What if we don't follow traditions?

[unlockingsky 94]

I wouldn't be able to do DCF because, though I've been living here for about two years, it's been on tourist visas. I don't have any kind of formal work contract that gives me residence status.

would your passport stamps prove that you had been in the country for 2 years?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

would your passport stamps prove that you had been in the country for 2 years?

Most consulates require the petitioner to have resident status in the country before they'll accept a petition from them. Someone with visitor status would usually be required to file with USCIS in the United States.

Anyway, DCF is only possible in countries that have a USCIS field office. Vietnam no longer does.

[eric n tessa 1]

I'm an American man and I live in Hanoi with my Vietnamese girlfriend (she's from Hanoi). We're both 31, college graduates, have a lot of different work experience, and she's completely fluent in English. We've been together for a year and a half, so I'm not too concerned about having difficulty proving the validity of our relationship. However, neither of us is traditional AT ALL and we want to forego all ceremonies, wedding parties, etc. and just get married here in Hanoi. Will this be a problem for her at the HCMC Consulate? We have plenty of photos together, have traveled together a lot, etc., but I'm concerned that if we just do a bare bones wedding, it'll be deemed suspect. We plan on having no party, no traditional ceremony, nothing. Just the paperwork and formalities and calling it a day. Our engagement was simple, too; simple in that it was us getting engaged with no party or anything else. We just want to get married and immediately start the process of getting her to the U.S.

What do you think? Thanks.

just a thought, what if you return to the states and fill a K-1 fiancee visa,

[David-Hien 11]

I'm an American man and I live in Hanoi with my Vietnamese girlfriend (she's from Hanoi). We're both 31, college graduates, have a lot of different work experience, and she's completely fluent in English. We've been together for a year and a half, so I'm not too concerned about having difficulty proving the validity of our relationship. However, neither of us is traditional AT ALL and we want to forego all ceremonies, wedding parties, etc. and just get married here in Hanoi. Will this be a problem for her at the HCMC Consulate? We have plenty of photos together, have traveled together a lot, etc., but I'm concerned that if we just do a bare bones wedding, it'll be deemed suspect. We plan on having no party, no traditional ceremony, nothing. Just the paperwork and formalities and calling it a day. Our engagement was simple, too; simple in that it was us getting engaged with no party or anything else. We just want to get married and immediately start the process of getting her to the U.S.

What do you think? Thanks.

You will be OK.

You have 1 year and a half for the time of acquaintance and friendship. That will be the most powerful evidence.

I never had any engagement party or ceremony, but I passed on the first time of interview. My husband never stayed in VN like you did.

[David-Hien 11]

would your passport stamps prove that you had been in the country for 2 years?

He can require for information from the US. Under the Act of Freedom Information, the US citizens can require for their information such as the travel date and country they visited. Where to ask? He can search on internet.

However, he must file tax to have tax return. This is the most important part for the sponsor to prove his/her financial ability.

Edited June 14, 2012 by David-Hien

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

He can require for information from the US. Under the Act of Freedom Information, the US citizens can require for their information such as the travel date and country they visited. Where to ask? He can search on internet.

However, he must file tax to have tax return. This is the most important part for the sponsor to prove his/her financial ability.

The US generally doesn't restrict US citizens from leaving the US unless there is a travel hold on that citizen. Travel holds are usually placed on people who have criminal charges pending, or who have publicly enforceable debt (taxes, child support, etc.). Everyone else is free to leave the US whenever they want. Carriers have a responsibility for clearing passengers for travel before issuing a boarding pass. DHS is given a manifest of departing passengers, but they don't always keep that information for departing US citizens for long term storage.

What I'm saying is that the US government might have a record of the times he entered the US, but they might not have a record of the times he left. An FOIA request might not produce anything. Even if it did, proof that he was outside the US for a specific period of time is not proof that he was in Vietnam for that entire period of time.

Anyway, the question is moot. He'd need more than just proof he was in Vietnam for the required length of time. He'd also need proof that he had resident status there, and they will only accept a DCF filed petition if there is a USCIS field office in the country. They closed the USCIS field office in Vietnam a couple of years ago.

[ScottThuy 140]

baiting post removed...

[aloram 1]

Thanks for all the input. Let me respond by telling you some basics of our situation:

1. We're both very private people. She has very few friends, and though I have many friends in the U.S., I don't really have any here. I've spent most of my time here teaching English or spending time with my fiancee. I've taught mostly private classes, so I haven't met too many other expats.

2. Her family has never wanted to meet me because I'm American (aka NOT Vietnamese). Will they be OK with us getting married and going to the U.S.? No way. But I don't see how this is some insurmountable hurdle or anything. I mean, I live in Hanoi, a city the U.S. bombed as recently as 40 years ago. Surely the consulate must know that some Vietnamese families aren't exactly cool with their daughters marrying Americans.

I don't really see how we could have a big party or anything, considering these circumstances. I'm not staging a phony party with people we don't know, or anything else that's fake. While I'd be open to doing something to celebrate our wedding, I don't see how the more traditional routes are possible considering these circumstances. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

Edited June 15, 2012 by aloram

[aloram 1]

As far as passport evidence of being in Vietnam for most of the last two years, what I have are all my visas and all the entry and exit stamps. Since June 17, 2010, I've spent almost all my time in Vietnam. Half my trips to neighboring countries were with my fiancee (we have the flight info as proof) and I took two short trips to visit my family in the U.S. No, I don't have resident status.

[aloram 1]

Sorry for neglecting this question: Yes, I've filed tax returns. I fall way under the Foreign Income Exclusion limit, but above 125% of the poverty line. It seems that because I'm still living in Vietnam, I'll need to get a joint sponsor regardless.

[aloram 1]

Not sure how much it matters, but my fiancee came with me to the U.S. last year for a trip. She applied for a tourist visa and received a one year, multiple entry visa (!!!). She returned to Vietnam after a week and there were no issues. I'm not sure how much weight this will have as far as establishing her credibility as a person and our credibility as a couple.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Thanks for all the input. Let me respond by telling you some basics of our situation:

1. We're both very private people. She has very few friends, and though I have many friends in the U.S., I don't really have any here. I've spent most of my time here teaching English or spending time with my fiancee. I've taught mostly private classes, so I haven't met too many other expats.

2. Her family has never wanted to meet me because I'm American (aka NOT Vietnamese). Will they be OK with us getting married and going to the U.S.? No way. But I don't see how this is some insurmountable hurdle or anything. I mean, I live in Hanoi, a city the U.S. bombed as recently as 40 years ago. Surely the consulate must know that some Vietnamese families aren't exactly cool with their daughters marrying Americans.

I don't really see how we could have a big party or anything, considering these circumstances. I'm not staging a phony party with people we don't know, or anything else that's fake. While I'd be open to doing something to celebrate our wedding, I don't see how the more traditional routes are possible considering these circumstances. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks everyone.

Ok, here's the straight scoop...

There is a LOT of visa fraud in Vietnam. My guess is that it ranks in the top five countries worldwide for visa fraud. Sometimes the US citizen is in on the scam. Sometimes the US citizen is being duped by the cute young Vietnamese girl. Sometimes the beneficiary's family is in on it. Sometimes they totally disapprove of it. There are factors that are common in many of these fraud cases. The US consulate believes they've pinpointed many of these factors, and they're going to look for them.

One scenario that doesn't pass the smell test at the consulate is a couple who have some idea what the consulate wants to see, so they go through the motions to try to gather what they think they need. They have the requisite engagement ceremony, but they slap it together in a short period of time, often on the petitioner's first trip to Vietnam. They have a somewhat informal ceremony at the beneficiary's home, inviting only a handful of family members, and then have an engagement party that resembles more a casual dinner at a restaurant with a dozen family members and friends. They don't expend any more time, effort, or money than absolutely necessary since their main objective is to get a few pictures of a ceremony and a party.

Another scenario that raises suspicions is a beneficiary whose family either doesn't know or strongly disapproves of the relationship. It takes a very strong willed Vietnamese girl to risk being ostracized by her family over a relationship they don't approve of, and the consulate's first suspicion is going to be that she's got a really strong motive for doing this, and they ain't going to think that motive is love for the petitioner. They're going to think she's very ambitious, and will do anything - even cut herself off from her own family - to get what she wants. It is very un-Vietnamese for a Vietnamese girl to separate herself from her family. To the overwhelming majority of Vietnamese, family is everything.

The consulate understands about modern relationships. They just don't believe they ever happen in Vietnam. To the consulate, a legitimate relationship is one that a 90 year old Vietnamese grandmother would approve of.

The consulate won't buy the war sympathy angle. Yes, there are certainly people in Vietnam who still hold a grudge against Americans over the war. Those people are a lot more common in the part of the country you're in. The sentiments among most Vietnamese from the central region to the Mekong delta are the polar opposite. They suffered a helluva lot more at the hands of the communists than they did from the Americans. In the consulate's mind, a Vietnamese girl turning her back on her parents is almost unthinkable, and they are going to be highly suspicious of a girl who would do this.

[ScottThuy 140]

The funny thing is that there are few in HaNoi that want to move to the US to live.. Its not about any hatred.. its about the fact that they are happy with where they live... From my personal experience, those in HaNoi don't carry ill will against the US, it's more like why is she with a guy from the US when there are so many good VN guys here to choose from... if she marries you, then she won't be living close enough to take care of them when they are older... IMO it would be well worth the time for the two of you to start building a relationship between you and her family... when you marry a woman from VN you marry the whole family.. not just her... show them that you are a stand up guy, who loves thier daughter and has goals set and who can save money and things will work out... Get married there with them involved and file a CR1..

Don't go through any motions just to try to make the CO happy... it needs to be done to strenthen your relationship long term... no matter what you may think.. it will change when she gets here because things are so different here... she will need her family as a support mechanism emotionally down the road...

[phil09 8]

They have the requisite engagement ceremony, but they slap it together in a short period of time, often on the petitioner's first trip to Vietnam. They have a somewhat informal ceremony at the beneficiary's home, inviting only a handful of family members, and then have an engagement party that resembles more a casual dinner at a restaurant with a dozen family members and friends.

Jim, I mostly agree with what you said. However, the scenario above is exactly what a friend of mine did (he asked for my help in putting together his K-1 petition since his English wasn't good enough, that's how I know). He went back to VN for a visit in 2011 and met a girl. They fall in love. He goes back to VN a second time about 5 months later; they have an informal dinner with the girl's family, probably 20 people max. He comes back to the US and files the petition.

As I helped him put the package together, I told myself it was a trainwreck waiting to happen: literally the only evidence he had was a few photos from his first trip (fewer than 10), his airline tickets for both trips, about 5 months' worth of phone bills, and about 50 photos of his second trip.

His girlfriend was interviewed not too long ago and passed on the first try. I am delighted for them.

I concluded that Lady Luck plays a significant part in this process.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

We have been living together, but I actually didn't even mention that in my posting because I know it will have no bearing since it's not legal in the first place.

Ummm yes you did. You mentioned you've been living together for a year and a half in your OP...