British teacher fired for wearing a veil in class

[Private 1]

It has nothing to do with her culture or being muslim. She just can't speak clearly. I could barely understand a word she said. I imagine the kids were having the same problem, so seeing her lips would be a necessity to understand what the hell she's saying.

Everyone always wants to make this a discrimination thing or a racist thing. It isn't. She "lied" in that she did not wear a veil to the job interview, but started wearing one after she was hired. She can barely speak coherent English. Honestly, I don't know why she was teaching in the first place. Part of learning is understanding what the teacher is saying. If the kids can't understand her, their education is suffering. I don't care that she's muslim. I wouldn't want ANYone who couldn't speak clear English (at a reasonable speed....not the machine-gun way she was speaking) teaching my children.

Not to start a fight because I personal do not care, but I am taking a communications course and now I think I have a great topic for the paper. The lady if you listen to hear she spoke well, her english may have some slang but it was okay and she spoke softly. The guy spoke very loud and over talked her and in a way it seemed very hostile. I think that in our minds we have to see the lips in order for us to understnad, but if you listen you understand her. She was avoiding the topic. When I spoke about the viel, I understnad your point they do not have to have her there and that is the bottom line you either chose to deal with something or you do not. The thing I think that is crazy is that they did not chose to deal with her. If she had of answered the phone you would hae understood her. I think this is an amazing topic for school and I wonder if anybody has any inputs. I am thinking that when we talk to someone over the phone then he only use the ears and if we are looking at someone then we kind of phase some of what they say and our hearing goes on and off. I am not sure. But the issue behind the veil is that it is different, nobody likes different. They could have given her another job or put restriction in the contract but when you look the cultures they are clashing hard and this is one of the reasons. I know that I hear from a lot of women that it is hard to get a job wearing hijab. Which is sad, but when you think about it from a money point you have to please the customer if the customer were wemon that wore hijib and veils then this would be okay but if the custome does not and you fear it will decrease business then you do not hire. When you are trying to merger two worlds problems like this occur. I know a lot of women that wear the veil and they teach at the mosque and we do not have a problem. I personaly do not like it, but I thought about it a few times. Becuase a lot of the times it seems that no matter what you do a brother is in your face. Also the environment that I was in, it was okay and normal for a woman to wear the veil when she was married and this was maybe something that I was thiking of. It made my fiance smile but he said that he does not care what I do becuase when you do something for god it is purely for him. However, I think that if the school would have handled it different instead of the normal. I remember September 11th and I saw a movie the one with Denzel Washington in it. I do not remember the name but this guy was not muslim but something else and the bank was being robbed. The bank robbers made him go outside and when people saw him the first thing they said was "Sh!t it is an Arab!!!. They where scared of him and he was the victim. It was funny because this shows you that a few televsion can really change your mind about people. It is funny becuase I am African-American and when people see me it is like so what kind of muslim are you because remember the Black Muslim Movement with Malcolm X. So when people see me it is like I am some kind of preacher so what about this and what about that and I hate this because it is like I only want to buy some bread and go home. I am in the military so when they see me on base it is like wow and people stare so hard it is crazy. The first thing that I encounter is the feeling that people do not like you. When I am in uniform I can not wear the hijib and I go and buy food all the time. I went to this place off duty and they guy was like WHAT YOU, YOU ARE MUSLIM! You know I hard forgotten about the divide and the fact ath i had a scarf on, and I smile and said what you do not want to seel me any greens now. (I am from the south, he is to and we live up north. So we always talk about the south and joke and I have to catch myslef because my accent starts to surface. But he was like blah, blah, blah with question and I was so caught of guard I did not know what to do. I wanted to tlak about food, I had just broke the fast and he is going on about what he thinks he knows. I do not like given classes everyday but i swear this is what I do. WHY because I dress a little different. And I have style so peoepl say I would wear that, my sister askes me to get her clothes. But the problem is what do you mean you would wear that? What does this mean? i can rock a hoodie. But i guess the point I am trying to make is that people, I donot know what to call it. But people do this instead getting to really understnad they quickly find something to say bad. It is like a fight and then you have to cool the conflict. I am curious, I have some people I go to class with or something and they are like I am Christian this and that, which in my opinion they are trying to drag me in to conflict which i do not pay attention to. But they continue, as the class continues you hear remarks like me and my boyfriend this and sex that. Which is crazy since when you can do this and you are "Christian" and then if I say anything, they are like Muslims can not do this and it is ramadan you have to be nice. (#######) I do not understnad and I ask them is this Sauid, are you the muslim police!!!! They only know minimal and they act like you are not human, like all muslim do this and that. I am not perfect but they watch me hard. Can you imagine wow crazy this is. And then what gets me is the "Muslim Police" is slepping with a Muslim from Egypt!!!!! huh This is my thoughts and I am just blabbing so if you can give me your thoughts and some educated suggestions.

[Fandango 1,439]

It has nothing to do with her culture or being muslim. She just can't speak clearly. I could barely understand a word she said. I imagine the kids were having the same problem, so seeing her lips would be a necessity to understand what the hell she's saying.

Everyone always wants to make this a discrimination thing or a racist thing. It isn't. She "lied" in that she did not wear a veil to the job interview, but started wearing one after she was hired. She can barely speak coherent English. Honestly, I don't know why she was teaching in the first place. Part of learning is understanding what the teacher is saying. If the kids can't understand her, their education is suffering. I don't care that she's muslim. I wouldn't want ANYone who couldn't speak clear English (at a reasonable speed....not the machine-gun way she was speaking) teaching my children.

Not to start a fight because I personal do not care, but I am taking a communications course and now I think I have a great topic for the paper. The lady if you listen to hear she spoke well, her english may have some slang but it was okay and she spoke softly. The guy spoke very loud and over talked her and in a way it seemed very hostile. I think that in our minds we have to see the lips in order for us to understnad, but if you listen you understand her. She was avoiding the topic. When I spoke about the viel, I understnad your point they do not have to have her there and that is the bottom line you either chose to deal with something or you do not. The thing I think that is crazy is that they did not chose to deal with her. If she had of answered the phone you would hae understood her. I think this is an amazing topic for school and I wonder if anybody has any inputs. I am thinking that when we talk to someone over the phone then he only use the ears and if we are looking at someone then we kind of phase some of what they say and our hearing goes on and off. I am not sure. But the issue behind the veil is that it is different, nobody likes different. They could have given her another job or put restriction in the contract but when you look the cultures they are clashing hard and this is one of the reasons. I know that I hear from a lot of women that it is hard to get a job wearing hijab. Which is sad, but when you think about it from a money point you have to please the customer if the customer were wemon that wore hijib and veils then this would be okay but if the custome does not and you fear it will decrease business then you do not hire. When you are trying to merger two worlds problems like this occur. I know a lot of women that wear the veil and they teach at the mosque and we do not have a problem. I personaly do not like it, but I thought about it a few times. Becuase a lot of the times it seems that no matter what you do a brother is in your face. Also the environment that I was in, it was okay and normal for a woman to wear the veil when she was married and this was maybe something that I was thiking of. It made my fiance smile but he said that he does not care what I do becuase when you do something for god it is purely for him. However, I think that if the school would have handled it different instead of the normal. I remember September 11th and I saw a movie the one with Denzel Washington in it. I do not remember the name but this guy was not muslim but something else and the bank was being robbed. The bank robbers made him go outside and when people saw him the first thing they said was "Sh!t it is an Arab!!!. They where scared of him and he was the victim. It was funny because this shows you that a few televsion can really change your mind about people. It is funny becuase I am African-American and when people see me it is like so what kind of muslim are you because remember the Black Muslim Movement with Malcolm X. So when people see me it is like I am some kind of preacher so what about this and what about that and I hate this because it is like I only want to buy some bread and go home. I am in the military so when they see me on base it is like wow and people stare so hard it is crazy. The first thing that I encounter is the feeling that people do not like you. When I am in uniform I can not wear the hijib and I go and buy food all the time. I went to this place off duty and they guy was like WHAT YOU, YOU ARE MUSLIM! You know I hard forgotten about the divide and the fact ath i had a scarf on, and I smile and said what you do not want to seel me any greens now. (I am from the south, he is to and we live up north. So we always talk about the south and joke and I have to catch myslef because my accent starts to surface. But he was like blah, blah, blah with question and I was so caught of guard I did not know what to do. I wanted to tlak about food, I had just broke the fast and he is going on about what he thinks he knows. I do not like given classes everyday but i swear this is what I do. WHY because I dress a little different. And I have style so peoepl say I would wear that, my sister askes me to get her clothes. But the problem is what do you mean you would wear that? What does this mean? i can rock a hoodie. But i guess the point I am trying to make is that people, I donot know what to call it. But people do this instead getting to really understnad they quickly find something to say bad. It is like a fight and then you have to cool the conflict. I am curious, I have some people I go to class with or something and they are like I am Christian this and that, which in my opinion they are trying to drag me in to conflict which i do not pay attention to. But they continue, as the class continues you hear remarks like me and my boyfriend this and sex that. Which is crazy since when you can do this and you are "Christian" and then if I say anything, they are like Muslims can not do this and it is ramadan you have to be nice. (#######) I do not understnad and I ask them is this Sauid, are you the muslim police!!!! They only know minimal and they act like you are not human, like all muslim do this and that. I am not perfect but they watch me hard. Can you imagine wow crazy this is. And then what gets me is the "Muslim Police" is slepping with a Muslim from Egypt!!!!! huh This is my thoughts and I am just blabbing so if you can give me your thoughts and some educated suggestions.

I didn't read all this, but you really need to stop projecting.

If my religion is being a nudist, does that give me the right to teach in the buff? If my religion is worshipping beer...can I drink in school? If my religion involves me killing a chicken every 20 minutes on a sacrificial altar, can I do it during English class?

No.

Yes, these examples are extreme, but they illustrate a point.

If I was a nun, could I wear my Habit to teach in a non-Christian school? Should a full-fledged Hasidic Jew be ok to teach math wearing rezhvolkes over the his bekishehis? Or how bout a Hare Karisina in his orange flowy robe teaching music class? He could even bring his tamborine

Take the 'everyone hates Muslims' chip off your shoulder and see the situation for what it really is. This woman got her job under false pretenses...dunno if it was done purposely to garner this worldwide attn, but at the end of the day, that is all this boils down to. She needs to stop shoving her religion down everyone's effing throat. If I had kids, I would not want her teaching my kids. I'd be annoyed by ANY of the above mentioned teachers, no matter what the religious affiliation. If I wanted my kids to be affected by religion, I would have put them in a religious school.

I'm going one further...not only was it hard to understand her at times....but I'm not havin my 7 year old kid sh!t his pants every day because all he sees is a pair of eyes. Children need smiles and reassuring looks from teachers...not some woman in a darth vadar outfit.

[Private 1]

She was interviewed AGAIN on the TV this morning. Not only could I NOT understand her still, she also came across to me as extremely arrogant. Her lawyer who is representing her was beside her and she interupted him numerous times.

When the interviewer asked her about a legal point she started yammering away and he had to hold his hand up to her and say "I'm sorry, I have to answer this, it is a legal question."

I'm sorry, she is in the wrong and this whole thing strikes me as a "ME ME ME" thing.

I can understand your point, you made a very good. But you have to remember that maybe she is frustrated. Me I would not be on television or sueing but a little fuss is not bad. I would make a little but I would move on, if she is muslims she should try to fina way to settle this quietly and since she is in to covering she should try to do the whole. Hijib is not just the dress but the attitude and if your attitude sucks then your are not receiving the reward of Hijib/covering. And yes she lied and she protrated her self in a different way than what she was. She iw wrong, but the issue itself has a deeper problem. I would have giving her phone duty or something else, but you have to be careful because this could be another lawsuit. however if the students complain then they have to do something. Please do not take this as I am defending her, it is just I can relate but in a different manner. It is required to wear losss clothing and cover and also maintain a certain demeanor. However everythign else is extra. And she can wear it when she leaves work. When I first started to wear hijib this is what I did. I would wear it to work and then afterwards. And I would wear it in my daily life. But anyway, I am sorry to go on and on, but this is so interesting.

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

Children need smiles and reassuring looks from teachers...not some woman in a darth vadar outfit.

oh dayum

Edited October 16, 2006 by charlesandnessa

[Veiled Princess 1]

And yes she lied

I haven't seen this second interview... did she actually lie or could it have been the case that perhaps she didn't actually decide to veil until after she got this job?

This is not a decision most women make overnight and they don't put their lives on hold while they are deciding.

[Private 1]

It has nothing to do with her culture or being muslim. She just can't speak clearly. I could barely understand a word she said. I imagine the kids were having the same problem, so seeing her lips would be a necessity to understand what the hell she's saying.

Everyone always wants to make this a discrimination thing or a racist thing. It isn't. She "lied" in that she did not wear a veil to the job interview, but started wearing one after she was hired. She can barely speak coherent English. Honestly, I don't know why she was teaching in the first place. Part of learning is understanding what the teacher is saying. If the kids can't understand her, their education is suffering. I don't care that she's muslim. I wouldn't want ANYone who couldn't speak clear English (at a reasonable speed....not the machine-gun way she was speaking) teaching my children.

Not to start a fight because I personal do not care, but I am taking a communications course and now I think I have a great topic for the paper. The lady if you listen to hear she spoke well, her english may have some slang but it was okay and she spoke softly. The guy spoke very loud and over talked her and in a way it seemed very hostile. I think that in our minds we have to see the lips in order for us to understnad, but if you listen you understand her. She was avoiding the topic. When I spoke about the viel, I understnad your point they do not have to have her there and that is the bottom line you either chose to deal with something or you do not. The thing I think that is crazy is that they did not chose to deal with her. If she had of answered the phone you would hae understood her. I think this is an amazing topic for school and I wonder if anybody has any inputs. I am thinking that when we talk to someone over the phone then he only use the ears and if we are looking at someone then we kind of phase some of what they say and our hearing goes on and off. I am not sure. But the issue behind the veil is that it is different, nobody likes different. They could have given her another job or put restriction in the contract but when you look the cultures they are clashing hard and this is one of the reasons. I know that I hear from a lot of women that it is hard to get a job wearing hijab. Which is sad, but when you think about it from a money point you have to please the customer if the customer were wemon that wore hijib and veils then this would be okay but if the custome does not and you fear it will decrease business then you do not hire. When you are trying to merger two worlds problems like this occur. I know a lot of women that wear the veil and they teach at the mosque and we do not have a problem. I personaly do not like it, but I thought about it a few times. Becuase a lot of the times it seems that no matter what you do a brother is in your face. Also the environment that I was in, it was okay and normal for a woman to wear the veil when she was married and this was maybe something that I was thiking of. It made my fiance smile but he said that he does not care what I do becuase when you do something for god it is purely for him. However, I think that if the school would have handled it different instead of the normal. I remember September 11th and I saw a movie the one with Denzel Washington in it. I do not remember the name but this guy was not muslim but something else and the bank was being robbed. The bank robbers made him go outside and when people saw him the first thing they said was "Sh!t it is an Arab!!!. They where scared of him and he was the victim. It was funny because this shows you that a few televsion can really change your mind about people. It is funny becuase I am African-American and when people see me it is like so what kind of muslim are you because remember the Black Muslim Movement with Malcolm X. So when people see me it is like I am some kind of preacher so what about this and what about that and I hate this because it is like I only want to buy some bread and go home. I am in the military so when they see me on base it is like wow and people stare so hard it is crazy. The first thing that I encounter is the feeling that people do not like you. When I am in uniform I can not wear the hijib and I go and buy food all the time. I went to this place off duty and they guy was like WHAT YOU, YOU ARE MUSLIM! You know I hard forgotten about the divide and the fact ath i had a scarf on, and I smile and said what you do not want to seel me any greens now. (I am from the south, he is to and we live up north. So we always talk about the south and joke and I have to catch myslef because my accent starts to surface. But he was like blah, blah, blah with question and I was so caught of guard I did not know what to do. I wanted to tlak about food, I had just broke the fast and he is going on about what he thinks he knows. I do not like given classes everyday but i swear this is what I do. WHY because I dress a little different. And I have style so peoepl say I would wear that, my sister askes me to get her clothes. But the problem is what do you mean you would wear that? What does this mean? i can rock a hoodie. But i guess the point I am trying to make is that people, I donot know what to call it. But people do this instead getting to really understnad they quickly find something to say bad. It is like a fight and then you have to cool the conflict. I am curious, I have some people I go to class with or something and they are like I am Christian this and that, which in my opinion they are trying to drag me in to conflict which i do not pay attention to. But they continue, as the class continues you hear remarks like me and my boyfriend this and sex that. Which is crazy since when you can do this and you are "Christian" and then if I say anything, they are like Muslims can not do this and it is ramadan you have to be nice. (#######) I do not understnad and I ask them is this Sauid, are you the muslim police!!!! They only know minimal and they act like you are not human, like all muslim do this and that. I am not perfect but they watch me hard. Can you imagine wow crazy this is. And then what gets me is the "Muslim Police" is slepping with a Muslim from Egypt!!!!! huh This is my thoughts and I am just blabbing so if you can give me your thoughts and some educated suggestions.

I didn't read all this, but you really need to stop projecting.

If my religion is being a nudist, does that give me the right to teach in the buff? If my religion is worshipping beer...can I drink in school? If my religion involves me killing a chicken every 20 minutes on a sacrificial altar, can I do it during English class?

No.

Yes, these examples are extreme, but they illustrate a point.

If I was a nun, could I wear my Habit to teach in a non-Christian school? Should a full-fledged Hasidic Jew be ok to teach math wearing rezhvolkes over the his bekishehis? Or how bout a Hare Karisina in his orange flowy robe teaching music class? He could even bring his tamborine

Take the 'everyone hates Muslims' chip off your shoulder and see the situation for what it really is. This woman got her job under false pretenses...dunno if it was done purposely to garner this worldwide attn, but at the end of the day, that is all this boils down to. She needs to stop shoving her religion down everyone's effing throat. If I had kids, I would not want her teaching my kids. I'd be annoyed by ANY of the above mentioned teachers, no matter what the religious affiliation. If I wanted my kids to be affected by religion, I would have put them in a religious school.

I'm going one further...not only was it hard to understand her at times....but I'm not havin my 7 year old kid sh!t his pants every day because all he sees is a pair of eyes. Children need smiles and reassuring looks from teachers...not some woman in a darth vadar outfit.

maybe you should have read it.

[Fandango 1,439]

maybe you should have read it.

I read enough of it

[Jenn! 918]

Children need smiles and reassuring looks from teachers...not some woman in a darth vadar outfit.

Wow, just wow.

[Fandango 1,439]

Children need smiles and reassuring looks from teachers...not some woman in a darth vadar outfit.

Wow, just wow.

Put yourself in a non-Muslim child's perspective & tell me that's a stretch. Don't misunderstand my statement here, please.

Edited October 16, 2006 by LisaD

[Jenn! 918]

Children need smiles and reassuring looks from teachers...not some woman in a darth vadar outfit.

Wow, just wow.

Put yourself in a non-Muslim child's perspective & tell me that's a stretch. Don't misunderstand my statement here, please.

So rather than teaching children that a burqa is religious garb, and nothing to be frightened by, we should sheild them from it and let them think that women who wear them are from the dark side?

[sophyie 0]

If I had kids, I would not want her teaching my kids.

....but I'm not havin my 7 year old kid sh!t his pants every day because all he sees is a pair of eyes. Children need smiles and reassuring looks from teachers...

I agree on that one...

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't care if she wore a headscarf or veiled herself in front of men or even older schoolkids, but I find this kind of veil too extreme for little kids.

However, I've seen other veils which show the full eyes and parts of the forehead and I think that might be fine also, because most of the expression in a face come from the eyes. However, judging from the video- I don't think the eyes are even really visible.

I'm not saying anything about her not veiling when going to the interview for the job... cause I don't get that at all.

Edited October 16, 2006 by sophyie

[Ban Hammer 13,352]

we should sheild them from it and let them think that women who wear them are from the dark side ?

wooohoooo!

who's your daddy?

[Mags 112]

Well, I'm not anti-Muslim in ANY way but I still give a little "start" when I see a woman in full garb. I'm 33, live in London and am used to it. But it still always makes me pause for a split second because, whichever way you look at it, it isn't MY normality.

[Fandango 1,439]

See, the problem really is the fact that according to what I've read here (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), it is not required by Islam to cover the face in the prescence of children. But it is looked upon in traditionalist views as being req'd to do so in front of men. So one has to ask onesself WHY this woman has it backwards. What exactly is the point to get a job under misrepresentation? how does her covering her face become a religious belief when she didn't exhibit such belief when being hired????? How is it such a vital part of 'who she is' if she can choose at whim to not observe when trying to get a job, and then choose TO observe, even though it hinders the very job she was hired to do? Lawsuit anyone????? I totally forgot the fact that it was a Church of England school. Do none of you find that odd? Well, I don't, considering CofE has DEEEEEEEEEEEP pockets But I wouldn't expect the flying nun to teach at a Jewish school, and I don't get why this seemingly traditional Muslima would want to be teaching in a school which flies against everything that she so fervently believes.

It's distracting, and has the capacity to intimidate children. YES, children should be taught acceptance & tolerance...but at the end of the day, they are children, not adults.

If it is my religious belief to wear a Jimmy Carter mask, should I be allowed to teach children whilst wearing it?

[tmma 467]

When she interviewed for the job of teaching,she did not wear it; why not?

Why was the school board not given the oppertunity to see her and hear her as she would be seen and heard by the children she as being paid to teach?

I am not saying she should hide the fact she is Muslim-of course not. However; she misrepresented herself at the interview for this job.

Why would she even want to teach in a C of E school, anyway? How can she support fully the curriculum there? I was taught in a C of E school for most of my school age years in the UK, when they say it is C of E they are NOT messing around... a very religious based curriculum; the teachers were all expected to be involved in the various activities to do with the C of E religious calendar (that were mostly conducted during the school day).

She is being paid to do a job-if her job performance is being detrimentally affected by the veil over her face, then in the best interests of the children, she needs to remove it in classroom-time or find a job in a Muslim or all girls school.

No one is saying that children should be taught to " fear" the garments she is wearing-however-the most important thing for the the parents(whom the school is accountable to for the quality of instruction given), the school, and most importantly the children she is paid to teach-is the quality of instruction given.

Why is it a problem to wear it elsewhere in the school and not in the classroom? That sounds reasonable to me.