Citizenship vs Permanent Residence

[JohnR! 5,495]

1340199115[/url]' post='5465510']

From Gegel's link it looks like it's limited to cases where a person naturalized through fraud (forgetting to mention their nazi past or sham marriages), in which case they shouldn't have had a green card in the first place.

That's pretty much the gist of it. You would need to screw up royally in order to qualify for loss of citizenship or LPR status. Naturally, a sham marriage would be grounds for loss of LPR status, but in fact, once a permanent GC is issued, your file is put to rest until such time (if) when you apply for citizenship. USCIS would only look into it otherwise, in connection with severe charges.

Having said all that, I think citizenship and affirming alliance to a country needs to be more than a pragmatic notion. It has to come from the heart and the mind. On a positive note while you're never mandated to make that call, it gives you the opportunity to make it at a time of your choosing.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Gegel

[jaycali 415]

That's pretty much the gist of it. You would need to screw up royally in order to qualify for loss of citizenship or LPR status. Naturally, a sham marriage would be grounds for loss of LPR status, but in fact, once a permanent GC is issued, your file is put to rest until such time (if) when you apply for citizenship. USCIS would only look into it otherwise, in connection with severe charges.Having said all that, I think citizenship and affirming alliance to a country needs to be more than a pragmatic notion. It has to come from the heart and the mind. On a positive note while you're never mandated to make that call, it gives you the opportunity to make it at a time of your choosing.

Well said. And I wouldn't think twice about it if it wasn't an automatic denunciation of my curent citizenship.

Edited June 20, 2012 by jaejayC

[UK_Fan 192]

What? So Green Card holder doesn't need to do jury duty?? or... we don't have a "privilege" of doing it...

You don't have the privilege of doing it

[jaycali 415]

You don't have the privilege of doing it

No jury duty privilege, no worldwide IRS privilege.. Lol..

[newlyweds2010 208]

No jury duty privilege, no worldwide IRS privilege.. Lol..

Yes worldwide IRS privilege, so long as you maintain LPR status. Of course, you can always give up your GC and any relationship with the IRS ends.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

The other tax concern that may become significant in the future in addition to inheriting foreign estates is the different way an LPR spouse of a US citizen is treated when the US citizen spouse dies ithan when both partners are US citizens. If you are both US citizens and one dies, the other receives right of survivor ship for the marital property and any tax concerns of the property are deferred until the death of the other spouse. Not so for a LPR. Now there are amount thresholds involved, but basically if the US citizen spouse dies the tax that is due on the estate is not deferre until the other spouse dies but becomes immediately due. That can have some serious implications if there is a good sized estate with stock portfolios and investments, especially, involved. It will mean that the remaining spouse will have to liquidate assets of the estate in order to pay the taxes - and in some cases may not be able to pay the taxes and have a sizeable tax debt.

The rationale, from my understanding, is because the IRS is concerned that the non-US spouse will pack up and go back to their original country, taking all of their assets with them so that when they die, the IRS looses out on their share. As citizens are supposed to file returns regardless of where they reside in the world, the IRS doesn't have the same concerns for citizen spouses. If you have - or plan to have - a sizable estate (and it can add up quickly) this may have implications for you in the future. It was definitely one of the factors that I considered when I decided to become a US citizen. The fact that Canada does recognize dual citizenship made it very easy. I don't know what I would have done if it would have meant giving up my Canadian citizenship, to be honest.

[StraightShooter 62]

The other tax concern that may become significant in the future in addition to inheriting foreign estates is the different way an LPR spouse of a US citizen is treated when the US citizen spouse dies ithan when both partners are US citizens. If you are both US citizens and one dies, the other receives right of survivor ship for the marital property and any tax concerns of the property are deferred until the death of the other spouse. Not so for a LPR. Now there are amount thresholds involved, but basically if the US citizen spouse dies the tax that is due on the estate is not deferre until the other spouse dies but becomes immediately due. That can have some serious implications if there is a good sized estate with stock portfolios and investments, especially, involved. It will mean that the remaining spouse will have to liquidate assets of the estate in order to pay the taxes - and in some cases may not be able to pay the taxes and have a sizeable tax debt.

The rationale, from my understanding, is because the IRS is concerned that the non-US spouse will pack up and go back to their original country, taking all of their assets with them so that when they die, the IRS looses out on their share. As citizens are supposed to file returns regardless of where they reside in the world, the IRS doesn't have the same concerns for citizen spouses. If you have - or plan to have - a sizable estate (and it can add up quickly) this may have implications for you in the future. It was definitely one of the factors that I considered when I decided to become a US citizen. The fact that Canada does recognize dual citizenship made it very easy. I don't know what I would have done if it would have meant giving up my Canadian citizenship, to be honest.

Now that is interesting. I can see where it could get really complicated if kids, stepkids or adopted children were involved as well. Thanks!

[Stuart and Thea 95]

I like the idea that if I become a citizen here, I don't have to keep renewing my green card, I have had enough paperwork thankyou! What if I find myself feeble and old and forgetful and just don't fill it in when Im in my 90s and then let my GC expire? Would I be deported? Also, having to pay taxes if my husband dies on his estate while I was grieving his loss would suck! Plus, having a say via a vote would be nice, if I plan to live here, I'd want that.

Mind you, estate issues as a citizen from foreign settlements could throw a wrench in that decision, I'll have to learn about those implications too. Not to mention being fettered for life by the IRS... I recall a story of an elderly Canadian woman who was being sought for tax evasion in the US because of not filing. She moved to Canada as a very young child, and had no idea she was still considered an american until she got her Canadian passport and tried to travel to the US... scary..

Also, there are places I'm not allowed to go. My son wanted to take a tour of a local dam, but as non citizens, we can't. He has to wait 6 years, and if he's still interested and has taken citizenship, we'll go then, but I kinda think he'll have outgrown the interest.

Edited June 22, 2012 by Stuart and Thea

[newlyweds2010 208]

I like the idea that if I become a citizen here, I don't have to keep renewing my green card, I have had enough paperwork thankyou! What if I find myself feeble and old and forgetful and just don't fill it in when Im in my 90s and then let my GC expire? Would I be deported? Also, having to pay taxes if my husband dies on his estate while I was grieving his loss would suck! Plus, having a say via a vote would be nice, if I plan to live here, I'd want that.

Mind you, estate issues as a citizen from foreign settlements could throw a wrench in that decision, I'll have to learn about those implications too. Not to mention being fettered for life by the IRS... I recall a story of an elderly Canadian woman who was being sought for tax evasion in the US because of not filing. She moved to Canada as a very young child, and had no idea she was still considered an american until she got her Canadian passport and tried to travel to the US... scary..

Also, there are places I'm not allowed to go. My son wanted to take a tour of a local dam, but as non citizens, we can't. He has to wait 6 years, and if he's still interested and has taken citizenship, we'll go then, but I kinda think he'll have outgrown the interest.

No, you wouldn't be deported. It's like if you let your passport expire, you wouldn't lose your citizenship for that. Simply you wouldn't be allowed to travel abroad and reenter the country.

[N M 96]

What about owning guns? Is that only a USC right?

Most LPR's can own a gun. But there are some exceptions. I understand that Missouri is one state that only gives permits to citizens - not LPRs.

[Boiler 45,557]

I know a Canadian who has been a PR for at least 20 year. He has not naturalised due to tax, but I think his situation is unusual. He is very wealthy.

[fantonledzepp 159]

Most LPR's can own a gun. But there are some exceptions. I understand that Missouri is one state that only gives permits to citizens - not LPRs.

Every state is different...

[N M 96]

Some disadvantages in remaining an LPR include tax implications with regard to out-of-country inheritances, etc.

I also have a vague recollection of things like the death of the USC spouse and social security benefits. (Sorry I can't be more specific. I'd saved all the data on my desktop and the motherboard just fried. )

And if you ever move back home with US citizenship status then you will enjoy a lifetime of reporting to the IRS.

Nope. Makes no difference.

As long as the deceased person was not a U.S. citizen, or U.S. resident for tax purposes, and as long as the asset being inherited was not located in the U.S. at the time of death (say a vacation home in Florida) then an inheritance from someone living back home is not taxable in the U.S. - whether you happen to be a USC or an LPR.

http://library.findl...n/1/130523.html

Edited June 23, 2012 by N M

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I'll probably miss some stuff, but this is off the top of my head. Bear in mind that this applies only to US citizens and LPR's living primarily in the US. This isn't a comparison of a US citizen living in the US with a Norwegian citizen living in Norway.

Citizenship Advantages:

• Eligible to vote.
  
• Can pass US citizenship to children.
  
• Can hold public office in most jurisdictions.
  
• Can remain outside the US as long as they like.
  
• No wait for visa numbers when submitting immigration petitions for certain immediate relatives.
  
• Cannot be deported unless their citizenship is revoked. Citizenship can't be revoked if they are US citizens by birth.
  
• Can receive high level security clearance required for some jobs.
  
• Eligible to travel to some countries without a visa.
  
• Tax liability on inheritance can be deferred.
  

Citizenship Disadvantages:

• Jury duty.
  
• Subject to US taxes regardless where in the world they live.
  
• Can be prosecuted in the US for some crimes committed abroad.
  
• Can be prosecuted, sentenced, and executed for treason.
  
• You might lose citizenship in your home country, which might mean losing voting, travel, and property rights.
  
• You might be forbidden from serving in the military of your home country.
  

Permanent Resident Advantages:

• No jury duty.
  
• May be eligible to travel to some countries without a visa, depending on their country of citizenship.
  
• Retain all rights of citizenship in their home country, including voting and property rights.
  

Permanent Resident Disadvantages:

• Can't vote.
  
• Can't pass US citizenship to children unless they're born in the US.
  
• Can't hold public office in most jurisdictions.
  
• Can be deported if they become inadmissible (criminal charges, public charge, etc.).
  
• Can lose status if they remain outside the US too long.
  
• Must report their current address to USCIS.
  
• Must wait for visa number for any immigration petition they file.
  
• Can be prosecuted, sentenced, and executed for espionage.
  
• Cannot receive high level security clearance required for some jobs.
  
• Gun ownership rights may be restricted, depending on jurisdiction.
  
• Tax liability on inheritance cannot be deferred. Inherited marital assets might have to be transferred through a qualified domestic trust.
  
• Permanent resident documents must be renewed every 10 years.
  

[dandk 72]

[*]Can receive high level security clearance required for some jobs.

By far is the biggest advantage for me. At the time when bidding for normal civilian projects are scarce due to the current state of our economy, but projects with security clearance from DISCO or DOD are readily available. In addition, security clearance projects are paid handsomely higher.