British teacher fired for wearing a veil in class

[Jenn! 918]

Children need smiles and reassuring looks from teachers...not some woman in a darth vadar outfit.

Wow, just wow.

i do not agree with the teacher in this..but comments like are just wrong

Again, please don't misunderstand my comment....you tell me that's not what a small child would say?

maybe, i probably would have... since seeing a nun when young, an being non catholic, brought up ideas from old horror movies..so you are right for allot of kids could relate it that way...

Any fear or intimidation caused by a burqa for children could be easily corrected. Why not let them have contact with a woman in a burqa just because they might be frightened when a simple explanation is all it would take?

I still think the comment is wow, just wow.

They can't even understand what she's saying, let alone what she stands for

The comment can still be 'wow just wow' for you, but if someone is going to be in a position of influence over a child, a parent must try to understand a child's pov.

It is NOT the C of E's responsibility to teach Mulima doctrine, as it is not a Muslim school's responsibility to teach C of E doctrine

I have no issue with anything else you've said. I agree that she signed the contract and should be held to it. I also think that she made a big deal out of it just because she could. I don't see any reason she should be allowed to teach after having watched her interview.

I just found the Darth Vader comment extremely rude. Like I said, it is very easy for a parent to correct a child's misunderstandings. So why should the solution be instead to allow children to believe that women who wear burqas have something to do with Darth Vader?

As for the nun/penguin question, I don't associate penguins with evil. If you called a nun, "some woman, in a darth vader outfit", I would think that was an analogy in very poor taste as well.

[Mirorgate 0]

I have no issue with anything else you've said. I agree that she signed the contract and should be held to it. I also think that she made a big deal out of it just because she could. I don't see any reason she should be allowed to teach after having watched her interview.

I just found the Darth Vader comment extremely rude. Like I said, it is very easy for a parent to correct a child's misunderstandings. So why should the solution be instead to allow children to believe that women who wear burqas have something to do with Darth Vader?

As for the nun/penguin question, I don't associate penguins with evil. If you called a nun, "some woman, in a darth vader outfit", I would think that was an analogy in very poor taste as well.

awesome points above.

but the penguin thing still resides as its a comment of derision and mockery. just because penguins aren't evil does not make a comment about nuns being penguins any better. just my take on it. we may/may not agree, but thats ok in the grand scheme of things.

[Fandango 1,440]

Jenn, I am not saying I would tell my child to associate a woman in a burqa with evil....I'm saying from a child's perspective, someone dressed in black with her face completely covered except for her eyes...it would be easy for a child to make the comparison to Darth Vadar.

You make things sound so easy...'oh just explain to the child'...well it's not that simple.

[Jenn! 918]

Jenn, I am not saying I would tell my child to associate a woman in a burqa with evil....I'm saying from a child's perspective, someone dressed in black with her face completely covered except for her eyes...it would be easy for a child to make the comparison to Darth Vadar.

You make things sound so easy...'oh just explain to the child'...well it's not that simple.

And why not? You said that children need smiles and reassuring looks rather than some woman in a darth vader outfit. If my child came home from school and told me that her new teacher was scary and looked like darth vader, I would explain that she was wearing a burqa and why. I would also explain that there was nothing to be scared of. Children, in my experience, are much more accepting than adults and adapt very quickly to unfamiliar situations.

Sure, I can see how a child might make that comparison. But I fail to see how that means she should not be allowed to teach children because of what their initial reaction might be.

[Marc and Olga 0]

Jenn, I am not saying I would tell my child to associate a woman in a burqa with evil....I'm saying from a child's perspective, someone dressed in black with her face completely covered except for her eyes...it would be easy for a child to make the comparison to Darth Vadar.

You make things sound so easy...'oh just explain to the child'...well it's not that simple.

And why not? You said that children need smiles and reassuring looks rather than some woman in a darth vader outfit. If my child came home from school and told me that her new teacher was scary and looked like darth vader, I would explain that she was wearing a burqa and why. I would also explain that there was nothing to be scared of. Children, in my experience, are much more accepting than adults and adapt very quickly to unfamiliar situations.

Sure, I can see how a child might make that comparison. But I fail to see how that means she should not be allowed to teach children because of what their initial reaction might be.

My opinion based on the name is the students are primarily (if not exclusive) Christian, last I checked CoE was a Christian church, that said:

Perhaps someone that is a member of the Church of England would NOT know how to explain what she is wearing. Not everyone in the world is familiar with Islam traditions. Not everyone in the world can explain why Muslim women wear facial coverings, but then this would be a non-issue had she actually NOT worn it in class because it is my understanding that she is not required to wear it in front of children 7 to 11 years of age.

SHE made it an issue by refusing to remove the veil in her classroom, in front of her students.

As mentioned in the first interview, she should have considered a position at a primarily Muslim school or better yet, an all girl school. She didn't, she applied and was hired at a Christian mixed school.

[Fandango 1,440]

Jenn, I am not saying I would tell my child to associate a woman in a burqa with evil....I'm saying from a child's perspective, someone dressed in black with her face completely covered except for her eyes...it would be easy for a child to make the comparison to Darth Vadar.

You make things sound so easy...'oh just explain to the child'...well it's not that simple.

And why not? You said that children need smiles and reassuring looks rather than some woman in a darth vader outfit. If my child came home from school and told me that her new teacher was scary and looked like darth vader, I would explain that she was wearing a burqa and why. I would also explain that there was nothing to be scared of. Children, in my experience, are much more accepting than adults and adapt very quickly to unfamiliar situations.

Sure, I can see how a child might make that comparison. But I fail to see how that means she should not be allowed to teach children because of what their initial reaction might be.

Erm, young kids are afraid of the boogey man, the monster under the bed, the thing in the closet...you cannot 'cure' a kid of a fear. And if the child is in school, they should be able to focus on school things, not be distracted/scared/confused/etc by a teacher they cannot understand when she speaks, nor see. How can a child form a teacher/child trusting relationship if you cannot see a kind face of encouragement?

I went to Catholic elementary school. I remember even being afraid of the nuns who wore habits...and they were staples of my own religion. But I was a child, and jsut saw this mass of mostly black from head to toe, and it scared me. And I even saw their faces. Blame society/tv/whatever....a figure cloaked in black can be intimidating and scary.

I've explained this as best I could...if you cannot see my POV to at least know I wasn't trying to be offensive, just looking at this in simplistic kid terms, then there's not much more I can do...gotta go to work!

[Jenn! 918]

Jenn, I am not saying I would tell my child to associate a woman in a burqa with evil....I'm saying from a child's perspective, someone dressed in black with her face completely covered except for her eyes...it would be easy for a child to make the comparison to Darth Vadar.

You make things sound so easy...'oh just explain to the child'...well it's not that simple.

And why not? You said that children need smiles and reassuring looks rather than some woman in a darth vader outfit. If my child came home from school and told me that her new teacher was scary and looked like darth vader, I would explain that she was wearing a burqa and why. I would also explain that there was nothing to be scared of. Children, in my experience, are much more accepting than adults and adapt very quickly to unfamiliar situations.

Sure, I can see how a child might make that comparison. But I fail to see how that means she should not be allowed to teach children because of what their initial reaction might be.

My opinion based on the name is the students are primarily (if not exclusive) Christian, last I checked CoE was a Christian church, that said:

Perhaps someone that is a member of the Church of England would NOT know how to explain what she is wearing. Not everyone in the world is familiar with Islam traditions. Not everyone in the world can explain why Muslim women wear facial coverings, but then this would be a non-issue had she actually NOT worn it in class because it is my understanding that she is not required to wear it in front of children 7 to 11 years of age.

SHE made it an issue by refusing to remove the veil in her classroom, in front of her students.

As mentioned in the first interview, she should have considered a position at a primarily Muslim school or better yet, an all girl school. She didn't, she applied and was hired at a Christian mixed school.

Ok, I think we're arguing about different things here. I agree with you! My issue was solely with the darth vader comment.

[Fandango 1,440]

Actually, Jenn...how WOULD you explain it to a child, wehn supposedly the law of Islam says that the face need not be covered in the prescence of only small children?

Am I mistaken here? What is the exact law on this matter?

Edited October 16, 2006 by LisaD

[Jenn! 918]

Erm, young kids are afraid of the boogey man, the monster under the bed, the thing in the closet...you cannot 'cure' a kid of a fear. And if the child is in school, they should be able to focus on school things, not be distracted/scared/confused/etc by a teacher they cannot understand when she speaks, nor see. How can a child form a teacher/child trusting relationship if you cannot see a kind face of encouragement?

I went to Catholic elementary school. I remember even being afraid of the nuns who wore habits...and they were staples of my own religion. But I was a child, and jsut saw this mass of mostly black from head to toe, and it scared me. And I even saw their faces. Blame society/tv/whatever....a figure cloaked in black can be intimidating and scary.

I've explained this as best I could...if you cannot see my POV to at least know I wasn't trying to be offensive, just looking at this in simplistic kid terms, then there's not much more I can do...gotta go to work!

I can agree to disagree. I also don't think a woman wearing a burqa should be compared to various monsters. It's just the way your initial comment came across, and it was offensive, even if you didn't intend it to be. I don't see your comment as being any less offensive then posting a crucifiction smiley either.

[Fandango 1,440]

Erm, young kids are afraid of the boogey man, the monster under the bed, the thing in the closet...you cannot 'cure' a kid of a fear. And if the child is in school, they should be able to focus on school things, not be distracted/scared/confused/etc by a teacher they cannot understand when she speaks, nor see. How can a child form a teacher/child trusting relationship if you cannot see a kind face of encouragement?

I went to Catholic elementary school. I remember even being afraid of the nuns who wore habits...and they were staples of my own religion. But I was a child, and jsut saw this mass of mostly black from head to toe, and it scared me. And I even saw their faces. Blame society/tv/whatever....a figure cloaked in black can be intimidating and scary.

I've explained this as best I could...if you cannot see my POV to at least know I wasn't trying to be offensive, just looking at this in simplistic kid terms, then there's not much more I can do...gotta go to work!

I can agree to disagree. I also don't think a woman wearing a burqa should be compared to various monsters. It's just the way your initial comment came across, and it was offensive, even if you didn't intend it to be. I don't see your comment as being any less offensive then posting a crucifiction smiley either.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree!

Edited October 16, 2006 by LisaD

[Jenn! 918]

What is the exact law on this matter?

You're definitely asking the wrong person there! I would have to do some research if I ever needed to explain it. I do believe though that she is not required to wear it in front of the children she was teaching.

[Fandango 1,440]

What is the exact law on this matter?

You're definitely asking the wrong person there! I would have to do some research if I ever needed to explain it. I do believe though that she is not required to wear it in front of the children she was teaching.

Thanks for the info....really makes me wonder what this burqa issue with this teacher is really about!

[Jenn! 918]

What is the exact law on this matter?

You're definitely asking the wrong person there! I would have to do some research if I ever needed to explain it. I do believe though that she is not required to wear it in front of the children she was teaching.

Thanks for the info....really makes me wonder what this burqa issue with this teacher is really about!

I'd be willing to bet it has absolutely nothing to do with her religion.

Can anyone say 15 minutes?

[Mirorgate 0]

What is the exact law on this matter?

You're definitely asking the wrong person there! I would have to do some research if I ever needed to explain it. I do believe though that she is not required to wear it in front of the children she was teaching.

Thanks for the info....really makes me wonder what this burqa issue with this teacher is really about!

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[Karen_L 1]

If it is my religious belief to wear a Jimmy Carter mask, should I be allowed to teach children whilst wearing it?

!!!!!