Am I employed or unemployed?

[Givemegoodnews 9]

Here's the situation ,

For the past few years, Ive filed with the IRS for capital gains/losses from stock transactions. Im not considered a pattern trader, and for the past 2 years, Ive filed overall losses from these transactions.

In the original I-130 petition , Ive listed none for my employment the last 5 years

Im going to be having a joint sponsor for AOS. The issue is I too have to file an I864, I noticed that they require either tax returns or an explanation of why one didnt file with the IRS. Im worried that including my tax returns might make them think I was employed, and in the original I-130 I said I wasnt because I never had any earned income.

2011 and 2010 returns show a (-)income

thanks for any help you can provide

[Adriene H 89]

Maybe 'self-employed' would work? I'm not too familiar with that kind of stuff. Best of luck ...

[Givemegoodnews 9]

well theres two issues with that ,

technically im not a pattern trader as defined by the securities and exchange commission , and as i said earlier in the I-130 I put none for employment as I had no earned income

[aaron2020 11,651]

Here's the situation ,

For the past few years, Ive filed with the IRS for capital gains/losses from stock transactions. Im not considered a pattern trader, and for the past 2 years, Ive filed overall losses from these transactions.

In the original I-130 petition , Ive listed none for my employment the last 5 years

Im going to be having a joint sponsor for AOS. The issue is I too have to file an I864, I noticed that they require either tax returns or an explanation of why one didnt file with the IRS. Im worried that including my tax returns might make them think I was employed, and in the original I-130 I said I wasnt because I never had any earned income.

2011 and 2010 returns show a (-)income

thanks for any help you can provide

You are not self-employed. You make no Social Security or any other payroll taxes.

You are an investor. Generally, you pay capital gains - either long term or short term. Generally, you don't pay ordinary income unless you are getting interests or non-qualified dividends.

I am self-employed. I pay Social Security and other payroll taxes. My earnings are ordinary income.

Unemployed investors do not have earned incomes. Generally, the profits and losses from your investments are unearned income.

With the I-864, you are required to include your tax returns. Filing a tax return does mean that someone is employed. An unemployed person with other income must still file tax returns. At some point, even a non-tax expert at the NVC or the US Embassy will figure this out.

You are unemployed.

---------

P.S. Since your income is negative, you will either need to rely on having 3x or 5x the 125% poverty level or have a Joint Sponsor who does meet the 125% poverty level to petition for whomever you have filed for. In either cases, you are not relying on your reported income to petition your family member. The NVC will only check to see that you have complied with your civic duties to file your tax returns. It will be your proof of other assets or your Joint Sponsor's tax return that will be important.

Edited June 23, 2012 by aaron2020

[Givemegoodnews 9]

You are not self-employed. You make no Social Security or any other payroll taxes.

You are an investor. Generally, you pay capital gains - either long term or short term. Generally, you don't pay ordinary income unless you are getting interests or non-qualified dividends.

I am self-employed. I pay Social Security and other payroll taxes. My earnings are ordinary income.

Unemployed investors do not have earned incomes. Generally, the profits and losses from your investments are unearned income.

With the I-864, you are required to include your tax returns. The NVC and the US Embassy will notice that your earned income is zero. Filing a tax return does mean that someone is employed, it only means that that person has income or losses that create taxable income.

You are unemployed.

Aaron thank you so much! ,

So there would be no issue if I write 'never employed' (Im a student) but still include my tax returns anyways ?

my capital gains/losses for the past 3 years are two negatives, and the 3rd year I had a gain of about 200 hundred bucks.

This would not cause me an issue considering I put none for employment the last 5 years on the original I-130 ?

thanks again for the help (and yes my father will be my joint sponsor, but I just didnt want any discrepancies on my I-864)

Edited June 23, 2012 by Givemegoodnews

[aaron2020 11,651]

Aaron thank you so much! ,

So there would be no issue if I write 'never employed' (Im a student) but still include my tax returns anyways ?

my capital gains/losses for the past 3 years are two negatives, and the 3rd year I had a gain of about 200 hundred bucks.

This would not cause me an issue considering I put none for employment the last 5 years on the original I-130 ?

thanks again for the help (and yes my father will be my joint sponsor, but I just didnt want any discrepancies on my I-864)

Do not list yourself as unemployed. List yourself as a "student." You must include a complete copy of tax return or a tax transcript with the I-864 you will file as the petitioner.

Your father will file his own I-864 as the Joint Sponsor.

I don't understand or see why your father's tax return would create any discrepancies with your tax returns or the I-864 you will file. How does his numbers and assets impact you financially? It doesn't.

[Givemegoodnews 9]

hey thanks again

where would I put student , next to unemployed? (on the I 864)

I was just concerned that they mistaken stock transactions as self employment

Edited June 23, 2012 by Givemegoodnews

[aaron2020 11,651]

hey thanks again

where would I put student , next to unemployed? (on the I 864)

I was just concerned that they mistaken stock transactions as self employment

Read my post again. Didn't I say not to list yourself as unemployed? Take off the unemployed and write in student. Don't list as both unemployed and a student. Only list yourself as a student.

Read my post again. Didn't I say not to list yourself as unemployed? Take off the unemployed and write in student. Don't list yourself as both unemployed and a student. Only list yourself as a student.

[Givemegoodnews 9]

well see its not a write in field , its a selection of employed, self employed, unemployed ' since (date) ', and retired.

Im assuming that one of the 4 has to be selected as there is no other option.

Edited June 24, 2012 by Givemegoodnews