What if we don't follow traditions?

[aloram 1]

I'm an American man and I live in Hanoi with my Vietnamese girlfriend (she's from Hanoi). We're both 31, college graduates, have a lot of different work experience, and she's completely fluent in English. We've been together for a year and a half, so I'm not too concerned about having difficulty proving the validity of our relationship. However, neither of us is traditional AT ALL and we want to forego all ceremonies, wedding parties, etc. and just get married here in Hanoi. Will this be a problem for her at the HCMC Consulate? We have plenty of photos together, have traveled together a lot, etc., but I'm concerned that if we just do a bare bones wedding, it'll be deemed suspect. We plan on having no party, no traditional ceremony, nothing. Just the paperwork and formalities and calling it a day. Our engagement was simple, too; simple in that it was us getting engaged with no party or anything else. We just want to get married and immediately start the process of getting her to the U.S.

What do you think? Thanks.

Edited June 12, 2012 by aloram

[JonnieK 0]

You've asked our opinions. Here's mine: You WILL FAIL. Why? Spend some time reading this forum extensively.

[ScottThuy 140]

You've asked our opinions. Here's mine: You WILL FAIL. Why? Spend some time reading this forum extensively.

What do you base the statement "You WILL FAIL" on?

He actually is in a better position than most when it comes to proving the relationship if they have ben living together for as long as he says... I wonder how the House book documents it since its actually against the law in VN for them to be living together... The only hurdle I really see aside from the house book is the having somewhere to stay and work etc in the US if he does a DCF... and thats not a big hurdle...

[quann 26]

be prepared to explain. but seeing that your gf is fluent in english, maybe the CO will think she doesn't follow the traditional archaic model of vietnamese courtship.

what is your situation in hanoi? and how rich is her family? the answers will clue you in on how CO will see your relationship as it ties into the no nonsense wedding...ie you're an out of work expat and her dad is an insanely rich commie, that would be bad.

[aloram 1]

We have been living together, but I actually didn't even mention that in my posting because I know it will have no bearing since it's not legal in the first place.

Her family is of average wealth. I've been teaching English in Hanoi for the last two years. Her family doesn't approve of her not being married at age 31, dating and living with an expat, etc. She really doesn't care and neither do I. I've never even met them and we're in the same city.

We're not going to lie or be dishonest with ourselves by having a big party and following traditions in that regard. We'd just fly to Bangkok to get married if that were the case; that way we could avoid this Vietnamese wedding issue. But that's not a good option for us right now.

She writes and speaks English better than most Americans. Honestly. My feeling is that her non-traditional attitude and sense of self will be really evident, so not having wedding and engagement parties will seem like the logical extensions of her personality that they are.

As far as DCF, based on my research DCF isn't possible in Vietnam anyway.

[ScottThuy 140]

Why do you say DCF isnt an option? other members did it there

[JonnieK 0]

We have been living together, but I actually didn't even mention that in my posting because I know it will have no bearing since it's not legal in the first place.

Her family is of average wealth. I've been teaching English in Hanoi for the last two years. Her family doesn't approve of her not being married at age 31, dating and living with an expat, etc. She really doesn't care and neither do I. I've never even met them and we're in the same city.

We're not going to lie or be dishonest with ourselves by having a big party and following traditions in that regard. We'd just fly to Bangkok to get married if that were the case; that way we could avoid this Vietnamese wedding issue. But that's not a good option for us right now.

She writes and speaks English better than most Americans. Honestly. My feeling is that her non-traditional attitude and sense of self will be really evident, so not having wedding and engagement parties will seem like the logical extensions of her personality that they are.

As far as DCF, based on my research DCF isn't possible in Vietnam anyway.

Dear OP,

Do you realize the US Consulate in Saigon does have employees who understand the Vietnamese traditional customs and WILL EXPECT people like you, petitioners and beneficiaries alike, to strictly abide them?

She (your wife/girlfriend/whatever you call her) might not care but they (the US Consulate officers) will and they do have the power to MAKE you 2 do the same, whether you 2 care to or not.

Start changing your and her attitude if you desire to put your hands on that Visa.

[JonnieK 0]

What do you base the statement "You WILL FAIL" on?

He actually is in a better position than most when it comes to proving the relationship if they have ben living together for as long as he says... I wonder how the House book documents it since its actually against the law in VN for them to be living together... The only hurdle I really see aside from the house book is the having somewhere to stay and work etc in the US if he does a DCF... and thats not a big hurdle...

Please see my post right above. Pay attention to what I highlighted in bold as part of the OP's post. With that kinda attitude, IMHO, I'd think it's a waste of time to input any further comment/thought towards the OP of this thread. I'm out.

Edited June 13, 2012 by JonnieK

[ScottThuy 140]

Please see my post right above. Pay attention to what I highlighted in bold as part of the OP's post. With that kinda attitude, IMHO, I'd think it's a waste of time to input any further comment/thought towards the OP of this thread. I'm out.

He said that after you made the comment...

[aloram 1]

FYI, I'm just going to ignore comments by JonnieK. I'm not going to lie and be untrue to myself to try to get a visa, nor am I going to encourage my fiancee to. Our relationship is legit, and I hope by being honest about everything we'll be successful.

I thought DCF wasn't an option in Vietnam, but I guess I was confused. I thought "There is no USCIS Overseas Service Center in Vietnam" meant I couldn't file directly here. I've maintained an address in the U.S. since I've been living in Hanoi (June 2010 until now); that's where my bank and credit card bills go. Do you think that'll be sufficient for the domicile requirements? Any other input would be appreciated. Thanks guys.

[aloram 1]

I wouldn't be able to do DCF because, though I've been living here for about two years, it's been on tourist visas. I don't have any kind of formal work contract that gives me residence status.

[jmhull 2]

I wouldn't be able to do DCF because, though I've been living here for about two years, it's been on tourist visas. I don't have any kind of formal work contract that gives me residence status.

Hi there -

DCF is not available in VN anymore since USCIS Office in HCMC ceased operation last year. Re: following Vietnamese traditions in wedding ceremonies, etc. we were kind of in the same situation with you. Given that we're still waiting for NOA2, i'd better not give any advice yet. However, I think the best policy, as always, is to be honest, and stay true to who you both are. It's always easy when it comes to having to explain why you have done something that you did, things that were true to what you wished to do the most. Honestly, at the moment we decided to get married, we didn't really know what kind of requirements there were with immigration, and so we just did what we wanted to. My husband and I, we both dislike ceremonial activities and formalities, thus try to avoid them as best as we can - there wasn't a specific moment when my husband proposed to me, nor do I have an engagement ring. Our wedding (15-minute ceremony + dinner reception) was super small and simple with about 30 members of both families (no friends). We also didn't have a second "wedding party" for my families and friends in VN when we came back. Rather we only had some small family drinks/dinners (of which we took pictures and documented them into our file).

The bottom line is, I think, it is NOT a huge minus (again, my personal judgement) if you don't do your wedding in the Vietnamese ways (I'm sure people working in the US Consulate in HCMC are aware of the change in lifestyles and choices of young Vietnamese nowadays) just for the sake of evidence for immigration. If your relationship is legit and true, there are tons of other ways for you both to prove it, easily. There are certain small, but could be important, things you might want to consider, though, such as you both spending time with each other's families. You said you haven't met her family at all even when you decided to get married (and you all live in the same city)? I'm not saying that you'll need to see her family before you decide to get married to her, but I think it is a natural desire for parents to want to meet, and get to know, the man/woman that their daughter/son is going to share their whole life with. Well, it again is a matter of personal preference, but I tend to think COs might want to question that, more than the way you organize your wedding ceremony.

Edited June 13, 2012 by jmhull

[dreamwarrior 0]

If by miracle they believe that your wife is nontraditional (more likely they will believe that you have been married once and just don't want to do the whole thing all over again), but they will not believe that her parents and family are. To not have a proper wedding and engagement is disrespectful to her family. It will be very easy for them to toss your application to the side. You don't need a 300 guest wedding, but at the very least a small party at a hotel with her parents (yours too preferably), her family and close friends, and your friends.

[Anh map 2,098]

I'm an American man and I live in Hanoi with my Vietnamese girlfriend (she's from Hanoi). We're both 31, college graduates, have a lot of different work experience, and she's completely fluent in English. We've been together for a year and a half, so I'm not too concerned about having difficulty proving the validity of our relationship. However, neither of us is traditional AT ALL and we want to forego all ceremonies, wedding parties, etc. and just get married here in Hanoi. Will this be a problem for her at the HCMC Consulate? We have plenty of photos together, have traveled together a lot, etc., but I'm concerned that if we just do a bare bones wedding, it'll be deemed suspect. We plan on having no party, no traditional ceremony, nothing. Just the paperwork and formalities and calling it a day. Our engagement was simple, too; simple in that it was us getting engaged with no party or anything else. We just want to get married and immediately start the process of getting her to the U.S.

What do you think? Thanks.

The ceremonies are huge at the Consulate. Not having one will likely take your petition from smooth sailing to the HCMC meat grinder and could add months to the whole ordeal.

Being an iconoclast just isn't worth it. You don't have to wear the traditional groom's garb. The "announcement" to family and friends is what is expected.

It's a great reason to have a party. Just loosen up a bit and make this part of your life easier.

The whole visa process is about looking at the big picture (getting the visa) and thinking like a CO. Why raise needless red flags?

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Yikes! You've been living and working in Vietnam for two years without a work permit? Have you been filing tax returns while you've been gone?

As jmhull noted, DCF is no longer possible in Vietnam, regardless of whether you have resident status or not. They closed the USCIS field office and moved those services to Bangkok.

Speaking of Bangkok, a Thai wedding wouldn't circumvent the issue at the consulate. She's still Vietnamese, and she'll still be interviewing at the consulate in HCMC. I sure hope she's not a communist party member. That would be a dead stop for getting a visa. If she's got close family members who are party members then you could get hung up in administrative processing for weeks while they investigate her and her family.

You get bonus points at the consulate for having a long relationship and living together in Vietnam. They'll deduct points for you living together illegally (she has to bring the Ho Khau to the interview), and you working illegally. They'll deduct major points for not following Vietnamese traditions. No formal engagement and no formal wedding smacks of a relationship that someone is trying to hide from her family or her family's friends. As far as the consulate is concerned, if her family doesn't accept it proudly then it ain't real.

A lot of us ended up doing things that, given our 'druthers, we wouldn't normally do, all because we're at the mercy of a US government bureaucrat who starts with the presumption that you're guilty, and isn't going to waste more than a few minutes giving you a chance to convince them otherwise. You have the benefit of being able to address some of this stuff before you send the petition. You should take advantage of it.