Another Countdown Thread!!!!!!

[mybackpages 0]

But we have been knwoing each other for about 5 months and this to me is plenty of time to get engaged. Also, I see people everyday meet through a friend and get married quickly and then the couple is together for a long time. What confuses me the most is that nobody had a problem and I was approved in record time and also what is sending it back going to change. If they review I appeal blah blah, I will give the same eveidnece that I did at first(hopefully with an other ticket stub in it because I need to see him soon) and what is going to happen??? And if they approve it again then it is sent back it will like more 6 months so would this time make them approve us????

Private-

I can only imagine how you must be feeling. <<<hugs>>> USCIS approved the petition because all you had to prove is you met within the two year time frame. They do not care if you met and became engaged quickly. Not to defend the Consulate, but I think in their eyes your relationship is not 5 months old, but rather they are counting from the time you met to the time you got engaged and sent in the petition.

A quick plunge in to marriage is a red flag for fraud cases not just in Casa but everywhere. I agree you can fall in love and get married overnight if you want. Isn't that was las Vegas is for? so I think its not that you have known each other for 5 months and that isn't long enough, but that you made this decision so quickly after being introduced by his cousin.

You will have more evidence to send with the appeal. You have an on-going relationship. Keep strong and accountable records from here on out. You can be creative and find other ways of building the evidence to counter thier charge. Maybe someone fromthe Mosque can write an afidavit attesting to your work there and your introduction to your fiance.

A second trip is not only good for evidence but at this point I think you need to be with each other for sure. I know it looks like you are in a dark tunnel with no way out, but you can survive this and have a longlife together, God willing.

Remember the Consulate and now USCIS will only have what is in front of them. They can not see what is in your heart. Build a strong case on paper. Get help organizing this informaton.

Let me just add I am sorry if this thread upset you. We are all just trying to make sense out of these cases. Its an emotional rollercoaster for us all in this process. We want to get as much good information from you as possible to help you find the solution and help others still waiting for the interview. Thank you for being willing to share this personal information with us.

[Bosco 1]

Private, I do wonder about you being black being an issue. I know of another black woman that was also denied, but for the life of me I don't remember her red flags. Of course returning it based on that would be discrimination, they would do it, but they wouldn't admit to it. What they do is look for a something substanial to use. Like in your case, you didn't know each other very long, that is what they used for yours. We all know that many people are married quickly after first meeting...its a personal decision, the difference is that they are not applying for a visa.

JP is right though, not being close to his family is a red flag. There are so many little ones that they look for. I don't know the exact reason for the return, but I do believe that their minds are made up before the interview.

We also all know African Americans that were approved. I think this is a leap to say because some African Americans were denied, this is a sign of discrimination. To make such a statement would require looking at the number of African American petitioners and the number of denials compared to other groups. To make such a leap otherwise will serve no purpose other than to make African Americans going through this process in the future fearful.

[jordanianprincess 0]

Private, I do wonder about you being black being an issue. I know of another black woman that was also denied, but for the life of me I don't remember her red flags. Of course returning it based on that would be discrimination, they would do it, but they wouldn't admit to it. What they do is look for a something substanial to use. Like in your case, you didn't know each other very long, that is what they used for yours. We all know that many people are married quickly after first meeting...its a personal decision, the difference is that they are not applying for a visa.

JP is right though, not being close to his family is a red flag. There are so many little ones that they look for. I don't know the exact reason for the return, but I do believe that their minds are made up before the interview.

We also all know African Americans that were approved. I think this is a leap to say because some African Americans were denied, this is a sign of discrimination. To make such a statement would require looking at the number of African American petitioners and the number of denials compared to other groups. To make such a leap otherwise will serve no purpose other than to make African Americans going through this process in the future fearful.

Excellent point.

[Private 1]

I am sure that all of you know that Morocco was one of the first countries to recongize the United States and that the US and Morocco has a great relationship. No they did not ask who he felt about the war. And Morocco has a big propoganda campign against terrorism right now. So to say that this is an issue North Africa is very different than the Middle East I have been to both and I know first hand that they think differently. As far as race and everything goes I would never think that you guys would see my point. I put how I felt down. Antoher girl was on here and she left the group, however she felt the same way. All my photos had hijib and trust me they see me at work, I get Fridays off and I stand duty on Saturdays so I can have Jumah off. I also volunteered for the holiday duty in exchange from for my own. I am a practicing muslimah and I love Islam. I teach on the weekends at the Mosque. I go to school and I think I am a good citizen. They did ask my child too so remember having a baby before is a red flag. And they asked how did he feel about it and they like to ask. Why marry with an American and not a Moroccan, so have a nice story for them. I am not sure what to say, I am a bit upset today and I can not stop crying but it is not fair for people to think you did something wrong. And why did the USCIS not say anything, why was I approved in 15 days? I do not get it. And one thing off topic because a lot of people ask me how can you be in the military and be muslims does it conflict. No, the prophets wives went to war and believe it or not there are a lot of closet muslims because they are scared of the punishment for being muslim. How can you change anybody's mind if you are not a part of anything. Also the military is a family tradition that we have and I work hard to get in the military and stay there. Islam is like Christian, I am growing as a muslim and I do not think I am the prefect example. Just like a lot of people claim to be christian and they do what they do. ANd if the lad would have looked at the photos and read the emails she would have known that. By the way the US military always does desert ops with the Moroccan Military just in case nobody knew.

[jordanianprincess 0]

I am sure that all of you know that Morocco was one of the first countries to recongize the United States and that the US and Morocco has a great relationship. No they did not ask who he felt about the war. And Morocco has a big propoganda campign against terrorism right now. So to say that this is an issue North Africa is very different than the Middle East I have been to both and I know first hand that they think differently. As far as race and everything goes I would never think that you guys would see my point. I put how I felt down. Antoher girl was on here and she left the group, however she felt the same way. All my photos had hijib and trust me they see me at work, I get Fridays off and I stand duty on Saturdays so I can have Jumah off. I also volunteered for the holiday duty in exchange from for my own. I am a practicing muslimah and I love Islam. I teach on the weekends at the Mosque. I go to school and I think I am a good citizen. They did ask my child too so remember having a baby before is a red flag. And they asked how did he feel about it and they like to ask. Why marry with an American and not a Moroccan, so have a nice story for them. I am not sure what to say, I am a bit upset today and I can not stop crying but it is not fair for people to think you did something wrong. And why did the USCIS not say anything, why was I approved in 15 days? I do not get it. And one thing off topic because a lot of people ask me how can you be in the military and be muslims does it conflict. No, the prophets wives went to war and believe it or not there are a lot of closet muslims because they are scared of the punishment for being muslim. How can you change anybody's mind if you are not a part of anything. Also the military is a family tradition that we have and I work hard to get in the military and stay there. Islam is like Christian, I am growing as a muslim and I do not think I am the prefect example. Just like a lot of people claim to be christian and they do what they do. ANd if the lad would have looked at the photos and read the emails she would have known that. By the way the US military always does desert ops with the Moroccan Military just in case nobody knew.

All of this is fine, but he is the one that needs to prove why he deserves the visa, not you. Regardless of the ties of the Moroccan government and US governement, Morocco is still a Muslim country and most Muslims are against the war.

Again I think you need to focus your attention on him, I don't think you are the issue here.

[sarah and hicham 3]

They approved you in 15 days because the only requirement you have to meet is having met in the last 2 years.

[jordanianprincess 0]

They approved you in 15 days because the only requirement you have to meet is having met in the last 2 years.

I also want to add, you can get approved by the USCIS & the Embassy and still get denied at teh port of entry. None of it is guarenteed.

[morocco4ever 63]

Private, I do wonder about you being black being an issue. I know of another black woman that was also denied, but for the life of me I don't remember her red flags. Of course returning it based on that would be discrimination, they would do it, but they wouldn't admit to it. What they do is look for a something substanial to use. Like in your case, you didn't know each other very long, that is what they used for yours. We all know that many people are married quickly after first meeting...its a personal decision, the difference is that they are not applying for a visa.

JP is right though, not being close to his family is a red flag. There are so many little ones that they look for. I don't know the exact reason for the return, but I do believe that their minds are made up before the interview.

M4, I don't see how being black is an issue in AFRICA. Besides that, she is not on trial her, her man was. It would be more important to figure out what they said to him in the interview.

The red flag I brought up wasn't about her not being close to the family, it was the fact that she is very close with his cousin and works with him in a mosque. That can be seen as an arrangmemt for him to be brought here.

Just because it is in Africa doesn't mean that Moroccans are accepting of blacks. I saw very few black people while I was there. And, not to offend anyone here, but I have known many Arabs that state that they would not marry a black woman. Please keep in mind, this is what I have been told, and I would never believe that all Arabs feel this way, nor do I condone that kind of racism. Soooo...I am not saying it is because she is black, but rather are Moroccans accepting of a black/Arab relationship. So yes, it does come down to him, not her.

As for the red flags, sorry skimmed through that and didn't catch your intent. I agree, they could view it as an arrangement. I also believe that if she is not close to his family then this is also a red flag.

Private has a rough situation here...this is devastating. Although some of what is said here might come across harshly, and I doubt that anyone really intended it to hurt you, it is important you think objectively about everyones ideas for red flags. You just don't know for sure, and they rarely reveal everything that factors in to their decision. Some could be way off, some could be right on the money...just don't discharge anything because it isn't fair.

One more note...I would not want to have the responsibilities that a CO has. Lets face it, they have a huge responsibility. All we want is a chance to prove our case at the consulate level, and to look it over objectively, not with the intent to send it back regardless of the evidence. Isn't that what we all would want? I think these CO's are feeling overwhelmed, and the quick fix is to send it back.

[chiquita 0]

Private,

I hear this over and over again...the CO had already made the decision to deny prior to the interview AND without even bothering to look at all the evidence. Of course the people here on VJ wouldn't know that since they have not gone through it. But this is mostly how it does happen.

Once again I am so sorry you have been denied.

First thing the CO should have done if there seemed to be any issues was to look at ALL of your EVIDENCE. Then if there are still doubts the CO should inform the benificiary that more proof is needed. But the tactic is to deny before getting all the info based on their suspicions. This of course is no the corrct way to do it according to their guidelines. (And those of the CFR) {code of federal regulations}

I know you must be racking your brain as to what you could have done different. Don't bother. None of us who have gone through this nightmare know all the details of why we were denied. We only know that it was "due to the validity of the relationship". This certainly leaves much to be discovered. We all talk about the "red flags" and many with them do go on to get a visa. What is the reason for this? Who knows. No use trying to figure it out. I do take that back, one couple actually received copies of the CO's notes when they received the NOIR (notice of intent to revoke) letter. So it is a small possibility you can too.

Now you have mentioned your reps seem not interested. Get them interested. First you must send a release for them to make an inquiry to the consulate on your behalf. Fax it to them. Be sure to give your case number.

Most important stay in touch with your husband. He is in shock too. This makes our men feel like they are criminals.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Many Hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

chi

I just noted on your profile that his cousin introduced you. This would be considered a red flag.

How on earth would that be a red flag? That's quite common in Islam to get introduced to someone via family and agree to marry them. Isn't Morroco an Islamic country?

They consider it a red flag, I think, because their family could have paid you or made arrangements with you just so you'd bring their family to America.

Right. In this case the wali hooked her up with his own family member, and one who is not from the United States. Immigration will want to know if this was done for an immigration benefit because in their eyes, a Muslim husband could be found here.

Also, the consulate may have addressed the one issue of length of relationship. It does't mean others won't be addressed when the petition is returned.

To answer guys questions because I am extremely annoyed with this group trend all of a sudden. But in my write I put that I meet him through my friend how was his cousin, this went through every chain. We began talking in May and we decided to meet in June, I went in July. Also in Islam this is okay and if I could go to Morocco I would, but I am currently in the US Navy and I am unable to leave until 2010. Also, I am not very close with his family just his cousin and we teach at the mosque together. Ever photo besides one is with me in Hijib, which I removed them becuase of the bad things I heard about pictures on the site. The one that you see on my profile is the only one without a scraf they did not look at the photos. As far as red flags, I believe this is the only one they can find. We are in the same age catorgy, we both working in accouting, we are both muslim, we are both working towards advance degrees. ANd I am working on a serious study of French and Arabic. (The main reason is for work you get paid more like a $1000 more.) Yassine has studied English since High School, his english is not the best but we communicate in both. He told me she took the emails and she gave them back, she did not want the photos and she only took the phone bills. Which all are in my name and are forever, i did not realize that I called him so much. I know a lot of African-American women have issues when it comes to this place and I will like to say that when some decides to marry you are to make a speical pray which I did and I got my answer. Also, the amount of quality muslim men seems to be small. I know a lot of black women that married moroccoans and they where denied and they fought for the relationship and it seems like all of them have 3 kids. I have a life outside of websites and it is a little frustrating that while I was gone for about 2 and half hours everybody starts to go in circles. IF you remeber this one girl she is also African American and she was told she was approved but she was denied. I really believe the consulate ignore's some of the customs and they have different rules. IF I was a man it would ahve been fine, I know the women sometiems go with no questions. I know my friends sister is married to a black man she had no problems. I have seen men go to morocco and this is okay. I do believe there are a lot of bias in this Embassy and race matters. However even in Morocco my fiacne's uncle is married to a black woman and another aunt is married to a black. They really do not care about race. They brag that they have every culutre you can think of in there family. As for the interview I do not know what went wrong, he told me what he could recall and it is bits and peices. I told him not to do it in English but he said that he was not given the option. SHe did not look at the photos and she did not look at the emails. As far as the phone bills I am not sure, but he said she asked the same thing twice and she also got all the way to what kind of food did I like. I wear hijib all the time, I feel werid without it. But we have been knwoing each other for about 5 months and this to me is plenty of time to get engaged. Also, I see people everyday meet through a friend and get married quickly and then the couple is together for a long time. What confuses me the most is that nobody had a problem and I was approved in record time and also what is sending it back going to change. If they review I appeal blah blah, I will give the same eveidnece that I did at first(hopefully with an other ticket stub in it because I need to see him soon) and what is going to happen??? And if they approve it again then it is sent back it will like more 6 months so would this time make them approve us???? This is crazy I told the truth and I could have lied about the time if I knew it matter. It just seems to me that she went to the bottom to find something and my fiance told me she ask all things and he answer. I contacted the congress people but I think the help is either here or there.. My fiance said that when went to the window he felt like she had already made up her mind. And I do not know how to fight that. I have seen people with way more red flags and they get approved. I had help in putting things together. I jsut do not understand what went wrong. I prayed hard for this and I did not get it, only Allah knows best. Thanks for your help and thanks for listening if you made ti this far.

[jordanianprincess 0]

Private, I do wonder about you being black being an issue. I know of another black woman that was also denied, but for the life of me I don't remember her red flags. Of course returning it based on that would be discrimination, they would do it, but they wouldn't admit to it. What they do is look for a something substanial to use. Like in your case, you didn't know each other very long, that is what they used for yours. We all know that many people are married quickly after first meeting...its a personal decision, the difference is that they are not applying for a visa.

JP is right though, not being close to his family is a red flag. There are so many little ones that they look for. I don't know the exact reason for the return, but I do believe that their minds are made up before the interview.

M4, I don't see how being black is an issue in AFRICA. Besides that, she is not on trial her, her man was. It would be more important to figure out what they said to him in the interview.

The red flag I brought up wasn't about her not being close to the family, it was the fact that she is very close with his cousin and works with him in a mosque. That can be seen as an arrangmemt for him to be brought here.

Just because it is in Africa doesn't mean that Moroccans are accepting of blacks. I saw very few black people while I was there. And, not to offend anyone here, but I have known many Arabs that state that they would not marry a black woman. Please keep in mind, this is what I have been told, and I would never believe that all Arabs feel this way, nor do I condone that kind of racism. Soooo...I am not saying it is because she is black, but rather are Moroccans accepting of a black/Arab relationship. So yes, it does come down to him, not her.

As for the red flags, sorry skimmed through that and didn't catch your intent. I agree, they could view it as an arrangement. I also believe that if she is not close to his family then this is also a red flag.

Private has a rough situation here...this is devastating. Although some of what is said here might come across harshly, and I doubt that anyone really intended it to hurt you, it is important you think objectively about everyones ideas for red flags. You just don't know for sure, and they rarely reveal everything that factors in to their decision. Some could be way off, some could be right on the money...just don't discharge anything because it isn't fair.

One more note...I would not want to have the responsibilities that a CO has. Lets face it, they have a huge responsibility. All we want is a chance to prove our case at the consulate level, and to look it over objectively, not with the intent to send it back regardless of the evidence. Isn't that what we all would want? I think these CO's are feeling overwhelmed, and the quick fix is to send it back.

They may not all be accepting of black people, but it does happen. It is also more common in Morocco then any other country. You cant compare Morocco with Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon (other ME countries). However again, I don't think this has anything to do with it at all. They are not going to approve all black people bcz they are black and they will not deny them all bcz they are black. That has nothing to do with it. As Rebecca said, you would have to see the data on it before making an assumption like that.

[mybackpages 0]

Just because it is in Africa doesn't mean that Moroccans are accepting of blacks. I saw very few black people while I was there.

Well then maybe you just didn't go far enough south. Black Africans out number Arab Moroccans in some parts and are gaining on Berbers. Go to Rissani and you think you are in Mauritania or Mali.

Edited October 17, 2006 by mybackpages

[chiquita 0]

You don't have to justfy your feelings. You are entitled to them!!!

You don't have to explain your life either. You are a human being!

Regardles if others think different, Casa does discrimiante according to what the word means.

You are in shock and you need support! You dont need to have your life torn down. You did nothing wrong.

When you get over the shock and disappointment then you will be able to come back fighting this unjustice done to you! In the meantime take care of yourself.

Hugs

chi

I am sure that all of you know that Morocco was one of the first countries to recongize the United States and that the US and Morocco has a great relationship. No they did not ask who he felt about the war. And Morocco has a big propoganda campign against terrorism right now. So to say that this is an issue North Africa is very different than the Middle East I have been to both and I know first hand that they think differently. As far as race and everything goes I would never think that you guys would see my point. I put how I felt down. Antoher girl was on here and she left the group, however she felt the same way. All my photos had hijib and trust me they see me at work, I get Fridays off and I stand duty on Saturdays so I can have Jumah off. I also volunteered for the holiday duty in exchange from for my own. I am a practicing muslimah and I love Islam. I teach on the weekends at the Mosque. I go to school and I think I am a good citizen. They did ask my child too so remember having a baby before is a red flag. And they asked how did he feel about it and they like to ask. Why marry with an American and not a Moroccan, so have a nice story for them. I am not sure what to say, I am a bit upset today and I can not stop crying but it is not fair for people to think you did something wrong. And why did the USCIS not say anything, why was I approved in 15 days? I do not get it. And one thing off topic because a lot of people ask me how can you be in the military and be muslims does it conflict. No, the prophets wives went to war and believe it or not there are a lot of closet muslims because they are scared of the punishment for being muslim. How can you change anybody's mind if you are not a part of anything. Also the military is a family tradition that we have and I work hard to get in the military and stay there. Islam is like Christian, I am growing as a muslim and I do not think I am the prefect example. Just like a lot of people claim to be christian and they do what they do. ANd if the lad would have looked at the photos and read the emails she would have known that. By the way the US military always does desert ops with the Moroccan Military just in case nobody knew.

[MrsAmera 41]

Whew I made it through all 10 pages. First off, Private I'm so sorry for what you've been through - it sucks really. Just a thought - I see that you do have a child (right?) what kind of relationship does your fiance have with them? I know for us one of the most beneficial aspects of our interview was that my husband had a strong relationship with my son, we had pictures and letters etc. proof of their relationship as well. The CO was very impressed by this. Also, just a thought - is there anyone (a superior commander or something) who knows of your relationship and could write a letter of recommendation or something? Or send documentation that you must stay on post and can not visit again due to your term of duty? It might sound out there but I would be trying anything at this point. Frankly I'm a bit surprised that you being a member of the military would encounter such issues. Also, your senator or rep should be interested as you are a member of the military. Contact both senators and your representative and get them to make inquiries. Get letters from your superiors attesting to their knowledge and the factuality of the relationship. They have seen the pictures, phone bills etc. now you have to get creative. But don't wait get going as soon as possible!

I hope that helps some - prayers are with you sister!

[morocco4ever 63]

Private, I do wonder about you being black being an issue. I know of another black woman that was also denied, but for the life of me I don't remember her red flags. Of course returning it based on that would be discrimination, they would do it, but they wouldn't admit to it. What they do is look for a something substanial to use. Like in your case, you didn't know each other very long, that is what they used for yours. We all know that many people are married quickly after first meeting...its a personal decision, the difference is that they are not applying for a visa.

JP is right though, not being close to his family is a red flag. There are so many little ones that they look for. I don't know the exact reason for the return, but I do believe that their minds are made up before the interview.

M4, I don't see how being black is an issue in AFRICA. Besides that, she is not on trial her, her man was. It would be more important to figure out what they said to him in the interview.

The red flag I brought up wasn't about her not being close to the family, it was the fact that she is very close with his cousin and works with him in a mosque. That can be seen as an arrangmemt for him to be brought here.

Just because it is in Africa doesn't mean that Moroccans are accepting of blacks. I saw very few black people while I was there. And, not to offend anyone here, but I have known many Arabs that state that they would not marry a black woman. Please keep in mind, this is what I have been told, and I would never believe that all Arabs feel this way, nor do I condone that kind of racism. Soooo...I am not saying it is because she is black, but rather are Moroccans accepting of a black/Arab relationship. So yes, it does come down to him, not her.

As for the red flags, sorry skimmed through that and didn't catch your intent. I agree, they could view it as an arrangement. I also believe that if she is not close to his family then this is also a red flag.

Private has a rough situation here...this is devastating. Although some of what is said here might come across harshly, and I doubt that anyone really intended it to hurt you, it is important you think objectively about everyones ideas for red flags. You just don't know for sure, and they rarely reveal everything that factors in to their decision. Some could be way off, some could be right on the money...just don't discharge anything because it isn't fair.

One more note...I would not want to have the responsibilities that a CO has. Lets face it, they have a huge responsibility. All we want is a chance to prove our case at the consulate level, and to look it over objectively, not with the intent to send it back regardless of the evidence. Isn't that what we all would want? I think these CO's are feeling overwhelmed, and the quick fix is to send it back.

They may not all be accepting of black people, but it does happen. It is also more common in Morocco then any other country. You cant compare Morocco with Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon (other ME countries). However again, I don't think this has anything to do with it at all. They are not going to approve all black people bcz they are black and they will not deny them all bcz they are black. That has nothing to do with it. As Rebecca said, you would have to see the data on it before making an assumption like that.

You are right, they man not all be accepting of black people, but it does happen. I am in no way disputing that. I don't know for sure if a black/arab relationship is more accepted in Morocco than in other ME countries. How do you know this? What I am suggesting is not whether it is right or wrong, not whether Morocco is more or less accepting of these relationships than other surrounding countries, but could this have been a factor in their decision. I wouldn't rule anything out, I would think you would look at it objectively, not with the "nahhh...they wouldn't do that" attitude.

So again, no assumptions here, just rolling off possible ideas of what happened so that when the time comes all avenues are covered. I think maybe you are still stuck on the idea that I am suggesting that they could have denied it because she is black, discriminating against her. Not at all what I am saying. More what I am saying is are they saying to themselves "what is his motive to marry a black woman"......couldn't it be possible that this is what they are thinking? Just don't rule anything out, just think like a CO.

[chiquita 0]

One more note...I would not want to have the responsibilities that a CO has. Lets face it, they have a huge responsibility. All we want is a chance to prove our case at the consulate level, and to look it over objectively, not with the intent to send it back regardless of the evidence. Isn't that what we all would want? I think these CO's are feeling overwhelmed, and the quick fix is to send it back.

Quite right! Mr McKeever did say they were overwhelmed and that they needed more help if they were to look more closely at the cases since 911. So they just send back those that they dont have the time to look at.

chi