Another Countdown Thread!!!!!!

[jordanianprincess 0]

Discrimination would be impossible to prove and you cant use discrimination by US standards.

I agree with the former statement, but why couldn't you apply U.S. standards? It is the U.S. Consulate, and CO's are U.S. government employees, are they not?

That is true but its not the petioner that is on the stand here, its the beneficiary so why would they apply US standards to him/her? They know the culture of the country and thats what they use.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think Casa would legally be able to deny a case solely because the petitioner is black, even if that would be frowned upon in Morocco. Of course, this is probably a moot point, since they would never say that was the reason for denial.

I don't think that has anythng to do with the denial. I don't even see how being black would matter since Morocco is in Africa. Either way I have not seen anything that leads me to believe this was discrimination.

[morocco4ever 63]

I just noted on your profile that his cousin introduced you. This would be considered a red flag.

How on earth would that be a red flag? That's quite common in Islam to get introduced to someone via family and agree to marry them. Isn't Morroco an Islamic country?

because they might think it is an arranged marriage so that his cousin can come to the US and live with him. Family will try to help family out.

Is that what you meant Morocco4ever?

Yes, exactly.

Now, lets get on with Chi's experience, and her statement that it is prejuduce. I understand exactly what she is saying, and I hope by pointing this out in a different manner you will understand better what she means.

Many of you know now why mine was denied:

1-got married shortly after we met

2-small wedding

3-no family or friends at the wedding

Okay, now lets view it this way. These red flags do indeed need to be addressed...but then again, maybe these red flags weren't factual, or very easily explained if allowed to do so.

1-got married shortly after we met

rebuttal...I had already known him for a year. Webcams and headsets are only 1 way different from being in person...you can't touch...I can decide to marry a man before I touch him, can't you?

2-small wedding

rebuttal, true, but it took 2 weeks 1 day to get approval, I left 4 days later, not much time to plan an elaborate wedding. Besides, isn't a small wedding a matter of personal decision, not decided by the government

3-no family or friends at the wedding

False, We had several family members there, and I had pictures, the CO saw them all, never asked 1 question as to who these people were.

Sooooo, back to the discrimination. If my husband and I had been the same age this would have still been a red flag, correct? Now here is the discrimination....If they were the same age, they would have asked these questions and been given the opportunity to prove their case. Answers given, visa given. Now in the our case, same red flags, but I was not allowed the opportunity to present our evidence, even though he had everything there to prove our case.

Morocco does have a high number of people on visa journey, and it could be a factor in the large number of denials. But on the other hand I have seen others from different countries with the same red flags as they gave us. Where they scrutinized? Oh yes....were they allowed to show their proof? YES....they get the visa. Thats just what I have seen, can't say it is 100% accurate.

BTW, interesting note....age difference was never even addressed in the reason for our returned petition. Hmmmmm....I tend to wonder if that is because it is illegal to send it back for that reason.

Now...back to the topic, k?

[Jenn! 918]

Discrimination would be impossible to prove and you cant use discrimination by US standards.

I agree with the former statement, but why couldn't you apply U.S. standards? It is the U.S. Consulate, and CO's are U.S. government employees, are they not?

That is true but its not the petioner that is on the stand here, its the beneficiary so why would they apply US standards to him/her? They know the culture of the country and thats what they use.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think Casa would legally be able to deny a case solely because the petitioner is black, even if that would be frowned upon in Morocco. Of course, this is probably a moot point, since they would never say that was the reason for denial.

I don't think that has anythng to do with the denial. I don't even see how being black would matter since Morocco is in Africa. Either way I have not seen anything that leads me to believe this was discrimination.

I agree about this case, I was speaking hypothetically.

[jordanianprincess 0]

Discrimination would be impossible to prove and you cant use discrimination by US standards.

I agree with the former statement, but why couldn't you apply U.S. standards? It is the U.S. Consulate, and CO's are U.S. government employees, are they not?

That is true but its not the petioner that is on the stand here, its the beneficiary so why would they apply US standards to him/her? They know the culture of the country and thats what they use.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think Casa would legally be able to deny a case solely because the petitioner is black, even if that would be frowned upon in Morocco. Of course, this is probably a moot point, since they would never say that was the reason for denial.

I don't think that has anythng to do with the denial. I don't even see how being black would matter since Morocco is in Africa. Either way I have not seen anything that leads me to believe this was discrimination.

I agree about this case, I was speaking hypothetically.

Ok I see what you are saying now. They can't legally deny a case for that reason but I think overall the CO goes with their Gut feeling. I don't envy them and would never want thier job.

[Private 1]

I just noted on your profile that his cousin introduced you. This would be considered a red flag.

How on earth would that be a red flag? That's quite common in Islam to get introduced to someone via family and agree to marry them. Isn't Morroco an Islamic country?

They consider it a red flag, I think, because their family could have paid you or made arrangements with you just so you'd bring their family to America.

Right. In this case the wali hooked her up with his own family member, and one who is not from the United States. Immigration will want to know if this was done for an immigration benefit because in their eyes, a Muslim husband could be found here.

Also, the consulate may have addressed the one issue of length of relationship. It does't mean others won't be addressed when the petition is returned.

To answer guys questions because I am extremely annoyed with this group trend all of a sudden. But in my write I put that I meet him through my friend how was his cousin, this went through every chain. We began talking in May and we decided to meet in June, I went in July. Also in Islam this is okay and if I could go to Morocco I would, but I am currently in the US Navy and I am unable to leave until 2010. Also, I am not very close with his family just his cousin and we teach at the mosque together. Ever photo besides one is with me in Hijib, which I removed them becuase of the bad things I heard about pictures on the site. The one that you see on my profile is the only one without a scraf they did not look at the photos. As far as red flags, I believe this is the only one they can find. We are in the same age catorgy, we both working in accouting, we are both muslim, we are both working towards advance degrees. ANd I am working on a serious study of French and Arabic. (The main reason is for work you get paid more like a $1000 more.) Yassine has studied English since High School, his english is not the best but we communicate in both. He told me she took the emails and she gave them back, she did not want the photos and she only took the phone bills. Which all are in my name and are forever, i did not realize that I called him so much. I know a lot of African-American women have issues when it comes to this place and I will like to say that when some decides to marry you are to make a speical pray which I did and I got my answer. Also, the amount of quality muslim men seems to be small. I know a lot of black women that married moroccoans and they where denied and they fought for the relationship and it seems like all of them have 3 kids. I have a life outside of websites and it is a little frustrating that while I was gone for about 2 and half hours everybody starts to go in circles. IF you remeber this one girl she is also African American and she was told she was approved but she was denied. I really believe the consulate ignore's some of the customs and they have different rules. IF I was a man it would ahve been fine, I know the women sometiems go with no questions. I know my friends sister is married to a black man she had no problems. I have seen men go to morocco and this is okay. I do believe there are a lot of bias in this Embassy and race matters. However even in Morocco my fiacne's uncle is married to a black woman and another aunt is married to a black. They really do not care about race. They brag that they have every culutre you can think of in there family. As for the interview I do not know what went wrong, he told me what he could recall and it is bits and peices. I told him not to do it in English but he said that he was not given the option. SHe did not look at the photos and she did not look at the emails. As far as the phone bills I am not sure, but he said she asked the same thing twice and she also got all the way to what kind of food did I like. I wear hijib all the time, I feel werid without it. But we have been knwoing each other for about 5 months and this to me is plenty of time to get engaged. Also, I see people everyday meet through a friend and get married quickly and then the couple is together for a long time. What confuses me the most is that nobody had a problem and I was approved in record time and also what is sending it back going to change. If they review I appeal blah blah, I will give the same eveidnece that I did at first(hopefully with an other ticket stub in it because I need to see him soon) and what is going to happen??? And if they approve it again then it is sent back it will like more 6 months so would this time make them approve us???? This is crazy I told the truth and I could have lied about the time if I knew it matter. It just seems to me that she went to the bottom to find something and my fiance told me she ask all things and he answer. I contacted the congress people but I think the help is either here or there.. My fiance said that when went to the window he felt like she had already made up her mind. And I do not know how to fight that. I have seen people with way more red flags and they get approved. I had help in putting things together. I jsut do not understand what went wrong. I prayed hard for this and I did not get it, only Allah knows best. Thanks for your help and thanks for listening if you made ti this far.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I am going out on a limb here, but does anyone think the fact that Private is in the Military has anything to do with this? Given the current state of the middle east maybe that factored into it somehow.

Did they ask about this in the interview?

Also, I am not very close with his family just his cousin and we teach at the mosque together. .

This is a big red flag incase you were unsure, find a way rebutt this.

[Jenn! 918]

My fiance said that when went to the window he felt like she had already made up her mind. And I do not know how to fight that.

I don't doubt that one bit.

I am going out on a limb here, but does anyone think the fact that Private is in the Military has anything to do with this? Given the current state of the middle east maybe that factored into it somehow.

Where are you going with this? My first thought is that it would work in their favor. What am I not seeing?

[Veiled Princess 1]

Doesn't the petitioner have any protection throughout this process under U.S. law, regardless of what the cultural norms may be in the beneficiary's country?

Not as far as I understand it.

[~*Dorothy*~ 2]

My heart breaks for them too.

Once again it sounds the the big "D" word! (discrimination)

chi

Chi,

This has crossed my mind as well...i hope that she will be able to get to the bottom of it but as you know yourself the way Casa operates you will never know what hit you.

Dorothy

[jordanianprincess 0]

My fiance said that when went to the window he felt like she had already made up her mind. And I do not know how to fight that.

I don't doubt that one bit.

I am going out on a limb here, but does anyone think the fact that Private is in the Military has anything to do with this? Given the current state of the middle east maybe that factored into it somehow.

Where are you going with this? My first thought is that it would work in their favor. What am I not seeing?

Most arabs are against the war and the US Military. I mean think of it this way, the way most arabs see it, the US Militay is with Israel and is killing fellow arabs. Just a theory, but I don't think there are many middle eastern men that would marry someone in the US Military. I'm just wondering if the CO asked abotu this in a tricky sort of way, kinda like "how do you feel about the war?"

[AichaKandisha 0]

To answer guys questions because I am extremely annoyed with this group trend all of a sudden.

Private,

I am so sorry about what happened. I'm even more sorry for some of the things on this thread. Please take the positive advice and leave the rest where it belongs. I wish there was more I could help with but all that I can do is to let you know I am thinking of you and your fiance. I will also add to keep reminding yourself to not take the negative comments personally.

Don't give up!

[morocco4ever 63]

Private, I do wonder about you being black being an issue. I know of another black woman that was also denied, but for the life of me I don't remember her red flags. Of course returning it based on that would be discrimination, they would do it, but they wouldn't admit to it. What they do is look for a something substanial to use. Like in your case, you didn't know each other very long, that is what they used for yours. We all know that many people are married quickly after first meeting...its a personal decision, the difference is that they are not applying for a visa.

JP is right though, not being close to his family is a red flag. There are so many little ones that they look for. I don't know the exact reason for the return, but I do believe that their minds are made up before the interview.

[sarah and hicham 3]

Private do you know the questions your fiance was asked?

[Bosco 1]

I am going out on a limb here, but does anyone think the fact that Private is in the Military has anything to do with this? Given the current state of the middle east maybe that factored into it somehow.

Where are you going with this? My first thought is that it would work in their favor. What am I not seeing?

I don't know why it would play in their favor.

I think what is forgotten is this really isn't about the USC. This is about a non-USC demonstrating why he/she should be eligible for a visa. Yes, they are being petitioned for by a USC, but this isn't about rights we have has USC's. The non-USC is not protected under any ours laws and immigration is not a right.

[jordanianprincess 0]

Private, I do wonder about you being black being an issue. I know of another black woman that was also denied, but for the life of me I don't remember her red flags. Of course returning it based on that would be discrimination, they would do it, but they wouldn't admit to it. What they do is look for a something substanial to use. Like in your case, you didn't know each other very long, that is what they used for yours. We all know that many people are married quickly after first meeting...its a personal decision, the difference is that they are not applying for a visa.

JP is right though, not being close to his family is a red flag. There are so many little ones that they look for. I don't know the exact reason for the return, but I do believe that their minds are made up before the interview.

M4, I don't see how being black is an issue in AFRICA. Besides that, she is not on trial her, her man was. It would be more important to figure out what they said to him in the interview.

The red flag I brought up wasn't about her not being close to the family, it was the fact that she is very close with his cousin and works with him in a mosque. That can be seen as an arrangmemt for him to be brought here.