Before you permanently move to the US

[rocks 494]

Wow! So unreal how much it is changing! There was a chance my English hubby and I would have moved to the UK upon retirement, but obviously there is going to be a slim chance of that now even though his kids live there.

I do have a question though on this:

COUPLES LIVING TOGETHER OVERSEAS FOR FOUR YEARS OR MORE

We will abolish immediate settlement on arrival in the UK for the migrant spouse, civil partner, unmarried partner or same sex partner where a couple have been living together overseas for at least four years and require the migrant partner to complete five years’ probation in the UK (granted in two 30-month periods) before they can apply for settlement. In 2010, 2,055 such settlement visas were granted. It is unfair that a migrant partner who may never have been to the UK or made any tax or National Insurance contribution should get immediate settlement and full access to the welfare system.

So what is this saying - that BEFORE this new law they had immediate settlement and now they are abolishing it? But what throws me is the four year statement. So basically it does not matter if a couple has been married 10 or 20 years in the U.S., the spouse needs to live in the UK for five years to make sure it is a "geuine" relationship?

And obviously if someone were coming to England to retire and didn't have a job because they were, duh, retiriing, the spouse would have to have an unbelievable amount of savings brought with them to enter. I suppose this amount would be offset by the UK citizen's state pension and private pension and US social security and the spouse's US social security?

It's totally nuts isn't it?! Just when you thought you were done with the nightmares of USCIS, this pops up! I have been trying to figure out how to get around these rules but it is so complicated. If you aren't a male professional with a job already lined up or super rich, you're not going to be able to move. This has to be changed eventually but it will probably take years.

[Justine+David 218]

I had a hesitant thought to have David get a job offer (he is in the teaching profession), enter to get the stamp, going back to the US, and now that I would have the job authorization, apply for jobs and then getting a job and then David getting a job in that city (it'll be easier for him to get a job than me because I'm in a highly specialized nursing field)...but then again, probably not a good idea to ####### the school district that initially offered him a job, too shady, methinks.

They mentioned you being able to use 401(k) accounts that are accessible...in the US anyone can access their account, but if underage, take a 10% penalty hit. I wonder if that counts because by the time we'd move over, I'm pretty sure we'd have over that amount, the $100k; have about $25k in right now, although who knows what the economy will be like in the future anyway...

pretty tempted to say just no and not do it period (right after I spent all the time/frustration/class/IELTS/money to get the darn nursing license), but I know David wants the option to live in the UK during retirement years or at least 50/50 USA/UK and I can't say no to that. Of course, who knows what will happen in 10+ years with immigration laws...

[Elora & Rob 15]

sorry to be cheeky but can anybody sum this up for me.

I am moving to the US on a K1 visa. if myself and my wife wanted to move back to the UK for whatever reason and I did not have a job in place what would we need to do?

[Holly2234 66]

From what i understand, if you do not have a job, you need £62,000 in the bank in savings. About $100,000.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

There was an article in this week's Economist about this - apparently 58% of people 20-30 who have applied would not qualify under the proposes rules and 61% of Women of any age.

[NotworkSte 19]

Does anyone know if this will change the requirement for citizenship? ie Cindy and I are considering moving to the UK when my stepdaughter reaches college. The aim would be for C to get her citizenship as quickly as possible. Would be we need to wait out the 5 years, or will it still be the 3 year rule? Technically regardless of status, she will have been living there for the 3 years. If they change that link, I guess we could move to Ballymena and go the Irish citizenship first.

I did not see anything where the Government planned to change the 3 year rule, just wondered if anyone else did.

[Shari 6]

See my comments in blue:

I had a hesitant thought to have David get a job offer (he is in the teaching profession), enter to get the stamp, going back to the US, and now that I would have the job authorization, apply for jobs and then getting a job and then David getting a job in that city (it'll be easier for him to get a job than me because I'm in a highly specialized nursing field)...but then again, probably not a good idea to ####### the school district that initially offered him a job, too shady, methinks.

I could be wrong, but I think it said if you did NOT have the savings and you had a job lined up, you would have to work the job at LEAST 6 months. To me, this means the UK citizen would have to go over on his own and work for six months before he would bring his/her spouse over in order to qualify under the salary rule.

They mentioned you being able to use 401(k) accounts that are accessible...in the US anyone can access their account, but if underage, take a 10% penalty hit. I wonder if that counts because by the time we'd move over, I'm pretty sure we'd have over that amount, the $100k; have about $25k in right now, although who knows what the economy will be like in the future anyway...

Don't forget also, if you get into your 401(k) early not only are you paying a 10%, the U.S. will hit you with a 20% tax on that money. I have had this happen to me when hubby was laid off for a year and we had to get into our 401(k) a couple years ago. Basically you will end up with 70% of your money.

Let's hope this gets tweaked a little better for spouse's of UK citizens.

[Shari 6]

Does anyone know if this will change the requirement for citizenship? ie Cindy and I are considering moving to the UK when my stepdaughter reaches college. The aim would be for C to get her citizenship as quickly as possible. Would be we need to wait out the 5 years, or will it still be the 3 year rule? Technically regardless of status, she will have been living there for the 3 years. If they change that link, I guess we could move to Ballymena and go the Irish citizenship first.

I did not see anything where the Government planned to change the 3 year rule, just wondered if anyone else did.

I may be wrong, but I assume because she will have to live there 5 years before settlement, she could not become a citizen before those 5 years. Maybe someone else will post a more accurate answer. I just read the new rules hit and miss on some topics.

[Justine+David 218]

Shari, if the UKC is residing overseas and if they've had a stable job for 6 months meeting the requirements in the foreign country AND have a firm job offer starting within 3 months in the UK, it's okay.

My question is about the citizenship thing too now...is it 3 or 5 years?

the 401(k)s, I wonder if you have to actually cash it out though; if you could just leave it in, being available if you should need it.

Edited June 18, 2012 by Justine+David

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

My reading of it is that citizenship comes after 5 years

[Shari 6]

Shari, if the UKC is residing overseas and if they've had a stable job for 6 months meeting the requirements in the foreign country AND have a firm job offer starting within 3 months in the UK, it's okay.

Oh, okay. That is better then!

My question is about the citizenship thing too now...is it 3 or 5 years?

I am not sure. Wonder why that was not addressed in the new rules?

the 401(k)s, I wonder if you have to actually cash it out though; if you could just leave it in, being available if you should need it.

That would be great if you didn't have to cash out - hopefully it will work that way.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Does anyone know if this will change the requirement for citizenship? ie Cindy and I are considering moving to the UK when my stepdaughter reaches college. The aim would be for C to get her citizenship as quickly as possible. Would be we need to wait out the 5 years, or will it still be the 3 year rule? Technically regardless of status, she will have been living there for the 3 years. If they change that link, I guess we could move to Ballymena and go the Irish citizenship first.

I did not see anything where the Government planned to change the 3 year rule, just wondered if anyone else did.

There are no changes to the citizenship route yet. Naturally residency will have to be granted first.

I was told Saturday to expect the government to eventually go for tougher naturalization requirements (called "nationality" in the UK).

I presume you are originally from Northern Ireland or you wouldn't be talking about moving to Ballymena to attempt an EU entry. Because this route only works for those born on the island of Ireland. AND it doesn't work anymore if you are living in the North. You must be living in the Republic and working there. In other words, you must have exercised your treaty rights in order to claim them.

AND the British government is trying to quash the route permanently. Unfortunately there are recent Article 8 court decisions which could eliminate the ability of dual Irish/British citizens to utilize the EU route.

[NotworkSte 19]

There are no changes to the citizenship route yet. Naturally residency will have to be granted first.

I was told Saturday to expect the government to eventually go for tougher naturalization requirements (called "nationality" in the UK).

I presume you are originally from Northern Ireland or you wouldn't be talking about moving to Ballymena to attempt an EU entry. Because this route only works for those born on the island of Ireland. AND it doesn't work anymore if you are living in the North. You must be living in the Republic and working there. In other words, you must have exercised your treaty rights in order to claim them.

AND the British government is trying to quash the route permanently. Unfortunately there are recent Article 8 court decisions which could eliminate the ability of dual Irish/British citizens to utilize the EU route.

I was born in Northern Ireland - hence the thinking behind this.

As I understand it, the Irish legislation states "Island of Ireland" rather then "the State" for naturalising spouses. I have checked the legislation documents on the Naturalisation and Immigration website. "the State" is used as the wording when Naturalising by other methods.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000014

However this may not be up to date, if you have a source for the requirement if not living in the North, please share it.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Steve, I think we are talking about two different things. You're talking about Irish citizenship for your wife. I'm talking about you bringing her to the North. You can't bring her over on the EU route without first living in the Republic. If at all.

I'm at work and can't really dig out the link right now. But just last night I found the language on UKBA that talks about dual national Brits and the guidance for family entry via the EU path. If you have time to look there you will find what I am referring too.

[NotworkSte 19]

There may be some confusion, here is what I was thinking of doing

- Move my family back home to Northern Ireland, via British immigration rules

- Use the time in Northern Ireland to qualify her for Irish citizenship though the "Island of Ireland" wording on naturalisation requirements (since I have both British and Irish).

In reality, given the job situation, and what I do for a living, nowhere in Ireland is really going to suit anyway, much as I'd love to move home. If you do have any information to clarify for me, that would be appreciated.

Aaaand back on topic

There seems to be some confusion with our friends at UK Yankee as well on how the settlement changes affect naturalising as a British citizen. I placed a call with Borders agency.