legally married?

[zyggy 9]

Just to expand on what meauxna said... you are taking a rather large risk by having any type of marriage ceremony before you enter the US. There are too many ways that one could mess up and let things slip...

In the eyes of the CBP.. if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck .. it's a duck. If it looks like your married, act like your married, and do something to suggest that you're married.. you're married. you can give all the notes and legal ramblings you want.. the CBP is just going to think that you are in fact legally married.. you're just not producing the evidence because you want to enter on a K1...

it is not the responsibility of CBP to know the marriage rules all over the world.. it's the alien's responsibility to honor the conditions of the visa.. which is that you're legally able to marry when you enter the US. If you do anything that brings that into doubt.. you're not getting in.

It's easy to prove that one is legally married as of a certain moment in time... it's difficult to prove that you're not... as far as CBP is concerned, you could have gotten married 30 seconds before you got on the plane...

[burralow 0]

What I'm curious about, and I don't know if anyone has had this experience and has an anwer, is what happens if you get religiously married and travel to the states and get legally married there on a k-1 and then start AOS. What happens at the AOS interview?

obviously, getting religiously married before entering on k-1 is a iffy subject and some people may get lucky etc and make it through POE no problem and get married.

So at the AOS interview when they have to show pics of their wedding etc and do they tell the AOS officers about their religous wedding prior to their legal wedding as all the AOS officer is interested in is that they can prove their marriage isn't fake or would the AOS officer deport the k1 holder for breaking the rules?

I'm sure there are people who have been through this situation as I'm sure a few have had religious ceremonies prior and I'm sure all of them had to apply for AOS.. just wondering if anyone knew what happened?

[meauxna 15]

So at the AOS interview when they have to show pics of their wedding etc and do they tell the AOS officers about their religous wedding prior to their legal wedding as all the AOS officer is interested in is that they can prove their marriage isn't fake or would the AOS officer deport the k1 holder for breaking the rules?

hmm, that would be an interesting one to look up. I can't think of a case of anyone who did such a thing... maybe there's more common sense in the world than I thought?

[andrewwynn 0]

It would seem to me.. legal is what actually counts.. even in the usa.. i have been to weddings where the couple weren't married after the 'i do' because it was in the wrong county.. they had to re-do their vows.. 'til the marriage license is signed and dated it was only a rehearsal. You are still engaged ... just because you practiced your vows in front of a lot of people doesn't make it legal.. now that depends on the country of course so do your homework.

-awr

[john_and_marlene 162]

It would seem to me.. legal is what actually counts..

In this case, perception is all that counts. It trumps legality and reality.

At the POE, perception is reality.

[rob&ana 0]

What I'm curious about, and I don't know if anyone has had this experience and has an anwer, is what happens if you get religiously married and travel to the states and get legally married there on a k-1 and then start AOS. What happens at the AOS interview?

obviously, getting religiously married before entering on k-1 is a iffy subject and some people may get lucky etc and make it through POE no problem and get married.

So at the AOS interview when they have to show pics of their wedding etc and do they tell the AOS officers about their religous wedding prior to their legal wedding as all the AOS officer is interested in is that they can prove their marriage isn't fake or would the AOS officer deport the k1 holder for breaking the rules?

I'm sure there are people who have been through this situation as I'm sure a few have had religious ceremonies prior and I'm sure all of them had to apply for AOS.. just wondering if anyone knew what happened?

If I had been in that situation (and I would've loved to because after AOS you're tied up working, buying a house having babies, and just being busy with your 'new life') I simply would've kept the religious ceremony off the record, not said anything at POE and not bring anything from it to the AOS interview, or use any thing from it as evidence of our relationship.

Yes, I might get torched here, because it's lying to the USCIS, but in Brazil, as in Venezuela, religious ceremonies are not valid unless you've had the civil ceremony first. If it's NOT a legal ceremony, then it should be OK. I would think... but consulting to lawyers, embassies, even the USCIS (if you can) is also a good idea. I think you are entitled to pursue whatever you want in order to find out things about your case.

Good luck!

[zyggy 9]

It would seem to me.. legal is what actually counts..

In this case, perception is all that counts. It trumps legality and reality.

At the POE, perception is reality.

well stated... but with an addition... perception is reality, unless you have evidence that in the eyes of the CBP inspector can change that perception

Remember.. it isn't the duty of the CBP to prove that you are ineligible for the benefit of entering the US.. it's the duty of the alien to prove that they ARE eligible for the benefit. If the alien brings that eligibility into doubt by their actions, it would take ironclad proof that they are in fact eligible for the benefit to be permitted entry. Again, the burden of proof is on the alien, not on the CBP. If the burden of proof is not met, then the CBP does not have to admit the alien into the US. When you're standing at the POE... you're not going to have that evidence and back home you go...

What I'm curious about, and I don't know if anyone has had this experience and has an anwer, is what happens if you get religiously married and travel to the states and get legally married there on a k-1 and then start AOS. What happens at the AOS interview?

obviously, getting religiously married before entering on k-1 is a iffy subject and some people may get lucky etc and make it through POE no problem and get married.

So at the AOS interview when they have to show pics of their wedding etc and do they tell the AOS officers about their religous wedding prior to their legal wedding as all the AOS officer is interested in is that they can prove their marriage isn't fake or would the AOS officer deport the k1 holder for breaking the rules?

I'm sure there are people who have been through this situation as I'm sure a few have had religious ceremonies prior and I'm sure all of them had to apply for AOS.. just wondering if anyone knew what happened?

If I had been in that situation (and I would've loved to because after AOS you're tied up working, buying a house having babies, and just being busy with your 'new life') I simply would've kept the religious ceremony off the record, not said anything at POE and not bring anything from it to the AOS interview, or use any thing from it as evidence of our relationship.

Yes, I might get torched here, because it's lying to the USCIS, but in Brazil, as in Venezuela, religious ceremonies are not valid unless you've had the civil ceremony first. If it's NOT a legal ceremony, then it should be OK. I would think... but consulting to lawyers, embassies, even the USCIS (if you can) is also a good idea. I think you are entitled to pursue whatever you want in order to find out things about your case.

Good luck!

No one ever said that you were lying.. or if someone states that they only have a religious marriage.. they may not be lying.

The point that is trying to be made is that if the CBP believe that a marriage ceremony has taken place, the burden of proof is on the alien that the evidence presented does not indicate that a legal marriage has taken place.

It is easy to prove that a legal marriage HAS taken place at a specific point in time... it is impossible to prove that a legal marriage has not taken place at a specific moment in time. And if you can't get that proof, then you aren't getting admitted to the US.. period.

Edited October 17, 2006 by zyggy

[Birdysboy 5]

I will attack this from a different angle. The Church's angle.

If you go into a marriage ceremony thinking it is "just a church wedding" you may be using the church to bless something that she would not bless if they knew you took this religious ceremony so lightly. If I was the marrying official, I would like to discuss it with you. The Priest/Minister is legally (and sacramentally) able to marry you. You might get clarification from them as to what a wedding actually is, what it does, what graces it imparts. In any event, you might take the Church's role a little more seriously.

A wedding is not only a legal contract between you and your spouse, it is covenant with God, blessed by the Lord, a holy sacrament of the Church. God is the most interested party to your wedding, He wants to succeed more than anyone, He wants you to be happy with your spouse.

[Randy 0]

http://www.1866usvisas.com/fianceevisa.shtml

first FAQ

"1. Can I marry my fiancée overseas and still bring her on a K-1 visa.

A: No. K-1 visas are available only to persons who are planning to be married. If the marriage occurs, you will have to file an I-130 Relative Visa petition for your spouse. The one exception to this rule is that if the marriage was religious or social ceremony only, and the marriage wasn't registered with the local government, a K-1 visa may be issued."

seems to me like its possible. I'm not saying the consulate would like it but they don't want you to be legally married and you aren't legally married. But that doesn't mean that I recommend you show up with pics of the wedding as 'proof of engagement'. but if an american law firm who specialises in immigration seems to think its the exception then i don't see why it wouldn't be the exception.

and i dont see how the POE officer would find out. i doubt any POE officers take your packet when u reach the poe and then immediately ask "did you already get married in brazil?" i'm sure they just look over the paperwork and that's all.

just my thoughts..

I fully agree with this!! I am planning on doing the same thing. Many countries separate "legal" and "religious" weddings. A religious "ONLY" ceremony that has absolutely no legal standing in the country were it was performed will not impact your K1 visa. Have a wonderful ceremony and enjoy every minute if it!!! CONGRATULATIONS

[zyggy 9]

http://www.1866usvisas.com/fianceevisa.shtml

first FAQ

"1. Can I marry my fiancée overseas and still bring her on a K-1 visa.

A: No. K-1 visas are available only to persons who are planning to be married. If the marriage occurs, you will have to file an I-130 Relative Visa petition for your spouse. The one exception to this rule is that if the marriage was religious or social ceremony only, and the marriage wasn't registered with the local government, a K-1 visa may be issued."

seems to me like its possible. I'm not saying the consulate would like it but they don't want you to be legally married and you aren't legally married. But that doesn't mean that I recommend you show up with pics of the wedding as 'proof of engagement'. but if an american law firm who specialises in immigration seems to think its the exception then i don't see why it wouldn't be the exception.

and i dont see how the POE officer would find out. i doubt any POE officers take your packet when u reach the poe and then immediately ask "did you already get married in brazil?" i'm sure they just look over the paperwork and that's all.

just my thoughts..

I fully agree with this!! I am planning on doing the same thing. Many countries separate "legal" and "religious" weddings. A religious "ONLY" ceremony that has absolutely no legal standing in the country were it was performed will not impact your K1 visa. Have a wonderful ceremony and enjoy every minute if it!!! CONGRATULATIONS

Then I hope you enjoy the real chance of having your fiancee get sent on the next plane back to her home country..

Oh and the additional one year wait until she gets either a K3 or a CR-1 that comes with the added expense of the extra visit that you'll have to take back to her home country to actually have a legal marriage...

If you want to roll the dice .. that's your business.. but don't go around encouraging others to follow your risky behavior...

Edited October 17, 2006 by zyggy

[andrewwynn 0]

I will attack this from a different angle. The Church's angle.

If you go into a marriage ceremony thinking it is "just a church wedding" you may be using the church to bless something that she would not bless if they knew you took this religious ceremony so lightly. If I was the marrying official, I would like to discuss it with you. The Priest/Minister is legally (and sacramentally) able to marry you. You might get clarification from them as to what a wedding actually is, what it does, what graces it imparts. In any event, you might take the Church's role a little more seriously.

A wedding is not only a legal contract between you and your spouse, it is covenant with God, blessed by the Lord, a holy sacrament of the Church. God is the most interested party to your wedding, He wants to succeed more than anyone, He wants you to be happy with your spouse.

Good thoughts.. exactly... you would want to make it clear with the priest/minister that that 'wedding' is only for show.. it really would be just a practice or rehersal as long as documents weren't signed. My fiancee have said 'i do' to each other but it wasn't officiated so we aren't married. If 300 people watched somebody say 'i do' it doesn't mean you are married, and i don't even see it being a risk as long as you tell it like it is.. you had a big 'show' for a reception of guests at the 'home country' before going to the usa.. if you start using the word 'wedding' it will get very confusing... and of course the whole 'when did you *really* get married in God's eyes thing comes into play.

-awr

[rob&ana 0]

I understand your points, but also understand the immigrant's position. Where in most cases, the family has no visa nor economic means to assist to a wedding in the US.

The immigrant is leaving her/his family and friends, and marriage (legal or religious) is a HUGE step in most people's life, and they want to be surrounded by loved ones. I know I would've loved to have my grandfather, for instance, in my wedding, even though I had a wonderful wedding and my parents were able to come.

I still dont see how at the POE they are going to know that you had a religious ceremony, unless you tell them, and I believe that the question is not commonly asked. It's not like you're going to carry pictures in your hands while you're going through customs.

I am not recommending anyone to do this, everyone does what they have to do at their own risk, I do recommend to the OP, to find out through whichever means he can if they can have a religious ceremony in Brazil. Is he going to be able to get it in writing? I dont think so. But I know of people who have had religious ceremonies in their countries before coming to the US, and they have successfully adjusted their status without mentioning the ceremony 'back home'

I stand by what I said before, if I had to do this again, I would've had a ceremony back home, with my WHOLE family and friends, because it was (and still is) a happy moment I would've love to share with more family members. We do think that at some point we will have a religious ceremony in Venezuela, however, life makes things a little difficult when you start to work and start taking certain responsabilities here in the US.

To the OP, good luck in your process, and I hope you get to have a nice ceremony to enjoy with family and friends.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

I agree with zyggy.... you have come this far why oh why would you want to risk everything???? Do things right have the wedding here in the US and then at a later date go back and have the religious wedding you so want... of course maybe the big fancy wedding service in a church is more important to you than your SO having issues at POE...

Good Luck

Kezzie

[SirLancelot 1]

I agree with zyggy.... you have come this far why oh why would you want to risk everything???? Do things right have the wedding here in the US and then at a later date go back and have the religious wedding you so want... of course maybe the big fancy wedding service in a church is more important to you than your SO having issues at POE...

Good Luck

Kezzie

Pray tell, how would someone have issues at the POE with a religious wedding ceremony? As another poster asked, how in hell would a border agent at the POE know of any religious ceremonies in the past? This is the part I don't get from this argument.

I think it's fine for them to have a religious ceremony. Just that they need to keep their mouth's shut and not let any government agencies know, unless specifically asked. The point is not to lie, but certainly to not voluntarily divulge any information when none have been asked.

I can't see any POE border agent specifically asking: have you two had a religious wedding ceremony in your home country?

So what would be the issues they'd encounter at the POE, pray tell?

[rob&ana 0]

I agree with zyggy.... you have come this far why oh why would you want to risk everything???? Do things right have the wedding here in the US and then at a later date go back and have the religious wedding you so want... of course maybe the big fancy wedding service in a church is more important to you than your SO having issues at POE...

Good Luck

Kezzie

Pray tell, how would someone have issues at the POE with a religious wedding ceremony? As another poster asked, how in hell would a border agent at the POE know of any religious ceremonies in the past? This is the part I don't get from this argument.

I think it's fine for them to have a religious ceremony. Just that they need to keep their mouth's shut and not let any government agencies know, unless specifically asked. The point is not to lie, but certainly to not voluntarily divulge any information when none have been asked.

I can't see any POE border agent specifically asking: have you two had a religious wedding ceremony in your home country?

So what would be the issues they'd encounter at the POE, pray tell?

And even though, if they do have a religious ceremony and they choose not to use the pictures as evidence of their relationship for the AOS interview, how would the USCIS officer conducting the interview know that they actually had one??

It's true, it's not lying... it's just not offering the information, and I would believe that two people that have succesfully gone through interviews in their 'home countries' would be smart enough to know that they can get in trouble if they say that they were 'married' before entering the US.