Non-Legal Social Weddings

[MichaelSutisien 1]

Greetings,

I am new to this site and will begin starting a K1 Visa for my Indonesian-Chinese Fiancee. I believe that everything will go smoothly with Immigration, but I do have one concern. I am a US citizen and my Fiancee is a Indonesian citizen who is Chinese. We had a non-legal Social Wedding or what she calls a Chinese Wedding (non0legal) or otherwise known as a Commitment Ceremony according to Indonesian standards. We are both Christians and because of the Chinese Ceremony her family and Church accepts me as her husband even though the Indonesian government still considers her "Single" since our Chinese Wedding was a non-legal one and not registered with the Indonesian government. In our hearts we consider ourselves as husband and wife even though out Wedding/Marriage was not a legal one. My fear is the I am afraid that the USCIS might think that I am filing for the wrong type of Visa. How do I adviad this misunderstand to prevent any delays with my K1 filing? Our commitment to each other is real to the point that most of our emails we refer to each other as husband and wife. I know that I can still bring her to the USA on a K1 Visa. I just want to advoid any misunderstanding which might cause delays with Immigration. Any suggestions?

Michael Vernon Harper

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

**** Moving from AOS to K1 fiance visa forum ****

You are right to be concerned, and not just about a delay but a denial with charges of miss-representation.

Definitely do not show photos of the wedding at the interview, and do not show any of the emails where you refer to eachother as husband and wife- stop that immediately. There is also a big issue if the embassy enquired with friends/ family/ neighbours, and gets told you are married.

Is there a reason you didn't get legally married at the same time? Would you be able to do that now-ish, and then petition for a cR-1 spousal visa?

[eaglewest 9]

Due to your post, the fact is you definitely got married, but did not register with indonesian government. To prevent yourself from violating the term of K1 visa, you should choose spousal visa. Remember that consulates and consular officers knows well about the custom and culture in countries they work.

[panpan81 0]

correct me if i'm wrong, i believe i read somewhere in vj that as long as its not registered as legal marriage, you can apply for k1 visa. but yes, don't show them any of the wedding pictures, and have a civil wedding when both of you already in states good luck

[panpan81 0]

oh and spouse visa will require marriage certificate which you don't have, so for me, k1 it is maybe you can call or email uscis and make sure about type of visa that you need

[MichaelSutisien 1]

Thank you for your replies. To answer your question unlike the USA it is somewhat complex to get married in Indonesia. I wanted us to wait for a legal marriage in Hawaii where I lived. We had the Indonesian-Chinese Commitment Wedding because it would be impossible for her family to get visas to come to the USA to attend our legal marriage. This was the next best thing for them and it was also my understanding that I could still be able to bring her here on a K1 Visa since the USCIS would still consider her as "single". My only concern is making certain that the USCIS fully understand that we had a non-legal Indonesian wedding ceremony and not a legal one. To me it was like a "betrothal" marriage like Joseph and Mary had in the Bible so I was in full agreement to the Ceremony because it was better then just having an American style formal engagement in Indonesia. We are both Christians but all of her family and relatives are Chinese Buddhists. We also did not have a legal marriage in Indonesia because our Social Wedding happened on my first visit to her and I already knew that Immigration usually frowns on couples getting married on their first visit to each other, thus the Commitment Ceremony seemed like a good logical compromise because her family and relatives and friends and 117 other guests would get to see her in a "absolutely serious" relationship to a foreign American Man and I could also get legally married to her in the USA. Unfortunately the Indonesian government expects all pre-married couples to have an Official Formal Engagement Announcement thus I am hesitant to hide our Commitment Ceremony in case the Jakarta Consulate decides to call one of her friends or relatives to verify our "serious relationship" for everyone there accepts ss as being married in accordance to Indonesian social customs even though it is unregistered and non-legal. I think that we will most likely not have any problems with the Jakarta Consulate since (I'm guessing) that they would understand these things. It is the first filing with the USCIS for the K1 Visa in America that is my greatest concern when it comes to misunderstandings. I don't want them to think that I am filing the wrong type of visa and since our wedding was a non-legal one then a Spousal Visa is an impossibility. I don't even know about "Indonesian Commitment Ceremonies" until I discussed getting engaged to her. I thought at first our engagement would be old fashion American style i.e. private romantic dinner, getting on one knee and asking her to marry me in America and so on. But Indonesia takes engagements very serious and formality seems a must thus her parent thought that it would be better for us having a social Indonesian-Chinese Wedding instead of an American style engagement since they would not be able to attend our legal wedding-marriage in Hawaii. Has anyone from Indonesia or America been in a similar situation when it comes to non-legal social Indonesian commitment ceremonies?

[Ihavequestions 419]

Perhaps this thread would be better served in the regional forum as this is country-specific.

(OP, the marriage you're talking about is common in Egypt and other parts of the ME/NA region - completely religiously acceptable, the government doesn't recognize them.)

[C-ma'am 684]

Thank you for your replies. To answer your question unlike the USA it is somewhat complex to get married in Indonesia. I wanted us to wait for a legal marriage in Hawaii where I lived. We had the Indonesian-Chinese Commitment Wedding because it would be impossible for her family to get visas to come to the USA to attend our legal marriage. This was the next best thing for them and it was also my understanding that I could still be able to bring her here on a K1 Visa since the USCIS would still consider her as "single". My only concern is making certain that the USCIS fully understand that we had a non-legal Indonesian wedding ceremony and not a legal one. To me it was like a "betrothal" marriage like Joseph and Mary had in the Bible so I was in full agreement to the Ceremony because it was better then just having an American style formal engagement in Indonesia. We are both Christians but all of her family and relatives are Chinese Buddhists. We also did not have a legal marriage in Indonesia because our Social Wedding happened on my first visit to her and I already knew that Immigration usually frowns on couples getting married on their first visit to each other, thus the Commitment Ceremony seemed like a good logical compromise because her family and relatives and friends and 117 other guests would get to see her in a "absolutely serious" relationship to a foreign American Man and I could also get legally married to her in the USA. Unfortunately the Indonesian government expects all pre-married couples to have an Official Formal Engagement Announcement thus I am hesitant to hide our Commitment Ceremony in case the Jakarta Consulate decides to call one of her friends or relatives to verify our "serious relationship" for everyone there accepts ss as being married in accordance to Indonesian social customs even though it is unregistered and non-legal. I think that we will most likely not have any problems with the Jakarta Consulate since (I'm guessing) that they would understand these things. It is the first filing with the USCIS for the K1 Visa in America that is my greatest concern when it comes to misunderstandings. I don't want them to think that I am filing the wrong type of visa and since our wedding was a non-legal one then a Spousal Visa is an impossibility. I don't even know about "Indonesian Commitment Ceremonies" until I discussed getting engaged to her. I thought at first our engagement would be old fashion American style i.e. private romantic dinner, getting on one knee and asking her to marry me in America and so on. But Indonesia takes engagements very serious and formality seems a must thus her parent thought that it would be better for us having a social Indonesian-Chinese Wedding instead of an American style engagement since they would not be able to attend our legal wedding-marriage in Hawaii. Has anyone from Indonesia or America been in a similar situation when it comes to non-legal social Indonesian commitment ceremonies?

Let's start over and leave the other comments aside, shall we? The best advise here and the best question came from Penguin_ie

You are right to be concerned, and not just about a delay but a denial with charges of miss-representation.

Definitely do not show photos of the wedding at the interview, and do not show any of the emails where you refer to eachother as husband and wife- stop that immediately. There is also a big issue if the embassy enquired with friends/ family/ neighbours, and gets told you are married.

Is there a reason you didn't get legally married at the same time? Would you be able to do that now-ish, and then petition for a cR-1 spousal visa?

You have two options:

a) Go for the K1 and make sure nothing about the ceremony surfaces as it may, very likely, cause a denial; and you will have to actually get married in her home country and apply for an spousal visa

b) Get married while you are there and apply for the CR1 directly. While I am sure your family wants to be present at your wedding, it's evident (by what you said) that the bigger issue was her family and their customs; so you can always have a ceremony in the US when the spousal visa is granted.

[Xanax 349]

This may be best placed in the regional forum from your fiancée is from, they might have a better understanding of the cultural norms and practices.

Personally, I know you can be considered married even if you don't think you are, how well do you understand the dynamics of the Chinese - Indo culture? Was the ceremony partly in English? Did you sign anything? Was there a church or religious representative present?

Are you 1000% sure you are not techinally married?

If you are not sure, to prevent denials, RFE'S and or potential heartache I would 1 reasearch the heck out of the ceremony you had before filing and even then I would consider the CR-1 visa even if it means you get married again to safe.

It would truly be a shame if you were considered married, denied a K-1 and then had to start again.

You only have to do brief search to find stories of couples who have been in situations similar to yours and often they ARE considered married.

Good luck and congratulations on finding your love.

[Tohoku 6]

Greetings,

I am new to this site and will begin starting a K1 Visa for my Indonesian-Chinese Fiancee. I believe that everything will go smoothly with Immigration, but I do have one concern. I am a US citizen and my Fiancee is a Indonesian citizen who is Chinese. We had a non-legal Social Wedding or what she calls a Chinese Wedding (non0legal) or otherwise known as a Commitment Ceremony according to Indonesian standards. We are both Christians and because of the Chinese Ceremony her family and Church accepts me as her husband even though the Indonesian government still considers her "Single" since our Chinese Wedding was a non-legal one and not registered with the Indonesian government. In our hearts we consider ourselves as husband and wife even though out Wedding/Marriage was not a legal one. My fear is the I am afraid that the USCIS might think that I am filing for the wrong type of Visa. How do I adviad this misunderstand to prevent any delays with my K1 filing? Our commitment to each other is real to the point that most of our emails we refer to each other as husband and wife. I know that I can still bring her to the USA on a K1 Visa. I just want to advoid any misunderstanding which might cause delays with Immigration. Any suggestions?

Michael Vernon Harper

Dear Michael,

I am not sure if you are still on this thread, but to my best knowledge, the US consulate/embassy/USCIS will only consider a marriage is legal/exist only if you have a legal certificate, that is, if you are legally married. I might be wrong here, but I am sure you can not apply for IR-1 visa for your wife since the IR-1 requires marriage certificate.

If I may suggest, you can:

1. Apply for K1 visa, get married in the US

or

2. Your fiancee apply for a tourist visa (B1/B2) visa, go to Hawaii, get married, return to Indonesia, then you can apply for IR-1.

or

3. Get married in Indonesia (be prepared for the long process and red tapes for you to get the permission to get married in Indonesia), then apply for IR-1.

Personally, for getting married, I think Hawaii is your easiest choice, the trick is, how to get your wife to Hawaii so you both can get legally married there.

I wish you both the best of luck!

[MichaelSutisien 1]

My Fiancee who live in Indonesia only has one legal name "Sutisien" which is stated on her Birth Certificate. Because of this she has no legal last name. So my question is now do I list her name on the 129f form since it requires a last name? Also I am about to do her petition on my own but I need to understand the proper "order" to assembling her petition. Is there a exact "pictorial" guild anywhere so that I can see exactly how the petition should be assembled?

[Billious 32]

Ceilla and I did something very similar... I emailed the embassy in Jakarta and asked them if it would be a problem - they assured me that so long as it wasn't registered, no problem.

I've seen this topic come up so many times, and seen so much bad advice. When in doubt, ask the people who will make the decision!

[MichaelSutisien 1]

Thanks Billious.

MVH

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

**** please do not post personal email addresses, telephone numbers etc on threads as these can be viewed by anyone, even non-members and spammers. You can exchange contact details via PM if you wish. ******

[MichaelSutisien 1]

Thanks Penguin. I guess that I am a very trusting fellow, huh? (smile)