question about Affidavit of support - no paystubs

[Saylin 1,605]

Don't assume that all embassies and consulates act the same. Manila can be one of the pickier places.

The OP is asking how to verify current and continuing income. Can't just take a sponsor's word for it.

Some sort of proof of income claim is going to be needed. $150K was last year. What is needed is assurance of what is being earned presently.

Statements from clients and bank statements showing corresponding deposits sound like the only thing available to support the income claim.

Bad advice here. Sponsor has to prove income claim.

The question the OP posed was about the AOS package and the NVC stage and I was answering to that. I know consulates/embassies differ and some are pickier than others, but the OP didn't ask about the interview part.

Just going to second these responses. This appears to be a currently self-employed sponsor. Self employment income is not "income" in this context, until it is reported on an income tax return. If an "employed" sponsor is available, that would be a better choice.

To Saylin.... All sponsors need to show evidence of current income. For the "employed" a current pay stub and/or an employer letter, is how this is generally done. Those with histories of good employment income often get by without providing this evidence but I would never advise anybody that providing it is "optional". Which option you choose is a choice but choose one.

Specifically, in this case, the sponsor's past tax returns are going to show them as employed by XYZ hospital but their affidavit will show them as self employed. It is possible that Manila will consider the "current" self employment income to be zero BECAUSE it has not yet appeared on a tax return. Business "revenue" is not the same as business "income". Income is the profit left over at the end of the year after subtracting the expenses from the total revenue. You could have a million or more in revenue and still have no "income".

Everywhere I've read in the I-864 instructions though states that pay stubs and employment letters (to prove current income) are just optional for the AOS package. Where in the instructions does it say it's required? Cause I'd like to read it.

[pushbrk 13,125]

The question the OP posed was about the AOS package and the NVC stage and I was answering to that. I know consulates/embassies differ and some are pickier than others, but the OP didn't ask about the interview part.

Everywhere I've read in the I-864 instructions though states that pay stubs and employment letters (to prove current income) are just optional for the AOS package. Where in the instructions does it say it's required? Cause I'd like to read it.

The lack of a specific requirement does not justify advising people something is optional. In many contexts, one might reasonably interpret lack of specific requirement to indicate "optional". Technically, evidence of current income is not mentioned in the instructions as a "requirement" but as a practical matter, it IS going to be required in nearly all cases where the income stream or source of that stream is not clearly stable over a significant period of time.

The issue in this case is the switch from employment to self employment. Self employment income is not documented with EITHER pay stubs or employer letters, and (with rare exception) MUST be documented on a tax return. That's why your response was not only misleading in the context of employment but totally irrelevant in the context of self employment. If this were the only potential joint sponsor available to the OP, since the work is essentially the same and significant business expenses are not common in the self employed nursing field, other forms of "revenue" verification MIGHT be accepted instead of waiting for next year's tax return to be filed, particularly if the income has been high and so is the "revenue".

If there's an employed sponsor available, that would be a better choice.

This sponsor is in a Catch 22. For the self employed, current income comes from line 22 of the most recently filed tax return, but that tax return, in this case, does not reflect the self employment income. So, the sponsor can't effectively even STATE a current income until they file their 2012 tax return. Again, pay stubs are irrelevant in this case, making whether they are required, irrelevant as well, making Saylin's comforting statement that pay stubs are optional, misleading AND irrelevant.

[jelnin08 0]

The lack of a specific requirement does not justify advising people something is optional. In many contexts, one might reasonably interpret lack of specific requirement to indicate "optional". Technically, evidence of current income is not mentioned in the instructions as a "requirement" but as a practical matter, it IS going to be required in nearly all cases where the income stream or source of that stream is not clearly stable over a significant period of time.

The issue in this case is the switch from employment to self employment. Self employment income is not documented with EITHER pay stubs or employer letters, and (with rare exception) MUST be documented on a tax return. That's why your response was not only misleading in the context of employment but totally irrelevant in the context of self employment. If this were the only potential joint sponsor available to the OP, since the work is essentially the same and significant business expenses are not common in the self employed nursing field, other forms of "revenue" verification MIGHT be accepted instead of waiting for next year's tax return to be filed, particularly if the income has been high and so is the "revenue".

If there's an employed sponsor available, that would be a better choice.

This sponsor is in a Catch 22. For the self employed, current income comes from line 22 of the most recently filed tax return, but that tax return, in this case, does not reflect the self employment income. So, the sponsor can't effectively even STATE a current income until they file their 2012 tax return. Again, pay stubs are irrelevant in this case, making whether they are required, irrelevant as well, making Saylin's comforting statement that pay stubs are optional, misleading AND irrelevant.

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THOSE WHO REPLIED HERE! appreciate it all.. i already talked to my aunt and she is willing to co sponsor provide her taxincome and recent paystubs in the hosp where she works... so heres again another question.. In the form I-864 part 1, is she gonna check letter E: i am the the 2nd of two joint sponsor and for my mom is. letter E: i am the 1st of 2 joint sponsor.. i include my mom since I lived with her(shes also going to fill up I-864A) ooorrr... can I just put my mom in I-864A contract between sponsor and household and Just put my AUnt the ONLY joint sponsor therefore she will check I-864 part 1 letter D. :help: ahh too many question soo sorry.. and also if my aunt has a joint income tax with her husband is going to submit also I-864A for her husband as well? whew! thanks a lot

[jelnin08 0]

The question the OP posed was about the AOS package and the NVC stage and I was answering to that. I know consulates/embassies differ and some are pickier than others, but the OP didn't ask about the interview part.

Everywhere I've read in the I-864 instructions though states that pay stubs and employment letters (to prove current income) are just optional for the AOS package. Where in the instructions does it say it's required? Cause I'd like to read it.

thank you saylin for helping i read it myself too.. its optional. it made me happy and relaxed for awhile hehe.. but yup just to make sure maybe ill just ask my aunt to co sponsor and give her latest paystubs. just incase it will be needed in the future interview or worse rfe

[jelnin08 0]

Don't assume that all embassies and consulates act the same. Manila can be one of the pickier places.

The OP is asking how to verify current and continuing income. Can't just take a sponsor's word for it.

Some sort of proof of income claim is going to be needed. $150K was last year. What is needed is assurance of what is being earned presently.

Statements from clients and bank statements showing corresponding deposits sound like the only thing available to support the income claim.

Bad advice here. Sponsor has to prove income claim.

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THOSE WHO REPLIED HERE! appreciate it all.. i already talked to my aunt and she is willing to co sponsor provide her taxincome and recent paystubs in the hosp where she works... so heres again another question.. In the form I-864 part 1, is she gonna check letter E: i am the the 2nd of two joint sponsor and for my mom is. letter E: i am the 1st of 2 joint sponsor.. i include my mom since I lived with her(shes also going to fill up I-864A) ooorrr... can I just put my mom in I-864A contract between sponsor and household and Just put my AUnt the ONLY joint sponsor therefore she will check I-864 part 1 letter D. :help: ahh too many question soo sorry.. and also if my aunt has a joint income tax with her husband is going to submit also I-864A for her husband as well? whew! thanks a lot

She should be ok, because they only ask for the last tax transcript, however, as someone pointed out some consulates may be more demanding. In this case, have her send you her last bank statements, if she can't produce pay stubs.

I hope it all works out for you!

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THOSE WHO REPLIED HERE! appreciate it all.. i already talked to my aunt and she is willing to co sponsor provide her taxincome and recent paystubs in the hosp where she works... so heres again another question.. In the form I-864 part 1, is she gonna check letter E: i am the the 2nd of two joint sponsor and for my mom is. letter E: i am the 1st of 2 joint sponsor.. i include my mom since I lived with her(shes also going to fill up I-864A) ooorrr... can I just put my mom in I-864A contract between sponsor and household and Just put my AUnt the ONLY joint sponsor therefore she will check I-864 part 1 letter D. :help: ahh too many question soo sorry.. and also if my aunt has a joint income tax with her husband is going to submit also I-864A for her husband as well? whew! thanks a lot

[Anh map 2,098]

The question the OP posed was about the AOS package and the NVC stage and I was answering to that. I know consulates/embassies differ and some are pickier than others, but the OP didn't ask about the interview part.

Everywhere I've read in the I-864 instructions though states that pay stubs and employment letters (to prove current income) are just optional for the AOS package. Where in the instructions does it say it's required? Cause I'd like to read it.

The whole petition process flows through to the embassy/consulate where the ultimate decision is made. Barely clearing a hurdle and thinking that one is prepared for the next step doesn't make sense to me. And doesn't aid a member in preparation.

I agree that the form instructions do not address the realities the face applicants/interviewees at the consulate level. From first hand experience I know that meeting the "letter of the law" isn't nearly enough in HCMC. From reading here on VJ I've seen where other embassies/consulates have higher expectations that are not addressed on the forms. In fact the VJ Guides are written to suggest that members be "well prepared" beyond the minimums.

One of the truest things I've ever been told on VJ is to "think like a CO." Anticipating potential problems and presenting the strongest possible case is a good recipe for visa success. Better to be over prepared and leave with approval, than come up a bit short and have the resulting stress and disappointment.

[pushbrk 13,125]

THANK YOU SO MUCH TO THOSE WHO REPLIED HERE! appreciate it all.. i already talked to my aunt and she is willing to co sponsor provide her taxincome and recent paystubs in the hosp where she works... so heres again another question.. In the form I-864 part 1, is she gonna check letter E: i am the the 2nd of two joint sponsor and for my mom is. letter E: i am the 1st of 2 joint sponsor.. i include my mom since I lived with her(shes also going to fill up I-864A) ooorrr... can I just put my mom in I-864A contract between sponsor and household and Just put my AUnt the ONLY joint sponsor therefore she will check I-864 part 1 letter D. :help: ahh too many question soo sorry.. and also if my aunt has a joint income tax with her husband is going to submit also I-864A for her husband as well? whew! thanks a lot

I would just have your aunt but the only joint sponsor. There's no need for two. If your aunt's personal income is sufficient, provide full tax returns with W2 forms instead of tax transcripts and then state only her personal income from the W2 forms. Then no need for an I-864a from her husband.

[pushbrk 13,125]

The whole petition process flows through to the embassy/consulate where the ultimate decision is made. Barely clearing a hurdle and thinking that one is prepared for the next step doesn't make sense to me. And doesn't aid a member in preparation.

I agree that the form instructions do not address the realities the face applicants/interviewees at the consulate level. From first hand experience I know that meeting the "letter of the law" isn't nearly enough in HCMC. From reading here on VJ I've seen where other embassies/consulates have higher expectations that are not addressed on the forms. In fact the VJ Guides are written to suggest that members be "well prepared" beyond the minimums.

One of the truest things I've ever been told on VJ is to "think like a CO." Anticipating potential problems and presenting the strongest possible case is a good recipe for visa success. Better to be over prepared and leave with approval, than come up a bit short and have the resulting stress and disappointment.

I get that some people are more cautious than others but the issue of pay stubs was not relevant to the circumstances of the sponsor being asked about in the opening post. Affidavits of support can get pretty complicated when a sponsor is self employed and are even more complicated for those who recently became self employed. When answering I-864 related questions, it is critical that one fully understands the circumstances and how they impact the answer. Otherwise, we mislead, give false assurance or worse.

I remember a case from some time ago where the petitioner asked for advice early in the process, in September, long before the petition was approved. He was advised wisely to make sure his own self employment showed a qualifying income on the next tax return. He didn't follow that advice and then, months later was still being turned down by seemingly potential joint sponsors and having other willing ones turn out not to be qualified themselves.

This OP has a qualified relative with a good employee income. My advice is keep it simple and use that willing and qualified relative as the joint sponsor.

Edited June 15, 2012 by pushbrk