Before you permanently move to the US

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Rebecca Jo - have you seen any explanations anywhere about why the Home Office did not want to offer the option of third party financial sponsorship?

Hi Lynne -

My apologies on being so long to return. My son (a university grad in 2011) just recently acquired his first permanent teaching job and moved to a city three hours south of us. It was a "whirlwind hire" and we've been absorbed with helping him relocate.

I thank you for coming into the thread. I really thought no one else read it anymore!

The best place to find explanations about the Rules is in the original Statement of Intent to the Family Migration Rules (presented by the Home Secretary to Parliament when the rules were "debated"). There are lots of links in this thread and it can be time consuming to re-trace them. Here's the link to the SoI again. I think it's a good one to bookmark for anyone with an interest in this topic:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/news/soi-fam-mig.pdf

Large file, I know. Also takes a bit of time to read. So for the purpose of answering your question, I went back to some recent communications I have in my personal archives. Quite simply, the Home Office doesn't like third-party support because it is "vulnerable to change in another person's circumstances OR in the sponsor or immigrant's relationship to them".

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

It was always our plan to move back to the UK eventually. The rules are more strict than they need to be, IMO, but they're not very different from what we'd assumed they would be before we began researching. Not fun, but hardly unexpected for us, so we're kind of just rolling with it and hoping it changes. If it doesn't, oh well.

What's making me a little worried is the anti-immigrant sentiment. As an example, my fiance mentioned to a friend that we'd pushed up our plans to move back to England after I'd had to visit a hospital while on vacation there and we had a real discussion about it. The friends response was that he was very much against immigrants coming to this country "for the benefits". I don't understand this mentality; I'll be paying taxes (and as I understand it, paying extra for NHS access until I'm a citizen) so it's not like I wouldn't be paying for it like everyone else. I can't imagine what I would be treated like by someone who is more vociferous in their opposition and who isn't a friend.

You and I are both American. Because of that, we've got a different societal perspective towards family than that of a British citizen. And that's because American society and law are structured differently towards the family than in the UK.

Does that sound nuts? It took me a length of time in my knowledge of life "over there" to realize the difference. Family units in the UK can be just as fractured as they are in the US. The difference between them and us (I believe anyway) is the view towards the protections of children. The view that "mum" is still very important to the development of a child. That society has a duty to step in and help families, especially where children are involved. And that strong family life is important to the country as a whole.

As such, British citizens have something we American's don't. They actually have a legal right to family life in the UK. It's enshrined in the EU directives and other British law.

Interesting to think about. And about what these rules really mean to UK families.

[Protocol417 161]

You and I are both American. Because of that, we've got a different societal perspective towards family than that of a British citizen. And that's because American society and law are structured differently towards the family than in the UK.

Does that sound nuts? It took me a length of time in my knowledge of life "over there" to realize the difference. Family units in the UK can be just as fractured as they are in the US. The difference between them and us (I believe anyway) is the view towards the protections of children. The view that "mum" is still very important to the development of a child. That society has a duty to step in and help families, especially where children are involved. And that strong family life is important to the country as a whole.

As such, British citizens have something we American's don't. They actually have a legal right to family life in the UK. It's enshrined in the EU directives and other British law.

Interesting to think about. And about what these rules really mean to UK families.

Thank you for that interesting perspective. My fiance is from one of those "fractured" families so that was an education (if you will) I haven't gotten. It does change the dynamic.

Going back and re-reading what I wrote, I should probably clarify that I was only speaking about my personal situation. It wasn't meant to belittle or dismiss anyones' concerns, and I guess it was spoken from more of a natural assumption of "red tape" than anything else. It certainly wasn't meant to justify the government's position, but I can see how it might have been read that way. Apologies for any confusion. I don't like it any more than anyone else, because we do want to move back someday and I really don't want to have to go through this all over again, but I've been a Navy brat since I was four years old so to me bureaucracy is just a fact of life. What I'm not used to is the assumption that I'm a moocher, especially when the very opposite is true, so being on the receiving end of that really took me aback.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Thank you for that interesting perspective. My fiance is from one of those "fractured" families so that was an education (if you will) I haven't gotten. It does change the dynamic.

Going back and re-reading what I wrote, I should probably clarify that I was only speaking about my personal situation. It wasn't meant to belittle or dismiss anyones' concerns, and I guess it was spoken from more of a natural assumption of "red tape" than anything else. It certainly wasn't meant to justify the government's position, but I can see how it might have been read that way. Apologies for any confusion. I don't like it any more than anyone else, because we do want to move back someday and I really don't want to have to go through this all over again, but I've been a Navy brat since I was four years old so to me bureaucracy is just a fact of life. What I'm not used to is the assumption that I'm a moocher, especially when the very opposite is true, so being on the receiving end of that really took me aback.

There was no offense taken on my part. None at all.

The thing is, moving back before these particular rules were introduced still involved "red tape". There was still an application process and a hefty fee. There were rules and specifically there was a qualifier that the immigrant sponsor must have had income above the level of a family on income support (a UK benefit). Some will argue that this amount was too low and that may be the case. One of the things about sponsorship under the old rules that always dumb-founded me was that the sponsor could count UK benefits as income (such as job seekers; housing benefit; etc). This was quite different from the US system, and can no longer be done (except for disability benefits).

Anti-immigrant sentiment in the UK is very high. And it IS insulting to someone like you or I, who has always worked and always taken care of ourselves. I've always had a REALLY poor reaction to any hoops my husband has had to jump through in the US because he is an immigrant. I'm not talking about USCIS or State Department red tape - I expect that. I'm talking about employers not understanding how to properly interview my husband or document his employment file. Or complicated DMV rules that have more to do with "catching" illegals than identity verification. I firmly believe that the UK general public doesn't realize what kind of mess Parliament is about to create. If you aren't sure what I'm talking about, research new laws being proposed in the UK regarding landlords verifying the legal status of a potential tenant. Or NHS usage by migrants.

And for some REAL hair-standing-on-the-back-of-your-neck thrills, google "Go Home Or Face Arrest" vans.

Yeah. It's not pretty.

[Boiler 45,322]

They really realise the mess that has been created.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

They really realise the mess that has been created.

"They" rather enjoy the free movement available to "them", though, don't "they"?

Edited August 15, 2013 by Rebecca Jo

[Boiler 45,322]

I doubt it.

For most.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

I doubt it.

For most.

"Most" just know what they read in the Daily Mail.

Just like most people here in the US don't really know anything about immigration.

[Boiler 45,322]

Never read the Daily Mail.

More likely they walk around with their eyes open?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Never read the Daily Mail.

More likely they walk around with their eyes open?

Yes, I know. All those scary brown people.

[codie 7]

Im here having a coffee,its early morning and raining,i receieved the K1 by delivery last week and have rented my house out a few days ago because i cannot sell it for what i paid for it 5 years ago,the tenants move in in two days,ive given away pretty much everything i own that i cant take with me to the US,so i was reading your comments on immigration and pondering my move to the US,work,settling in,homesickness,americans and how they will accept a yorkshireman working with them,or even how they will react to a Brit at interview ? I dont have a degree,not even a diploma,ive been self employed since a was 21,so this move is daunting,starting again,being unemployed and dependant on my future wife till i get the GC and a job.I was struck by Rebecca Jo's comment on her opinion about different perspectives to immigration in the UK and the US,i think i agree ! And i will explain why. firstly,an hispanic family,illegals,yet living and working in the US for years,the children of the illegal parents were born there,then the father gets arrested for something,and he is deported back to salvador,yet the mother and kids stay,the mum was given a choice to stay or leave,the mother chose to stay for the sake of the childrens future,and still the father was deported !! i was shocked,i could have understood him being jailed but not deported,after all the kids are US citizens and a family,i said to my fiance this wouldnt happen in the Uk,she replied,the father will be back one day,somehow he will find a way like he did before,he wont stay away from his wife and kids.Then another instance of deportation i was told,closer to home,a woman who works near my office told me she had to fly to the US to escort her sisters kids back to the UK,her sister married an american,lived in the US for years,had kids,but she/he never bothered to pursue the legalities after marriage,she never became a resident or citizen,they simply got married,then a year or so ago they get into a violent domestic,he slaps her around,she headbutted him and hits him,he gets bloodied,a neighbour calls the cops,she gets arrested since he is the one bleeding,and thats when immigration gets involved and ends with her deportation minus the kids because they are US citizens, and his mother applies for custody,now she ( mum ) cant enter the US,the kids can visit here but only with her parents signing as Guarantors that they will return the children,sad case ! Again i was shocked that the US will separate families.It certainly makes you aware that deportation in the US and deportation in the UK are worlds apart,hence the different perspectives frustrations and attitudes of americans/Brits to the lengthy deportation of terror suspects who have family ties to the UK.I saw that my attitude and reaction to these deportations was different to my fiances,i see that my view of some laws is different to my fiances i.e drinking a beer off her property one time,she freaked out when she caught me with an open can,,she said i could get arrested,and i thought ...arrested for having a can of beer by the lake ? yet an american friend gets a gun for a xmas present and shows it off and nobody reacts with horror ? Different perspectives,horror to an open can of beer,no horror to a gun,horror to a family broken up,no horror to a law breaker being deported

its like the toilet seat up or down issue between a man and wife,it all depends on perspective dont you think ?

[Boiler 45,322]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/15/abu-qatada-family-leave-uk

Here you are.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/15/abu-qatada-family-leave-uk

Here you are.

What has Abu Qatada got to do with whether or not a working class couple should be able to live together as man and wife in the UK?

[Boiler 45,322]

An example of a family split by UK Immigration laws.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/michael-allen/theresa-may-immigration-policy_b_3769593.html