Philippine debt

[Ilovemypinoy 9]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can give my advice on the local Philippine laws or whom I should speak with. My fiancé has some loan debt, I believe from a previous business venture? I don't know if he is the only signer on the debt. I have enough to cover this but I'd prefer to wait for him to pay off the debt and help him if needed.

I am unclear if I am obligated to cover the debt as a sponsor? I talked to an immigration attorney and he didn't think so. Regardless, if my honey owes the money then we should of course do the right thing. I am concerned that if we pay it off, I don't know if this will resolve the issue or if there are corrupt collectors that will claim it is owed? I am unfamiliar with the Philippine law on this matter (or most matters). The immigration attorney suggested I speak to an attorney in the Philippines. I have no idea whom I should speak to in the Philippines? Also I am wondering if my fiancé will have any trouble traveling to/ from the Philippines if the debt collectors file suit before it is paid off? Also if they were to take legal action, would that affect his credit in US?

Has anyone had experience with debts owed in the Philippines? Any suggestions? Thanks much!

[LSnBigBear 61]

Phiippines has debtors jail so he must be careful. I am not sure as to the amount or whom he owes the money to. However in the RP one has to be very careful as the interest is high enough as is for a bank loan. I had an American friend that got behind on payments to a bank and they worked it out with him so he was fine. I know of local filipinos that were not worked with as easily on debt.

As for speaking with an Attorney.. They will charge him a nice fee just to tell him to pay his debts before leaving..

I dealt with many Attorneys during my business tenures in the RP and found them very unhelpful. I even golfed with two of them.. Laws are common sense is how I look at it. And in the RP they will use common sense and just tell you to pay the debts to clear his name before he tries to depart. He could be blacklisted from traveling if his debt is high enough or if his creditors gets wind he is leaving or marrying a foreigner. BTW, you as his fiancee and foreigner should never never EVER get involved in his debt. Reason is that the entire game changes when they know their fellow countrymen is involved with a foreigner... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$... A lot of Dollars go up... Trust me I have seen myself different pricing being charged for leases and services just because they know the person is involved with foreigner.... Because afterall in their eyes we are all rich

Good luck

[rlogan 2,036]

I don't know if he is the only signer on the debt.

Huge. Red. Flag.

If you are being asked for money on a debt and the instrument is concealed from you - RUN the other direction. The FIRST thing you do is look at the paperwork. If it isn't shown to you then all you know is that this is bad news way beyond just owing money.

[LSnBigBear 61]

Huge. Red. Flag.

If you are being asked for money on a debt and the instrument is concealed from you - RUN the other direction. The FIRST thing you do is look at the paperwork. If it isn't shown to you then all you know is that this is bad news way beyond just owing money.

I can say that if he is not disclosing it all you may want to push him more into 100% total disclosure... My fiancee knows exactly how my finances are. I sent her a spreadsheet as well to review our budget so she knows what she has when she gets here.

GOod luck

[Ilovemypinoy 9]

Thanks BigBear! Yes he disclosed, I just haven't asked for many details. He immediately brought it up as an issue when I asked him if he wanted to be together in the states. He never asked me to pay for his debt, just voiced concerns of starting a life here when he still had a debt to resolve in the Philippines. To be honest, it is relatively small to me and I could easily pay it off without hardship. It's just been lately I've been thinking it would be nice for him to start over here without too much stress but I will leave it to him to resolve. He's a good, hard working man and I know this since we we've worked together in the past. Thus it shouldn't take him long once he gets paid a US salary. I'm in finance for a living and went to school for it, I think the spreadsheet is a great idea. Thanks for the tip!

rlogan, He mentioned it as a family business venture. That is why I assume he may have another family member signed on the debt. I never asked him. I care very much for his family as well and if they are also in debt then even more reason to resolve it.

I must've written this all wrong!! I know fiance is not scamming me in the least, I am only worried about legal obligations and the creditors coming after him or myself. If it is this complicated that they can charge high interest, debtors jail, etc then I will just ask him to prioritize paying it off.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I know fiance is not scamming me in the least,

First warning sign...

Take off the blinders and ask enough questions so that you fully understand what the debt obligation is. If it is a loan, there will be something in writing and ask to see a copy of the note, the last statement, the loan papers, or the judgement. No paperwork, no obligation. If the loan is legit, and it is in default, then he may not be able to leave the country until it is settled.

[Bron Chase 1]

First warning sign...

Take off the blinders and ask enough questions so that you fully understand what the debt obligation is. If it is a loan, there will be something in writing and ask to see a copy of the note, the last statement, the loan papers, or the judgement. No paperwork, no obligation. If the loan is legit, and it is in default, then he may not be able to leave the country until it is settled.

This is a very interesting topic and one that I've often wondered about. My wife has a couple of credit cards with relatively small balances on them here in Phils. We plan to move to the US by early next year and she tells me her intention is to keep making the payments on her cards from the US. Do they let people just leave the country for emigration purposes when they have credit card debt? How would anyone ever know until it's too late and she's already in the US? I didn't know if they did some sort of check on people trying to leave the country or what. If it's a problem I'll just pay off the cards before we leave, but she insists on owning the responsibility for the cards if possible. Thoughts?

- Bron (Makati)

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

This is a very interesting topic and one that I've often wondered about. My wife has a couple of credit cards with relatively small balances on them here in Phils. We plan to move to the US by early next year and she tells me her intention is to keep making the payments on her cards from the US. Do they let people just leave the country for emigration purposes when they have credit card debt? How would anyone ever know until it's too late and she's already in the US? I didn't know if they did some sort of check on people trying to leave the country or what. If it's a problem I'll just pay off the cards before we leave, but she insists on owning the responsibility for the cards if possible. Thoughts?

- Bron (Makati)

If there is a pending action against you, then there could be a hold put on your ability to leave the country. However, if you are current with all your obligations, then no problems.

Edited June 20, 2012 by ☼

[Caryh 5,206]

My wife ran a loan business in the Philippines. Those that did not pay their loans and refused to make arrangements to pay did get cases filed on them. Once they found the person who owed the debt, they could have the police arrest them. I would assume any case the police could make an arrest on would show up on the NBI report. There were costs involved to the loan firm for all this, as the courts don't work for free and neither do the police, so it was only used when no other option was available. Mostly they just continued to try to get the debt paid or some form of collateral they could sell if the customer could never make good on the debt. Digital cameras, TV's, scooters, high end cell phones, were constantly be held when people didn't pay.

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

My wife ran a loan business in the Philippines. Those that did not pay their loans and refused to make arrangements to pay did get cases filed on them. Once they found the person who owed the debt, they could have the police arrest them. I would assume any case the police could make an arrest on would show up on the NBI report. There were costs involved to the loan firm for all this, as the courts don't work for free and neither do the police, so it was only used when no other option was available. Mostly they just continued to try to get the debt paid or some form of collateral they could sell if the customer could never make good on the debt. Digital cameras, TV's, scooters, high end cell phones, were constantly be held when people didn't pay.

Any person owing money is protected by the constitution of the Philippines. No person shall be imprisoned for non-payment of debt or poll tax. The creditor can always sue that person in court. But that person cannot go to jail.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Rocky_nBullwinkle

[Ilovemypinoy 9]

Thanks all for the tips! If a anyone has any more legal advice to offer, I appreciate the post in advance. If you would like to offer a personal opinion about my situation with my fiance, well then please note I'd prefer for you to keep it to yourself. My post may have misconstrued as a request for relationship advice, of which it is not.

[Caryh 5,206]

Any person owing money is protected by the constitution of the Philippines. No person shall be imprisoned for non-payment of debt or poll tax. The creditor can always sue that person in court. But that person cannot go to jail.

Works the same as hospitals being required to release people even if they haven't paid their bill yet. There's a lot of good words in the constitution of the Philippines, but the practice seems much different. Maybe its the difference between being detained and imprisoned so they can do it. I wouldn't put a lot a faith in words on paper for what cannot be done in the Philippines and what is commonly done in the Philippines.

Here's a good part of the Philippines constitution

Article II

Section 27. The State shall maintain honesty and integrity in the public service and take positive and effective measures against graft and corruption.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Works the same as hospitals being required to release people even if they haven't paid their bill yet. There's a lot of good words in the constitution of the Philippines, but the practice seems much different. Maybe its the difference between being detained and imprisoned so they can do it. I wouldn't put a lot a faith in words on paper for what cannot be done in the Philippines and what is commonly done in the Philippines.

Here's a good part of the Philippines constitution

Article II

Section 27. The State shall maintain honesty and integrity in the public service and take positive and effective measures against graft and corruption.

What is legal and what is common practice are two different things in the third world. Many of the provisional authorities are just thugs for hire, so if you want to teach somebody a lesson, I guess that is where you go. However, there are many aspiring law students that will take the indigent's case pro bono, for the beer and pizza, and for the experience.

[neodragon0l 6]

Since you can go to jail for debt, it is considered a criminal offense. If he has a pending case, I am positive there is a Hold Departure Order until the case is cleared. So I am not so sure if there is a case filed already. Some bank loans slap a case on the side to prevent you from running.

I work in the legal field in the U.S. and most of the Philippine laws are fashioned with the U.S. law, but it is interpreted differently partly because of corruption. If you hire an attorney in the Philippines, you don't hire them for how good they know the law, but fast they can get things done. Filipino lawyers do not discovery and most of the time do a "gung ho" approach. I am amazed by the fact that most the Filipino lawyers I met are not disbarred. Even though there is a precedence in law, Philippine laws do not follow precedence. You can "pay off" the judges and the clerks.

As for your fiance, follow the peoples' opinion and do not get into helping others with their debt. In the long run, you wake up one day and it becomes your debt. I am sure you love him, but you cannot guarantee anything nowadays. Sometimes we just have to be practical.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Since you can go to jail for debt,...

No you can't! Same as US. They can serve you, they can sue you in court, but they can't put you in jail for non-payment of debt.