Memorial Day 2012

[luckytxn 2,264]

getting too political in ether case gets it moved to the P&R forum... this seems to be skirting being off topic......

I don't see a problem where we in this regional can't discuss this narrow historical political cataclysm. It is something where it did touch the lives in unique ways that any other forum could discuss. At least if it doesn't degenerate too much. I am sure views would differ widely. My wifes Uncle and I discuss this very subject often. It gets ugly at times but we have both seem each other points. He was a commander and even eventually was over the intelligence division for Saigon area. He still feels that the U.S. back stabbed VN but has recently admitted that some blame can be brought to bear on his side. I lean to that the U.S. was using VN as a pawn. I still felt we were trying to be noble but failed.

I was raised that Communism was bad and wanted world dominance. I saw it as a failed philosophy. I have learned now that they are nothing but thugs with guns. Only to enrich themselves at others expense.

[ScottThuy 140]

The sad thing is that there is far too much misperception and misguided passion associated with the topic for it to be discussed here at any depth. Each time it has started, it didn't take long for it to go from a discussion of real history to a bashing session of the VN govt and the country as a whole. There are some here that will post topics in the VN regional just to provoke a confrontation and since it has gotten so ugly in the past there is too much liklihood that it will go bad real fast again if not put in a place where those discussing it know it is a political discussion. The last one moved to P&R went far better than it would have if left here.. We don't want new members to come here for help and get caught up in a fight and in the end suffer as a result.

IMO its very sad that so many in the US and other countries were misled by beureaucratic propaganda and as a result so many thousands died from several countries. I have relatives on both sides that died in that conflict and all of them deserve our respect and thoughts in memory of thier service for thier country.

[luckytxn 2,264]

The sad thing is that there is far too much misperception and misguided passion associated with the topic for it to be discussed here at any depth. Each time it has started, it didn't take long for it to go from a discussion of real history to a bashing session of the VN govt and the country as a whole. There are some here that will post topics in the VN regional just to provoke a confrontation and since it has gotten so ugly in the past there is too much liklihood that it will go bad real fast again if not put in a place where those discussing it know it is a political discussion. The last one moved to P&R went far better than it would have if left here.. We don't want new members to come here for help and get caught up in a fight and in the end suffer as a result.

IMO its very sad that so many in the US and other countries were misled by beureaucratic propaganda and as a result so many thousands died from several countries. I have relatives on both sides that died in that conflict and all of them deserve our respect and thoughts in memory of thier service for thier country.

You are right but this is a Vietnamese topic. I would have liked to hear more sides and what the members here thought good or bad. From other discussions I learned much.

Well god bless us all anyway.

[Dai Gia 4]

One more thing, Hy Vong, as of 2012, about 37 years the war has ended, where is Vietnam's economical status, and for God's sake, just compare within the Southeast Asia region. It'd be a waste of time to compare with the rest of the world.

What's the excuse from the current Vietcong regime? Shouldn't 37 years long enough for them to "fix" their economy? When 1 USD equals roughly 22,000 (twenty two thousand) VN dongs, that tells you something about their economy.........

EVERYONE IS RICH!!!!!!!! THEY ALL ARE BILLIONAIRES!!!!! Oh My GOD!!!!!!!

[Hy Vong 9]

One more thing, Hy Vong, as of 2012, about 37 years the war has ended, where is Vietnam's economical status, and for God's sake, just compare within the Southeast Asia region. It'd be a waste of time to compare with the rest of the world.

What's the excuse from the current Vietcong regime? Shouldn't 37 years long enough for them to "fix" their economy? When 1 USD equals roughly 22,000 (twenty two thousand) VN dongs, that tells you something about their economy.........

EVERYONE IS RICH!!!!!!!! THEY ALL ARE BILLIONAIRES!!!!! Oh My GOD!!!!!!!

Dai Gia.

37 years that ended the war between the US and Vietnam in 1975. But in 1979 the Chinese invaded Vietnam and the war between Vietnam and the Chinese also caused tremendously to the Vietnamese economy. Also, from 1975 to 1995, the US blockaded the entire Vietnamese economy, economic sanction is the most deadly weapon to fight your enemy, the USSR and the eastern European countries collapsed in 1989 becausese of economiscs failure.

About the Vietnamese currency that you mentioned about $1 = 22000 VND . The value of a currency of one country in the exchange rate does not mean that economy is bad. For example, $1 USD = 80 Japanese Yen but $1USD= only 6 Chinese Yuan, now does that mean Japanese economy is more than 10 times failure behind that of the Chinese?

Now that you look at Irag, a country at war for about 10 years and look at how bad it's economy is. Any war that drags on for years would cause tremendously to that country to be able to recover especially recover without help.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Hy Vong

[Hy Vong 9]

One more thing, Hy Vong, as of 2012, about 37 years the war has ended, where is Vietnam's economical status, and for God's sake, just compare within the Southeast Asia region. It'd be a waste of time to compare with the rest of the world.

What's the excuse from the current Vietcong regime? Shouldn't 37 years long enough for them to "fix" their economy? When 1 USD equals roughly 22,000 (twenty two thousand) VN dongs, that tells you something about their economy.........

EVERYONE IS RICH!!!!!!!! THEY ALL ARE BILLIONAIRES!!!!! Oh My GOD!!!!!!!

Dai Gia,

I can share a few things of what I know about the Vietnamese economy that I think very successful since the war ended. But before I share that, I can give you another example of the currency where you think $1USD = 22000 VND is something really bad and that the Vietnamese economy is worth nothing from your perspective of the currency. The exchange rate of the currency of one country doesn't really mean much to the economy, I mean it means something but it doesn't mean $1USD = 22000 VND is something terribly bad about Vietnam. When you look at the currency of one particular economy, you need to look at the purchasing power of that currency in that country. $1 USD in the United States cannot buy a bowl of Vietnamese rice noodle, but in Vietnam, that $1 USD can buy a very decent bowl of Vietnamese rice noodle. This is called Purchasing Power Parity. Stock of Bank of American is around $7 a share, stock of Citibank is around $26 a share. Does that mean stock value of Citibank is better than that of stock of Bank of America ?

Wars are bad, wars that drag on are worse, wars with economic sanctions are worst. For the last 100 years of the recent history, unfortunately for Vietnam, it fell into wars with 3 of the biggest super power in the world, consecutively and continuously. The French in the early 20 century, the Japanese in 1945, the French again in 1954, the American ended in 1975, then the Chinese in 1979. After all the recent wars, Vietnam was economically blockaded and sanction by the American and allies. During and after the war, Vietnam imported food like rice to eat, no water or electricity for the people, inflation was more than 500%, poverty rate was 80% of that of the population. Exports and Imports value were less than $10 billions a year so on and so on.

Since 1995 when the country really opened up by the lifting of the trade embargo against Vietnam by the United States, Vietnamese economic took off as one of the fastest GDP growth rate in the World, only behind that of China. Poverty rate fell from 80% to less than 15% that of today, lower than that of India, much lower than that of the Philippines. Vietnam became the second largest of rice exporter country in the world, producing more than 40 million tons of rice a year, enough to feed the people and export 7 million tons. Vietnam now the top 3 countries in the world make shoes, clothes, sea food, cashew nuts, coffee, black peper, rubber,.. Vietnam now has the largest internet growth rate and internet users in Southeast Asia. Over $100 billions worth of USD from other countries invested in Vietnam such as Intel, Cannon, Samsung, .

I agree that Vietnam is still poor because for many reasons, not just because it is a communist nation. Don't always blame that communism is a failure system in economics. Look at China now, they are communists, but their economic model is a successful model for the last 30 years. The thing that I wish Vietnam will change and I believe that I will in the next 10 years is the political aspect, that is, open up more in political freedom, fight corruptions... but that will also need to take time. A country that wants to be rich, it must build stability to its political and looking back 100 years, Vietnam never was a peace and stable like it is in the last 20 years and look how in 20 years Vietnam has changed into.

Edited May 30, 2012 by Hy Vong

[luckytxn 2,264]

We should all move to the paradise of Vietnam

[ScottThuy 140]

Well that just shoved it right into P&R... moving from VN regional to P&R...

[luckytxn 2,264]

Well that just shoved it right into P&R... moving from VN regional to P&R...

Oh well. I guess I can't even enjoy my one spot on this site I always help out in the most.

[ScottThuy 140]

Oh well. I guess I can't even enjoy my one spot on this site I always help out in the most.

The discussion still exists, its just in the appropriate place for a political discussion now.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The discussion still exists, its just in the appropriate place for a political discussion now.

You don't want us crazies commenting in here. Move it back.

[ScottThuy 140]

Dai Gia,

I can share a few things of what I know about the Vietnamese economy that I think very successful since the war ended. But before I share that, I can give you another example of the currency where you think $1USD = 22000 VND is something really bad and that the Vietnamese economy is worth nothing from your perspective of the currency. The exchange rate of the currency of one country doesn't really mean much to the economy, I mean it means something but it doesn't mean $1USD = 22000 VND is something terribly bad about Vietnam. When you look at the currency of one particular economy, you need to look at the purchasing power of that currency in that country. $1 USD in the United States cannot buy a bowl of Vietnamese rice noodle, but in Vietnam, that $1 USD can buy a very decent bowl of Vietnamese rice noodle. This is called Purchasing Power Parity. Stock of Bank of American is around $7 a share, stock of Citibank is around $26 a share. Does that mean stock value of Citibank is better than that of stock of Bank of America ?

Wars are bad, wars that drag on are worse, wars with economic sanctions are worst. For the last 100 years of the recent history, unfortunately for Vietnam, it fell into wars with 3 of the biggest super power in the world, consecutively and continuously. The French in the early 20 century, the Japanese in 1945, the French again in 1954, the American ended in 1975, then the Chinese in 1979. After all the recent wars, Vietnam was economically blockaded and sanction by the American and allies. During and after the war, Vietnam imported food like rice to eat, no water or electricity for the people, inflation was more than 500%, poverty rate was 80% of that of the population. Exports and Imports value were less than $10 billions a year so on and so on.

Since 1995 when the country really opened up by the lifting of the trade embargo against Vietnam by the United States, Vietnamese economic took off as one of the fastest GDP growth rate in the World, only behind that of China. Poverty rate fell from 80% to less than 15% that of today, lower than that of India, much lower than that of the Philippines. Vietnam became the second largest of rice exporter country in the world, producing more than 40 million tons of rice a year, enough to feed the people and export 7 million tons. Vietnam now the top 3 countries in the world make shoes, clothes, sea food, cashew nuts, coffee, black peper, rubber,.. Vietnam now has the largest internet growth rate and internet users in Southeast Asia. Over $100 billions worth of USD from other countries invested in Vietnam such as Intel, Cannon, Samsung, .

I agree that Vietnam is still poor because for many reasons, not just because it is a communist nation. Don't always blame that communism is a failure system in economics. Look at China now, they are communists, but their economic model is a successful model for the last 30 years. The thing that I wish Vietnam will change and I believe that I will in the next 10 years is the political aspect, that is, open up more in political freedom, fight corruptions... but that will also need to take time. A country that wants to be rich, it must build stability to its political and looking back 100 years, Vietnam never was a peace and stable like it is in the last 20 years and look how in 20 years Vietnam has changed into.

China was a key player in the division of VN in 54.. It was't VN it was the French and the Chinese playing politics with the VN country... And when The VN people disagreed with te ####### that was being crammed down thier throat and insisted on the country remaining one, they became the bad guys in theeyes of the world.... VN would be less of a threat to China if it was hacked into pieces... Imagine if Canada and another country did this to the US... Yes there would be some in the south who would want to seceede, but Would those in the northern states be bad guys for wanting to keep the united states united? It really sucks that there was so much propaganda and misinformation taught to so many...

[luckytxn 2,264]

Want to thank everyone that ever helped me on VJ. I tried to help many as I can during my stay. God bless everyone and take care.

[james&olya 1,121]

During World War II, hundred of thousands of the Japanese American were imprisoned just because they were Japanese. Many of those Japanese American were born in America, never considered Japan as their country, but still they were imprisoned because America was at war with Japan.

It is easy to criticize in hindsight! When you face a truly existential threat the rules and niceties tend to go out the window. I don't agree with the internment of the Japanese but I also do not know for a certainty that it might have prevented something happening that could have changed the outcome of the war. Unlikely? Probably. Impossible? No.

America is not and never will be perfect. But it is far closer to the ideal than most of the alternatives!!

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

***** One post removed for personal attack/ waiting and one post quoting the offending post returned below. ****

Dai Gia. This is a discussion of politics and not a discussion of personal or personal attacks.

Back to your question of "ask every Vietnamese ......."

To me, there are over 200 countries and territories in the world and every one of these countries/territories regardless of any political system that they have, they still want to move to America. Look at Mexico, Mexico is a country of freedom, look at India, India is the biggest democratic country in the world and there are more Indian in the US than Vietnamese. Mexican are risking their lives swimming across the Rio Grande River under heavily police guarded border or risking their lives walking for hundred of miles across the Arizona desert. Now are these people don't have the freedom back in their countries that's why they are seeking for freedom in America and just only the Vietnamese seeking for freedom in America that's why Vietnamese want to migrate to America?

America like i said, it is the greatest country, no doubt! The best thing about America is its Constitution, I also said the Constitution was wrong at some point in the past especially during the slavery period but it caused America a Civil War to make the changes. What so beautiful about America is the law and how these laws applied to the society. Freedom and democracy or multi political parties don't neccessary make a country rich and better. Many countries in Africa, South America are non communists but they are really poor. But look at Singapore or Taiwan, these two used a single party to run their countries for more than 30 years but they are much better than those do India, Mexico, or Phillipnes.

Wars are bad, both side loss lives and suffer and not just one side. Soldiers that died on both sides should be given the respects as well.