Marriage Protection & Recourse in Law and Faith

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If there are children involved there is very little left to prove.

Sin is God's to create; He has not shared this authority with any scholar or jurist, He did not make marriage nor procreation between a Muslim woman and an ahl al kitab man illegal, so there is no sin. I had the protections required by Islam, you don't, so my marriage was real, yours ain't.

You mention recourse but recourse for what? inheritance? what's a will for? divorce? does Islam require us to wait a full year for a divorce? To make sure he doesn't marry anyone else? Well, like I stated... taking away his rights is not my right.

You refuse to engage this issue with any seriousness.

You don't know? But yet you mentioned it against me???

I have stated what I know about it, that you resent it and use it to justify living together. Come to think of it, you justify living together in defense of your paper marriage alot, but you were beating up on women who have sex without being married . . . hmmmm. More evidence of how self-serving your rationale is.

what is a paper marriage? when I register my marriage here will I not recieve yet another piece of paper? When the court refuses to uphold it is it really anymore than firewood? You placed them above our religion when you make religious rulings based on them.

Why bother to register it here? US laws suck and Egyptian laws are often unIslamic (your thoughts, not mine). Just live together; you have the same rights; you've already said that.

How much more protection could I have??? I followed the law!!! The LAW hasn't protected me!! No one should ever be married unless they're rich and can follow the man around the country/world filing papers wherever he chooses to hide??

Please refer to my last response.

I am not pretending to be married.. I am married. Immigration has, so far, accepted the fact that we consider ourselves married... the state I live in would recognize my marriage even without registration if he was a resident here.... the only law that I have to comply with is the requirement to have this marriage registered IF I want him to have permission to stay here with me.

Are you filing for a K3 or CR1? If not, immigration doesn't give a darn what you THINK you are. The feds don't even recognize common law marriages for the purpose of immigration. But, I ask again, why are you cherry picking laws? The ones you comply with from those you don't comply with? This is very childish, sorry to haev to say.

So we're back to if no court exists to uphold Islamic rights... does that mean no one can marry?

No, it just means you who wants all things Islamic (as you define them), are SOL.

I don't have low expectations... if I did I would have settled for another non-muslim man.

You could have at least found a Muslim who would not have convinced you that a piece of paper with no rights as a wife was good enough for you. My deceased husband and my current husband both honored me with my rights as a wife, and I have no complaints about child support. It is not the religion og the man that defines him, it is how he lives God's Word, and mine do.

I have not used it so you're misrepresenting me in an attempt to rile other user's emotions against me.

You are kidding, right, that you haven't used that word? All I do is send in your posts. You dig the holes yourself.

Veiled Princess Yesterday, 10:32 AM Post #95

Whah whah whah... I wanna marry kufar... I wanna throw off my hijab... I wanna run my man... I wanna make up my own rules and live my life based on my desires and still claim to be such a great muslim and then judge others because they don't agree with me

To be fair, this was not posted yesterday, but it was posted less than a month ago, from you to me. I have more examples of you using that word that you say you didn't use, if you want to see them, Layla.

Keep posting, you're doing my work for me.

Edited October 14, 2006 by szsz

[Veiled Princess 1]

Sin is God's to create; He has not shared this authority with any scholar or jurist, He did not make marriage nor procreation between a Muslim woman and an ahl al kitab man illegal, so there is no sin. I had the protections required by Islam, you don't, so my marriage was real, yours ain't.

Muslims are forbidden to marry non-believers... people of the book are still non-believers... the only exception to this is that muslim men are allowed to marry chaste women from the people of the book... you're not a man and you didn't marry a woman... you were in violation of God's law.

You refuse to engage this issue with any seriousness.

I am very serious... what you mean to say is that I'm not willing to sit at your feet and treat you like the shaykha that you want to be.

I have stated what I know about it, that you resent it and use it to justify living together. Come to think of it, you justify living together in defense of your paper marriage alot, but you were beating up on women who have sex without being married . . . hmmmm. More evidence of how self-serving your rationale is.

I wasn't beating up on anyone... It's wrong to sleep together without being in a committed marriage. I have named no one personally on that just that it's my belief that it's wrong and should not be allowed. I have also said this should not apply to those who are in a committed relationship... consider themselves married... have announce their commitment to the society... whatever.

Why bother to register it here? US laws suck and Egyptian laws are often unIslamic (your thoughts, not mine). Just live together; you have the same rights; you've already said that.

Because immigration law says I have to if I want my husband's GC.

Are you filing for a K3 or CR1? If not, immigration doesn't give a darn what you THINK you are. The feds don't even recognize common law marriages for the purpose of immigration. But, I ask again, why are you cherry picking laws? The ones you comply with from those you don't comply with? This is very childish, sorry to haev to say.

Immigration law does not dictate my religion.

No, it just means you who wants all things Islamic (as you define them), are SOL.

I see... so what rights exactly is it that you're concerned about if it's not the rights that God has given us?

You could have at least found a Muslim who would not have convinced you that a piece of paper wth no rights as a wife was good enough for you. My deceased husband and my current husband both honored me that way, and I have no complaints about child support. It is not the religion og the man that defines him, it is how he lives God's Word, and mine do.

My husband did not convince me of anything... I can read and form my own opinions. What are my rights as a wife that a marriage license from the US protects again? It is the piety of the man that defines him. My man is very pious... at the very least recognizing the oneness of Allah and not worshipping a man or a cross in His place.

You are kidding, right, that you haven't used that word? All I do is send in your posts. You dig the holes yourself.

OK I did throw it out in a fit of anger sorry.

I have not used it in this thread or any other that is going at this time so your claim that I used it recently is a lie... this is not surprising coming for you.

To be fair, this was not posted yesterday, but it was posted less than a month ago, from you to me. I have more examples of you using that word that you say you didn't use, if you want to see them, Layla.

I don't know about less than a month ago... it was posted the last time you got yourself banned because of attacking me like this on this board over this exact same topic.

Edited October 14, 2006 by Veiled Princess

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Muslims are forbidden to marry non-believers... people of the book are still non-believers... the only exception to this is that muslim men are allowed to marry chaste women from the people of the book... you're not a man and you didn't marry a woman... you were in violation of God's law.

Not true. There is no exception for Muslim men because there is no prohibition against marriage with the ahl al kitab. Those that can enter heaven are among those we can marry. Allah says there will be ahl al kitab among those who enter heaven and He didn't say it will only be ahl al kitab women.

I am very serious... what you mean to say is that I'm not willing to sit at your feet and treat you like the shaykha that you want to be.

I mean you are not serious about this issue.

I wasn't beating up on anyone... It's wrong to sleep together without being in a committed marriage. I have named no one personally on that just that it's my belief that it's wrong and should not be allowed. I have also said this should not apply to those who are in a committed relationship... consider themselves married... have announce their commitment to the society... whatever.

Considering yourself married is fine for common law, but it's not Islam.

Because immigration law says I have to if I want my husband's GC.

You will do what is required when it suits you, as I have said. You are filing for a K1 tho because you do not yet have a husband. They do not care what you call him, they only care what he actually is to you, and that your FIANCE. It is the same in our faith.

Immigration law does not dictate my religion.

Neither does wishful thinking.

I see... so what rights exactly is it that you're concerned about if it's not the rights that God has given us?

I am concerned that you are misleading other that what you have done is sanctioned by our faith. It is not.

My husband did not convince me of anything... I can read and form my own opinions. What are my rights as a wife that a marriage license from the US protects again? It is the piety of the man that defines him. My man is very pious... at the very least recognizing the oneness of Allah and not worshipping a man or a cross in His place.

Then, don't get a marriage license, you hate them so much. Don't get one here, don't get one in Egypt. At one time, you made the choice to be a pagan. You have little credibility to judge anyone's piety.

OK I did throw it out in a fit of anger sorry.

I have not used it in this thread or any other that is going at this time so your claim that I used it recently is a lie... this is not surprising coming for you.

I have not lied, that post is from the last week in September 2006. You see what you want to see, Layla. That is your problem. It rarely serves anyone well to be that way.

I don't know about less than a month ago... it was posted the last time you got yourself banned because of attacking me like this on this board over this exact same topic.

If I was banned, I wouldn't be here. There are many things you do not know about that and I would be careful if I were you for you are not immune to your own poison.

Edited October 14, 2006 by szsz

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There are 7 people who voted for no protection in marriage. Do any of you plan not to marry?

[Bosco 1]

How did any choices in my previous marriage determine whether or not I should or should not recieve child support????

It is the very laws that you defend as being above our religion that deny me child support and the fact that the man is not a God-fearing person who cares about pleasing his Creator.... I do not have this problem with my current husband.... he is a good muslim man alhamdulilah.

I was married according to the laws of this country to that pig and both my children were born within that marriage.... I had to work like a donkey to be able to afford my right to a divorce from him so that I could get on with my life.... but I still took the legal course for that... now, that same court who holds my divorce/custody/support agreement in their registrar, tells me "I'm sorry, legally there is just nothing we can do to enforce this piece of paper.... unless of course you want to pay thousands $$$$ to an attorney to take it to another state... of course then he could just skip to the next state and still would not be enforcable".

So please tell me my dear darling caring about my rights sister..... what has the law of this country done for me that I couldn't have just done for myself???????

This really isn't any different in most countries, including Islamic countries. The rights of divorced women or children resulting from a marriage are often unenforced. In other cases, men skip out. There have been articles about Saudi men marrying Moroccan women, fathering children and leaving them high and dry.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Not true. There is no exception for Muslim men because there is no prohibition against marriage with the ahl al kitab. Those that can enter heaven are among those we can marry. Allah says there will be ahl al kitab among those who enter heaven and He didn't say it will only be ahl al kitab women.

I disagree and we have beat this horse to death... I don't give a ####### who you call youself married to... it's not my business... I'm just showing what it's like when someone accuses you of something.

I have shown many proofs why I believe marriage to non-muslim men are not allowed and I'm not the only muslim who believes this... in fact, you are part of the minority in that belief.

I mean you are not serious about this issue.

Yes I am which is why I have repeatedly asked you for proof to your statements.

Considering yourself married is fine for common law, but it's not Islam.

You said earlier that it had to be recognized by the society to be legal in Islam... so if common law marriage is recognized why would it be anti-Islamic?

You can't make up your mind at all. You're not even open to the possibility that you could be wrong because you honestly think you know everything

You will do what is required when it suits you, as I have said. You are filing for a K1 tho because you do not yet have a husband. They do not care what you call him, they only care what he actually is to you, and that your FIANCE. It is the same in our faith.

There is absolutely no law in this country that says that I have to register any marriage to consider myself as married... that being that, I am in violation of no law... so to keep making the claim that I have not done something that is required of me is nonsense.

You are not the authority on what is and is not valid in our faith.

Neither does wishful thinking.

Neither does a fake VJ mufti issuing fake fatawa on a message board.

I am concerned that you are misleading other that what you have done is sanctioned by our faith. It is not.

I believe it is allowed and I have shown the proof why I believe that... you have shown sqat but your opinions.

Then, don't get a marriage license, you hate them so much. Don't get one here, don't get one in Egypt. At one time, you made the choice to be a pagan. You have little credibility to judge anyone's piety.

I'll do whatever I want and you are not anyone to dictate to me what to or not to do about anything.

At one time... but I was lucky enough to find Islam and smart enough to change my ways alhmauldilah. As has already been discussed... being born into and raised in the religion does not make you a better muslim than anyone else.

I have not lied, that post is from the last week in September 2006. You see what you want to see, Layla. That is your problem. It rarely serves anyone well to be that way.

Once.. out of anger at your attacks against me. There was no date on what you posted either.

If I was banned, I wouldn't be here. There are many things you do not know about that and I would be careful if I were you for you are not immune to your own poison.

Oh excuse me... that was when you were suspended for your attacks against me.

I don't attack anyone here... with the exception of you but then only after you've attacked me first. In the other thread I actually came in agreeing with you...

This really isn't any different in most countries, including Islamic countries. The rights of divorced women or children resulting from a marriage are often unenforced. In other cases, men skip out. There have been articles about Saudi men marrying Moroccan women, fathering children and leaving them high and dry.

So does that make all the marriages in the world invalid????

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There have been articles about Saudi men marrying Moroccan women, fathering children and leaving them high and dry.

The problem with this is that Arab countries don't recognize the woman's rights when she marries a foreigner. A Moroccan woman married to a Saudi becomes an adjunct of her husband, and she loses many rights of citizenship. This practice is from the same belief as the so-called ban on Muslim women marrying non-Muslim men. In fiqh, marriage law is derived from slavery law, and wives are the property of the husband. He defines her; in fiqh it's known as "kaa'fa", the law of equality. It is a custom that predates Islam but is still employed to keep women under male authority.

A woman is not marry someone beneath her because that will diminish her social status. An Arab woman is not to marry a non-Arab man, a Muslim woman is not to marry a non-Muslim man, because Muslims and Arabs are superior to non-Arabs and non-Muslims. This clearly goes against Islam and it is something we are petitioning the King to correct in Morocco, but there is much opposition against it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I disagree and we have beat this horse to death... I don't give a ####### who you call youself married to... it's not my business... I'm just showing what it's like when someone accuses you of something.

I have shown many proofs why I believe marriage to non-muslim men are not allowed and I'm not the only muslim who believes this... in fact, you are part of the minority in that belief.

You may comment on what you wish to comment on, I will comment on what I wish to comment on. What it's like for me whan I am accused of something is obviously not what it's like for you. You get all defensive and whine. I don't care because I consider the source.

As for the permissibility of Muslim women marrying men of the Book, you, who INSIST on proof from the Quran and Sunnah only, have produced NOTHING to show that it is haram. Not one thing. But you can demean women who sleep with men they are not married to and demean real marriages in God's name, but you cannot meet the test of a real marriage in Islam by what the Quran requires, and I am not talking merely what the ceremony is about, I'm talking about MARRIAGE, something you don't have.

Yes I am which is why I have repeatedly asked you for proof to your statements.

Honey, I have given and given, so much so that people PM me to ask why I waste time on such a hard-headed woman. It's not for your sake, that's for sure. You are lost.

You said earlier that it had to be recognized by the society to be legal in Islam... so if common law marriage is recognized why would it be anti-Islamic?

I didn't say it was anti-Islam, I said it was not Islam and I put that in context. Marriage in Islam is not common law, which is from British law. Frankly, I'm confused about that you want. You want to be married in secular common law or in Islam? Do you want to be Muslim or non-Muslim? Do you want divine laws as they are or to make them up as you go along?

You can't make up your mind at all. You're not even open to the possibility that you could be wrong because you honestly think you know everything

Well, not everything, but I know a dodge when I see it, and you are dodging and weaving, making all kinds of crazy claims.

There is absolutely no law in this country that says that I have to register any marriage to consider myself as married... that being that, I am in violation of no law... so to keep making the claim that I have not done something that is required of me is nonsense.

I'd like to see you apply that logic to the IRS. Consider away, but don't expect all to accept it or allow you to claim it's part of Islam without challenge. That's all I'm saying.

You are not the authority on what is and is not valid in our faith.

And you are? You're a legal cherry picker in our faith. You think you're married, and voila! magically, it is so. Well, in that case, I'm still a virgin.

Edited October 14, 2006 by szsz

[Bosco 1]

This really isn't any different in most countries, including Islamic countries. The rights of divorced women or children resulting from a marriage are often unenforced. In other cases, men skip out. There have been articles about Saudi men marrying Moroccan women, fathering children and leaving them high and dry.

So does that make all the marriages in the world invalid????

I don't know what is has to do with the validity of marriages. It has to do with the protections that should be afforded the parties involved if the marriage fails.

My personal feeling is that we don't shuck the rights available to us, regardless of how imperfect they are. We fight to maintain them, enforce them, improve them and seek more. If we toss them aside because we find them flawed, we can easily lose them.

Edited October 14, 2006 by Bosco

[Sofiyya 1,687]

My personal feeling is that we don't shuck the rights available to us, regardless of how imperfect they are. We fight to maintain them, enforce them, improve them and seek more. If we toss them aside because we find them flawed, we can easily lose them.

Ameen!

[Veiled Princess 1]

Honey, I have given and given, so much so that people PM me to ask why I waste time on such a hard-headed woman. It's not for your sake, that's for sure. You are lost.

Funny... I have gotten those same PMs about you

I have been instructed not to talk to you anymore and I don't wanna get kicked off this site becuase I need it so buh-bye now.

I don't know what is has to do with the validity of marriages. It has to do with the protections that should be afforded the parties involved if the marriage fails.

My personal feeling is that we don't shuck the rights available to us, regardless of how imperfect they are. We fight to maintain them, enforce them, improve them and seek more. If we toss them aside because we find them flawed, we can easily lose them.

Ok but this is about the validity of marriage... if those rights are not enforced then does that make the marriage invalid as others have claimed?

Maybe you can give me some examples of exactly what rights a woman is giving up if she does not have her marriage registered with the govt?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Funny... I have gotten those same PMs about you

I don't doubt it! There are all kinds in the world.

I have been instructed not to talk to you anymore and I don't wanna get kicked off this site becuase I need it so buh-bye now.

More evidence that there is a God! Alhamdulillah!

[Veiled Princess 1]

I have been instructed not to talk to you anymore and I don't wanna get kicked off this site becuase I need it so buh-bye now.

More evidence that there is a God! Alhamdulillah!

Of course that does mean that if I don't talk to you and you continue to call my name or make reference to me in your posts that would mean that you're attacking me and be a violation of TOS

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Of course that does mean that if I don't talk to you and you continue to call my name or make reference to me in your posts that would mean that you're attacking me and be a violation of TOS

I would have to attack you to attack you. Merely refering to you is not a violation of the TOS, using your name is not a violation of the TOS, correcting erroneous claims about Islam is not a violation of the TOS. I defy you not to correct claims against Islam you believe to be untrue. Let's see how long you last.

PS - If you dont' want to be around me, get off this thread. I'm the OP and I will participate.

[Veiled Princess 1]

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