legally married?

[CAM13 0]

Here's a tricky one!! When I started my petition for the I-129F we picked a wedding day in her country (Brazil). That day is coming quickly. The petition was approved & is in the consular's office now. We want to get married in Brazil (just a church ceremony) before she actually gets the K-1 visa, then get legally married here in the USA. The marriage would not be a legal marriage in Brazil since there will be no marriage license or marriage certificate issued. It would not be a LEGAL marriage here in the USA either until we get married here...I'm assuming!! The U.S.A. State Department defines a spouse as: a person LEGALLY married to another. We certainly would not be common law husband & Wife. Could OR WILL the US government give us any problems since we had a marriage ceremony before she comes into the USA even though there was no marriage license issued. Keep in mind I spoke with an attorney friend of mine in Brazil & he assures me it would not be a legal marriage in Brazil. I would think if they did give us a problem for having a church ceremony in Brazil this would violate the USA's Separation Of Church & State policy. The whole reason for doing this is so we can save money on plane tickets.

[mozplay 29]

I'm sure that people from Brazil will chime in, but BE CAREFUL. If the embassy only suspects that you are already married, you can be denied. There have been people who have done this, but just be aware that in many cases, church ceremonies are considered legal ones. I would not take the word of one lawyer.. you will definitely have to do extensive research.

Mo

[JaJo 1]

I don't know how the people at the consulate might look at that, but yes, you can have a religious cerimony here that has no legal value.

Just be sure you're are not getting the civil cerimony with the religious one.

Good luck

[Kez/JWolf 6]

If the embassy or the officers at POE hear you have had a wedding service you may well be denied your K1 or entry at POE.... you would be better to wait and get married here in the states after your K1 and then later go back to Brazil and have the church wedding....

Kezzie

[raymaga 25]

I agree with Kezzie about coming to the U.S., getting legally married, and then perhaps returning to Brazil for another ceremony there afterwards.

You wouldn't want to risk all you've had to do and then get denied at the POE.

Good luck.

[joeyjoey 1]

A K-1 visa requirement is that BOTH parties must be free and able to marry. You cannot do that if you are already married. We do not want to give the Consular Officers anything that they "need" to think about!

Fernanda and I will also be getting married here in Texas first. At a later date, we'll return to Brazil and have the church wedding that she has apoken of many times!

[burralow 0]

http://www.1866usvisas.com/fianceevisa.shtml

first FAQ

"1. Can I marry my fiancée overseas and still bring her on a K-1 visa.

A: No. K-1 visas are available only to persons who are planning to be married. If the marriage occurs, you will have to file an I-130 Relative Visa petition for your spouse. The one exception to this rule is that if the marriage was religious or social ceremony only, and the marriage wasn't registered with the local government, a K-1 visa may be issued."

seems to me like its possible. I'm not saying the consulate would like it but they don't want you to be legally married and you aren't legally married. But that doesn't mean that I recommend you show up with pics of the wedding as 'proof of engagement'. but if an american law firm who specialises in immigration seems to think its the exception then i don't see why it wouldn't be the exception.

and i dont see how the POE officer would find out. i doubt any POE officers take your packet when u reach the poe and then immediately ask "did you already get married in brazil?" i'm sure they just look over the paperwork and that's all.

just my thoughts..

[Ecalos 0]

With Us Immigration you are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. Keep that in mind.

[SirLancelot 1]

The whole reason for doing this is so we can save money on plane tickets.

Please educate me, how does getting a religious wedding ceremony help you save on plane tickets? Air Brazilia offers discounts to couples who've gone through a wedding ceremony? I'm confused.

As long as your religious ceremony does NOT confer you a legal marriage status in Brazil, you are fine. Despite what all the others say, NO ONE will know--not the US Consulate in Brazil or the POE Boarder agent in the US. This is NOT illegal as they are NOT legally wed just by performing this religious ceremony. They will come to the US as individual singles and then legally marry here.

Still, I'm curious how it'll save you money on plane tickets.

[juni 0]

The whole reason for doing this is so we can save money on plane tickets.

Please educate me, how does getting a religious wedding ceremony help you save on plane tickets? Air Brazilia offers discounts to couples who've gone through a wedding ceremony? I'm confused.

As long as your religious ceremony does NOT confer you a legal marriage status in Brazil, you are fine. Despite what all the others say, NO ONE will know--not the US Consulate in Brazil or the POE Boarder agent in the US. This is NOT illegal as they are NOT legally wed just by performing this religious ceremony. They will come to the US as individual singles and then legally marry here.

Still, I'm curious how it'll save you money on plane tickets.

I think what he meant by that is ..they dont have to go back to Brazil again for the church wedding.... well assuming he is already in Brazil.....

For my country.......it does save some money.. ( currency exchange and all that )... but I just dont wanna risk it.. so I follow the "married in us-go back to home country later on" ......

[CAM13 0]

First of all thanks to all who have taken the time to weigh in on this matter. & yes Juni you are correct...round trip ticket from USA to Brazil for me, & a one-way ticket from Brazil to USA for my fiance. versus a one way ticket from Brazil to USA for my fiance & then 2 round trip tickets to Brazil & back for the wedding there...once Uncle Sam says she can leave the US. My father asked an immigration attorney here in the USA about my dilema & he says now would be the worst possible time to try this since post 9-11 & all. He says what we would be doing could be viewed as fraud since we would be married (again this would NOT be a civil marriage, just a religious one) and she would be coming in on the fiance visa. Ofcourse for them to deny her entry because of this would be rather absurd since we will be getting LEGALLY married here in the US. I think with the state department's definiton of a spouse being one who is LEGALLY married to another they shouldn't give us any problems...BUT I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did. I'm gonna try to talk to someone at the embassy or someone in USCIS (immigration officer)who can give me a definate answer, & try to get that in writing. I bet the immigration lawyer is right, but as someone who deals with attorneys on a regular basis, I can assure you they are not always up to date on everything, & as they themselves will tell you a lot of law is interpretive. I just hate this problem because we've already sent out invitations, bought the wedding dress, and done alot of other wedding preparations. Once I've spoken with someone official I'll be sure to tell everyone what they said. Maybe I can help someone from getting in the same predicament I'm in.

[diadromous mermaid 36]

As well prepared as you are, don't overlook the human element either. After exchanging vows even if purely religious and not legal, you have to be sure you don't slip and refer to each other as husband or wife, in one of your deep and longing post-marital gazes in front of the POE agent. We have a member, (brokenheart?), who is living the harsh consequences of her fiancé's slip of tongue at the POE.

Edited October 15, 2006 by diadromous mermaid

[SirLancelot 1]

First of all thanks to all who have taken the time to weigh in on this matter. & yes Juni you are correct...round trip ticket from USA to Brazil for me, & a one-way ticket from Brazil to USA for my fiance. versus a one way ticket from Brazil to USA for my fiance & then 2 round trip tickets to Brazil & back for the wedding there...once Uncle Sam says she can leave the US. My father asked an immigration attorney here in the USA about my dilema & he says now would be the worst possible time to try this since post 9-11 & all. He says what we would be doing could be viewed as fraud since we would be married (again this would NOT be a civil marriage, just a religious one) and she would be coming in on the fiance visa. Ofcourse for them to deny her entry because of this would be rather absurd since we will be getting LEGALLY married here in the US. I think with the state department's definiton of a spouse being one who is LEGALLY married to another they shouldn't give us any problems...BUT I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did. I'm gonna try to talk to someone at the embassy or someone in USCIS (immigration officer)who can give me a definate answer, & try to get that in writing. I bet the immigration lawyer is right, but as someone who deals with attorneys on a regular basis, I can assure you they are not always up to date on everything, & as they themselves will tell you a lot of law is interpretive. I just hate this problem because we've already sent out invitations, bought the wedding dress, and done alot of other wedding preparations. Once I've spoken with someone official I'll be sure to tell everyone what they said. Maybe I can help someone from getting in the same predicament I'm in.

Sorry Cam13, reading your post above reveals how uninformed you are about this entire process, which is fine as everyone begins any process uninformed in the beginning.

Your assumptions that you can get someone in "authority" to tell you something definitive and get that "in writing" is where you absolutely reveal your ignorance and innocense. You will certainly not get any definitive answers and please note that the Visa Officer at the Consulate as well as the Point of Entry border agent has HUGE descretionary powers to deny. First, the VO can deny your visa if s/he suspects anything. And secondly, even if the VO approves and you have a visa issued, the POE border agent can deny your SO entry into the US if s/he suspects anything. So don't go into this having a false sense of security. Even if you get anything in writing from any source, the VO has the ultimate power to decide whether to issue the visa or to deny. And likewise, the POE border agent has the final say whether or not your SO can be allowed entry into the US on her K-1 visa. Your written note from anyone won't mean jack to them.

On the other hand, you do NOT have a problem if you don't tell them you had any religious ceremony. As I've said before, so long as the marriage ceremony does not confer LEGAL marriage status to you in Brazil, then you are fine. Go ahead and do it. BUT, don't go around advertising this fact and certainly don't go bragging about it to the VO or the POE border agent. Tell them firmly that you two are NOT married--which is infact true--and you'll be fine. And again, make absolutely sure that after this religious wedding ceremony that you won't be considered legally married in Brazil.

[meauxna 15]

Of course for them to deny her entry because of this would be rather absurd since we will be getting LEGALLY married here in the US. I think with the state department's definiton of a spouse being one who is LEGALLY married to another they shouldn't give us any problems...BUT I wouldn't be surprised at all if they did. I'm gonna try to talk to someone at the embassy or someone in USCIS (immigration officer)who can give me a definate answer, & try to get that in writing.

You're welcome to search posts by user 'zyggy', an ex-CBP officer who explains how even he has refused entry to K-1 couples in this situation. You're also welcome to try to get something in writing, but I'd only do it if I didn't have anything else to be doing that day--I don't think you will succeed with that.

There have been many couples who wind up with the foreign party waiting outside the US for an additional year because of this move. I'm sure there have also been many who have succeeded, but not 'just because it's a dumb rule'. They were either lucky or planned carefully.

That's the reason for groups like this; to let you know the things that REALLY happen in the real world. Individual attorneys often can't keep up with the many details for the many countries.

Personally, I'd approach discussing this with the Embassy with Extreme Caution.

hmm, I see SirL has answered more strongly.

[Caladan 19]

Nothing to add to the info here except a suggestion: why not have in Brazil an elaborate engagement party? Definitely no legal confusion, her family would still be able to celebrate close to the wedding, and you could always do a ring exchange/reception/rededication sometime later, as I imagine the two of you will want to visit her family at some point.