Why the obsession with Muslims and sex?

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

In 2008, Naomi Wolf wrote about the secret world "behind the veil", where she gave a glance into the supposed secret sexual lives of Muslim women. After interviewing Muslim women in a couple of countries, Wolf gushes about an exotic and tantalising world of Muslim women —- who also enjoy beauty products and sex. Shocker.

No I don't. People are curious about the stereotypes, only to find out, well, the above quote.

We all have sexual desires and we shouldn't be ashamed of it.

they have everything in mena that they have in western society, including openly gay people although they do better living in large cities.

They don't scream it from the rooftops but even gays have their place in mena society although its not always easy.

They even have openly gay rai singers..there is everything in mena that there is everywhere else.. good and bad.. I dont know what Naomi is trying to prove.. She just wants to sell books. People are really the same everywhere as much as we would like to separate them. I do think that its much harder for a mena woman to change her station in life but I did see that when women relocated to larger cities, they could do more of what they wanted to

[sandinista! 1,816]

Exactly. The long, strange, weird history of it exists and continues, despite some people's complete oblivion. There's interest in other people and how they do things. Anthropology is fun! And then there's straight up orientalism.

What makes sex and the use/appreciation of beauty products by Muslim women so exotic and tantalizing? I think that's the question. Unfortunaelty I think it highlights the extreme "otherness" and unrelatedness many people feel towards Muslim women. Being fascinated that Muslim women use beauty products and have sex is pretty lame in my book. Labelling it exotic and tantalizing is just bizarre - anyone who finds that fact that Muslimahs have sex or use beauty products must have concluded before this discovery that they did not. This assumption is what leads to the surprise and fascination. Again, I think it all highlights a disturbing generalization/assumption to begin with.

Sorry for typos, etc - iPhone typing always results in typos for me.

[JohnR! 5,495]

1338506648[/url]' post='5411420']

what i want to know is where does the non-muslim obsession with muslims' sex lives come from?

there are lots of people right here in the us who have similar cultural/religious guidelines regarding sexual behavior. but it doesn't spark nearly as much interest or speculation. why is that?

IMHO it stems from people with too much time in their hands, which affords them the luxury of minding the sex lives of others... If everyone took care of their own sex life with the same gusto as they do others' the world might be a better place...

In the case of Muslims, in particular, it seems many still get perplexed by finding out that Muslims are no different than anyone else and there is a positive side to this obsession: it give us insight into a culture and religion that has been subjected to many unjust and untrue criticism. On a positive note, the more we learn about that which we don't know, the better off we are in that we begin to perceive that down here on the ground we are just people trying to make the best of/with our lives. The more we know the better we are at keeping ignorance - the mother of all prejudice - at bay.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Gegel

[NY_BX 397]

What makes sex and the use/appreciation of beauty products by Muslim women so exotic and tantalizing? I think that's the question. Unfortunaelty I think it highlights the extreme "otherness" and unrelatedness many people feel towards Muslim women. Being fascinated that Muslim women use beauty products and have sex is pretty lame in my book. Labelling it exotic and tantalizing is just bizarre - anyone who finds that fact that Muslimahs have sex or use beauty products must have concluded before this discovery that they did not. This assumption is what leads to the surprise and fascination. Again, I think it all highlights a disturbing generalization/assumption to begin with.

Sorry for typos, etc - iPhone typing always results in typos for me.

I agree...

Again, why is sexuality a tool for judgement of character?

[NY_BX 397]

IMHO it stems from people with too much time in their hands, which affords them the luxury of minding the sex lives of others... If everyone took care of their own sex life with the same gusto as they do others' the world might be a better place...

In the case of Muslims, in particular, it seems many still get perplexed by finding out that Muslims are no different than anyone else and there is a positive side to this obsession: it give us insight into a culture and religion that has been subjected to many unjust and untrue criticism. On a positive note, the more we learn about that which we don't know, the better off we are in that we begin to perceive that down here on the ground we are just people trying to make the best of/with our lives. The more we know the better we are at keeping ignorance - the mother of all prejudice - at bay.

Best words!

[Tough_Era 71]

The eye of Love to every flaw is blind, While the eye of hatred reveals all flaws.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Exactly. The long, strange, weird history of it exists and continues, despite some people's complete oblivion. There's interest in other people and how they do things. Anthropology is fun! And then there's straight up orientalism.

I dont even know why this is a topic honestly. In Moroccan and Algerian culture, there are strict muslims, there are secular muslims and there are people that are somewhere in between.

In popular culture they talk about sex and love but not overtly, more by painting a picture

Cheb Khaled's Baraka with Cheba Zahouania is about a house that they used to meet at.

Nothing is overt. It doesnt mean it never happened or happens and yes there are dual cultural expectations of men and women

Making love in the little house BARAKA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY3W3jITXvU&feature=related

Everything is there that is here but just is varying degrees..

Sometimes sex is also done different ways not to compromise virginity so that the girl doesnt get in trouble. But people have sex before marriage over there too..sometimes not going all the way.. sometimes going all the way and then the guy marries someone else.. etc....and sometimes the couple gets married.. It depends

There are so many things that unless you deeply understand the culture and spend a lot of time around them, you might not know. And being married to someone is not enough to learn because spouses dont show you everything sometimes. You learn by watching, visiting and just being around the people from that culture.

This song for example...I never knew the deeper meaning behind BARAKA but if you do, then you understand the whole subculture of sneaking off to mess around.

When I was in Algeria, I actually saw young couples meeting in the Sacre Couer Church to sit and hold hands because they knew NO ONE would go there LOL.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Beauty for Ashes

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I dont even know why this is a topic honestly. In Moroccan and Algerian culture, there are strict muslims, there are secular muslims and there are people that are somewhere in between.

In popular culture they talk about sex and love but not overtly, more by painting a picture

Cheb Khaled's Baraka with Cheba Zahouania is about a house that they used to meet at.

Nothing is overt. It doesnt mean it never happened or happens and yes there are dual cultural expectations of men and women

Making love in the little house BARAKA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY3W3jITXvU&feature=related

Everything is there that is here but just is varying degrees..

Sometimes sex is also done different ways not to compromise virginity so that the girl doesnt get in trouble. But people have sex before marriage over there too..sometimes not going all the way.. sometimes going all the way and then the guy marries someone else.. etc....and sometimes the couple gets married.. It depends

There are so many things that unless you deeply understand the culture and spend a lot of time around them, you might not know. And being married to someone is not enough to learn because spouses dont show you everything sometimes. You learn by watching, visiting and just being around the people from that culture.

This song for example...I never knew the deeper meaning behind BARAKA but if you do, then you understand the whole subculture of sneaking off to mess around.

When I was in Algeria, I actually saw young couples meeting in the Sacre Couer Church to sit and hold hands because they knew NO ONE would go there LOL.

Rai is very popular in Morocco and is played every where there, loved there. But RAI is exclusively Algerian and from the party city of Oran...where the americans were stationed in the 1940s and 50s after the war and during ww2 ( there is a little known war cemetary there that you cant even find on the internet) and it influenced the development of rai which was developed out of gasba. Cheikha Rimitti, a orphaned bar girl and prostitute used to sing of love and sing all kinds of baudy lyrics.

there is a song by cheikha rimitti called our love affair is over I am getting married

Kima Jat Jat...He s breaking it off with his girlfriend

Edited June 1, 2012 by Beauty for Ashes

[~Jackie~ 30]

sex sex sex SEXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX omg lightbulb moment...I can write the MENA version of 50 shades (seriously some of them have some F'd up ideas about sex)

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Exactly. The long, strange, weird history of it exists and continues, despite some people's complete oblivion. There's interest in other people and how they do things. Anthropology is fun! And then there's straight up orientalism.

Orientalism is an art movement from the late 1800's. I am not exactly understanding how you are using it in this sentence. Are you saying that some people are just obsessed with the arabic world or muslims or both? Frankly, I don't consider Morocco or Algeria part of the arabic world. Both countries are very very very different from the middle east and even Egypt in so many ways. When I think of the word Orientalism, I think of FA Bridgeman and the painters from around the world who went to North Africa to paint. I really don't understand why anyone would honestly care about sexuality over there. We have so much deviance here in the US, with molesters, sex offenders etc. I also don't understand why anyone would write about it unless they are implying they are uncovering some hidden world, which frankly in Morocco and Algeria is not as hidden. I think its a big mistake to lump all mena countries together because honestly, they are very different in many ways and in some ways have NOTHING in common.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

sex sex sex SEXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX omg lightbulb moment...I can write the MENA version of 50 shades (seriously some of them have some F'd up ideas about sex)

Yep

And honestly , sometimes their opinions change based on what day it is, who they are around, what is on their mind at the moment and how close it is to ramadan ( sorry thats true..right around ramadan, everybody gets super religious, even ones that normally party all the time..

[Nasturtium 500]

I believe, but I could be wrong, that Sandinista is referencing Orientalism by Edward Said. His theory has since been revised in newer scholarship, but is still considered seminal. Newer scholarship is looking into a deeper range of complexities... so not entirely refuting Said but more adding to and revising. Said defined Orientalism as being the prejudice Westerners of a Eurocentric viewpoint impose and place on Arab and Islamic peoples (not Jews or Israelis). He believed this to be a continuum from the Middle Ages onward, if I recall my Said correctly. It has been a while lol. Anyway, he brought to point the Victorian obsession with the Middle East-- the romanticism of the harem, the brutality/sexuality of the men in Victorian romance novels for women (the whole getting kidnapped by the Arab guy and being forced into his harem or to marry him or whatever), the paintings which always illustrated Arab women as sexual, coy, and whatnot, etc.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I believe, but I could be wrong, that Sandinista is referencing Orientalism by Edward Said. His theory has since been revised in newer scholarship, but is still considered seminal. Newer scholarship is looking into a deeper range of complexities... so not entirely refuting Said but more adding to and revising. Said defined Orientalism as being the prejudice Westerners of a Eurocentric viewpoint impose and place on Arab and Islamic peoples (not Jews or Israelis). He believed this to be a continuum from the Middle Ages onward, if I recall my Said correctly. It has been a while lol. Anyway, he brought to point the Victorian obsession with the Middle East-- the romanticism of the harem, the brutality/sexuality of the men in Victorian romance novels for women (the whole getting kidnapped by the Arab guy and being forced into his harem or to marry him or whatever), the paintings which always illustrated Arab women as sexual, coy, and whatnot, etc.

*Swoons*

[Nasturtium 500]

*Swoons*

That's exactly how my relationship went, isn't that how yours also went? LOL

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

That's exactly how my relationship went, isn't that how yours also went? LOL

Took months to get the sand out of my slippers...