Obama Executive Privilege Asserted Over Fast And Furious Documents

[Karee 4,190]

The defense of the Obama administration on this subject is hilarious. I bet if Obama shot the agent himself, people here would still defend him.

[Ban Hammer 13,408]

Since we all know "more guns = less crime" how is it those who claim that the loudest don't view getting more guns into Mexico as a positive?

[SMOKE 1,426]

Since we all know "more guns = less crime" how is it those who claim that the loudest don't view getting more guns into Mexico as a positive?

So drug cartel soldiers in Mexico, to say nothing of baddies here in the USA, only have access to weapons Obama and company supply?

But the other argument, since it is sooooo important Fast and Furious weapons wound up as murder weapons, guns aren't responsible for the carnage their misuse inflicts. Right? Isn't that the other precious gun nut pearl of wisdom in the "more guns = less crime" argument?

are you seeing the differences in the questions you asked? i see them.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

readyforone brings up an excellent point and shows the beligerant hypocrisy from the pro-gun Right Wingers who've said for years now that guns don't kill people and now they're trying to blame the distribution of guns for the murder of a border patrolman.

Which is it? Guns kill people or they don't? If there was even an ounce of honest discussion coming from the pro-gun Right Wingers over this is that they would admit that drug cartels would not be inhibited from getting their steady supply of guns if this ATF scheme weren't in place. But since they're piling on the bullsh!t, they'll just keep lyin through sh!t-stained teeth and try to implicate that Obama himself pulled the trigger. These clowns have no conscience. They're out for Kenyan blood. What a pathetic display of desperation.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Mister Fancypants

[slim 1,530]

readyforone brings up an excellent point and shows the beligerant hypocrisy from the pro-gun Right Wingers who've said for years now that guns don't kill people and now they're trying to blame the distribution of guns for the murder of a border patrolman.

Which is it? Guns kill people or they don't? If there was even an ounce of honest discussion coming from the pro-gun Right Wingers over this is that they would admit that drug cartels would not be inhibited from getting their steady supply of guns if this ATF scheme weren't in place. But since they're piling on the bullsh!t, they'll just keep lyin through sh!t-stained teeth and try to implicate that Obama himself pulled the trigger. These clowns have no conscience. They're out for Kenyan blood. What a pathetic display of desperation.

More guns must = more guns on both sides. It can't be one-sided. If our government would arm the Mexican population as a whole, we'd see a lot less gun violence on our side of the border because they'd be otherwise engaged on their own.

The argument you're making is basically "Lets give all the guns to one group. See! Guns kill people! You guys are wrong and hypocrites. Guns are bad. Mmmkay?" Try giving guns to everyone and see what happens.

[SMOKE 1,426]

readyforone brings up an excellent point and shows the beligerant hypocrisy from the pro-gun Right Wingers who've said for years now that guns don't kill people and now they're trying to blame the distribution of guns for the murder of a border patrolman.

Which is it? Guns kill people or they don't? If there was even an ounce of honest discussion coming from the pro-gun Right Wingers over this is that they would admit that drug cartels would not be inhibited from getting their steady supply of guns if this ATF scheme weren't in place. But since they're piling on the bullsh!t, they'll just keep lyin through sh!t-stained teeth and try to implicate that Obama himself pulled the trigger. These clowns have no conscience. They're out for Kenyan blood. What a pathetic display of desperation.

its a good point if a anti-constitutional rights left wing nutjob refuses to pull their head out and reaches an absurd connection between the two examples being used. there is a huge difference between a drug cartel obtaining weapons thru illegal channels and the US government purposely running an operation to put weapons into their hands without tracking them.

Edited June 22, 2012 by SMOKE

[slim 1,530]

Some of these drug cartels have the income of countries with small GDPs. It's silly to say they wouldn't acquire the weaponry they desired without help from the US government. That's not the issue at all.

And that's why when Bush (and the CIA and whomever else before them) did it, it wasn't a big deal. They were specifically targeting individuals for prosecution. They did so as part of anti-drug and anti-violence investigations and the motivation for it was to track down the big guys and give a big score to the BATFE, DEA, FBI, etc.

When Obama did it, they did so not to investigate crime, but to establish a reason for banning small arms sales along the border states and to close the gun show loophole. Had this story not broken, it's very likely we'd see strong(er) restrictions along our Southern border and mandatory background checks for ALL firearms sales at gun shows.

Don't believe me? Why were they showing pictures of seized arms "from gun shows" that included rocket launchers, hand grenades, and automatic weapons - all things not readily available to the average gun show attendee. Those things weren't purchased at shows in AZ. But yet when you see them on the nightly news... they're scary. And we have to do something about it!

[james&olya 1,121]

There are a lot of perceptions out there about this President. That doesn't make any of them true or valid. Him wanting to take your gun away is one of those. Him having been born in Kenya is another on the same level of stupidity. If you maintain such perceptions, that says more about you than it does about the President. Sorry but this is nutter stuff. Get tin foil. Plenty of it.

[james&olya 1,121]

oh idk. but, i think those 'who claim that the loudest' are taking for granted people aren't stupid. it would take a total moron not to realize they're talking about guns legally being in the hands of responsible citizens, and not purposely put in the hands of drug cartel soldiers.

So all those guns sold at gun shows only go into the hands of "responsible citizens"? Right!

[james&olya 1,121]

readyforone brings up an excellent point and shows the beligerant hypocrisy from the pro-gun Right Wingers who've said for years now that guns don't kill people and now they're trying to blame the distribution of guns for the murder of a border patrolman.

Which is it? Guns kill people or they don't? If there was even an ounce of honest discussion coming from the pro-gun Right Wingers over this is that they would admit that drug cartels would not be inhibited from getting their steady supply of guns if this ATF scheme weren't in place. But since they're piling on the bullsh!t, they'll just keep lyin through sh!t-stained teeth and try to implicate that Obama himself pulled the trigger. These clowns have no conscience. They're out for Kenyan blood. What a pathetic display of desperation.

[james&olya 1,121]

Don't believe me? Why were they showing pictures of seized arms "from gun shows" that included rocket launchers, hand grenades, and automatic weapons - all things not readily available to the average gun show attendee. Those things weren't purchased at shows in AZ. But yet when you see them on the nightly news... they're scary. And we have to do something about it!

But isn't it your position that the 2nd amendment right to bear 'arms' is an absolute one and as such should include all weapons of modern warfare? You have said pretty much that in the past, even refusing to exclude small tactical nuclear weapons! Is that still where you would draw the line?

[SMOKE 1,426]

So all those guns sold at gun shows only go into the hands of "responsible citizens"? Right!

if its sold by a vendor at the show: yes. they are required to do backround checks just like at a gun shop.

if its sold by an individual: idk its imposible to say. that sale would have all the regulation of buying in a mcdonalds parking lot off a craigslist add or a garage sale.

yet another apples/oranges example. am i suprised.

[james&olya 1,121]

if its sold by a vendor at the show: yes. they are required to do backround checks just like at a gun shop.

if its sold by an individual: idk its imposible to say. that sale would have all the regulation of buying in a mcdonalds parking lot off a craigslist add or a garage sale.

yet another apples/oranges example. am i suprised.

"It would take a total moron not to realize they're talking about guns legally being in the hands of responsible citizens.."

YOU said it!

[SMOKE 1,426]

"It would take a total moron not to realize they're talking about guns legally being in the hands of responsible citizens.."

YOU said it!

yes I did. are you calling yourself a moron? or are you just so hell bent on denying peoples constitutional rights you refuse to use common sense when debating gun control? sense you are one of the preceeding, i'll explain it to you....please read slowly.....after the sale from a licenced arms dealer you can't rely on individual citizens to follow the same regulations as the arms dealer. if a gun is stolen in a break in, its highly unlikely the thief will follow the regulations either...got it now?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

if its sold by a vendor at the show: yes. they are required to do backround checks just like at a gun shop.

You must have missed out on the undercover investigations that showed that licensed dealers at gun shows are quite happy to support straw men purchases of firearms. You know, we can have discussions about the wisdom of infinite proliferation of firearms but we ought to at least acknowledge the facts that are on the table. And those facts clearly paint a different picture than the one you are trying to paint here.