Zainah Anwar: Arab Spring opens window of opportunity for women in Mideast

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Yeah if he doesn't want to claim her but wants to spend time with her that's sh!tty. She may not realize what kind of man he is now because she's young but she will. I never said a bad word about my ex in front of my kids but they found out on their own what kind of man he is. They found out how stingy, cheap, dishonest and hypocritical he is just by growing up and seeing his behavior. I hope when your daughter does realize what kind of man her dad is, it doesn't hurt her too much.

exactly...and the next choice I made was worse than him.. Sounds like I need to invest in a boyfriend with batteries for the next 11 years until I can get her into college.

[NY_BX 397]

Out of wedlock children are shameful and shame/honor is huge. We as Americans can't understand this. We can't put our ideas on ppl who have this honor/shame thing so deeply imbedded in themselves. There's really no point in even trying. I told you about my old friend and her daughter, Kat. She completely stopped trying to have her daughter's father in her life. Didn't bother with his culture either. Today she's a gorgeous, intelligent 18 yr old girl who is about to graduate from high school. Her father missed out on her life. His loss. This girl is well rounded and happy without any involvement from her sperm donor of a father. I wouldn't bother with your daughter's father. If you want to expose her to his culture that's fine but I wouldn't worry about any of the other stuff. Being half Moroccan (or any other kind of MENA) isn't a form of prestige IMO. It's a nationality/ethnicity. Personally, I don't look at my kids as being half Arab - they're my kids. I don't get a sense of pride because my kids are half Arab. My pride comes from being their mother because of the wonderful, intelligent kids they are not what kind of blood is flowing through their veins.

I understand we Americans- or people with common sense and compassion from everywhere in the world- can't understand this. Let me attempt to understand this: is it more shameful to have a child out of wedlock than to abandon/ reject a child? And these "ideas" are imbedded due to religious beliefs? If they are, what would god say? That's what we do not understand. I certainly don't. I'd feel shame to be an irresponsible animal to abandon a child and I'd be honored to raise the fruit of my loins as a gift from the divine. So, congratulations to your friend and Beauty for Ashes; more blessings will come your way.

By the way, forcing people to marry due to pregnancy isn't the answer either- which is what most christians do.

I do belief karma is a fair exchange; it's the divine in action. There are many cases of child abandonment like these ones. Those children- as adults- upon becoming famous millionaires, for example, have those "sperm donors" come knocking on their doors.

[NY_BX 397]

He hasn't completely rejected her in that he sends her things and calls her..its a belief system that I thought I really understood but now I know I never did.. Kind of like watching a movie and not seeing any of the hidden things or clues and you think you watched it.. ( like 6th sense) then watching it again and realising you really did not see it. I know that makes no sense. I think if he wasnt still in contact with her, the rejection of not registering her would make sense..but then again I had a pollyanna view of the entire situation until recently so you can just blame me for being a dumb #### LOL

I do not know you and I certainly do not know him, but you should be incredibly proud of yourself for being smart, compassionate and forgiving.

Edited May 24, 2012 by NY_BX

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I do not know you and I certainly do not know him, but you should be incredibly proud of yourself for being smart, compassionate and forgiving.

I have been pretty nice over the last 7 years but lately I think I am entering menopause perhaps and I am becoming less so..I am less doormat and more snarky

Yes, I said it. I am getting very snarky in my 40's

I had this pollyanna vision of her visiting morocco and eventually reconciling with her grandmother and aunts there... I actually have been in contact with my exes niece because she lived with me for a few months.I had a very polly anna view of everything and my compassion was based on my pollyanna view of making everything as good as it could be no matter what. It did not occur to me that being a little bitter would protect me from disappointment. I am a door mat and sometimes door mats, get it hard...

Edited May 24, 2012 by Beauty for Ashes

[NY_BX 397]

On the half ethnicity topic, Mithra, you're right in every sense!

Although it is important for our children to grow up knowing their ancestry, it is more important to teach them diversity; but not only the differences, also the similarities. What unifies us and makes us whole, is that we are all human, period.

I can only imagine having a daughter that dances belly-dancing and salsa! Not to mention speak Arabic, Spanish and English.

I have been pretty nice over the last 7 years but lately I think I am entering menopause perhaps and I am becoming less so..I am less doormat and more snarky

Yes, I said it. I am getting very snarky in my 40's

LOL! Don't we all.

[Mithra 1,185]

Yes, it's more shameful to have a child out of wedlock than to abandon a child. They don't care about the child as a human being. They care about how they're going to save face. Saving face means denying the child even exists, in most cases. I'm not saying every Arab that was ever born feels this way but I'd say about 90+% feel this way. Arabs aren't concerned with their illegitimate kids becoming millionaires one day. And forget about karma. That doesn't work either.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I understand we Americans- or people with common sense and compassion from everywhere in the world- can't understand this. Let me attempt to understand this: is it more shameful to have a child out of wedlock than to abandon/ reject a child? And these "ideas" are imbedded due to religious beliefs? If they are, what would god say? That's what we do not understand. I certainly don't. I'd feel shame to be an irresponsible animal to abandon a child and I'd be honored to raise the fruit of my loins as a gift from the divine. So, congratulations to your friend and Beauty for Ashes; more blessings will come your way.

By the way, forcing people to marry due to pregnancy isn't the answer either- which is what most christians do.

I do belief karma is a fair exchange; it's the divine in action. There are many cases of child abandonment like these ones. Those children- as adults- upon becoming famous millionaires, for example, have those "sperm donors" come knocking on their doors.

I do believe that when you are kind when people are awful, their evil loses its power. Sometimes as one of my best friends says, you just go on adventures. When her car broke down, she took her kids on long walks to get to the store, etc.. and called them adventures. Some of the worst things in life can be endured by looking at the good things that came out of the bad...or what you learned along the way.. But mithra is spot on in her assesment and means very well by the reality happy meal shes serving.. shes serving reality to me on a tray and sometimes we need to be realistic and not a dumb ####

Yes, it's more shameful to have a child out of wedlock than to abandon a child. They don't care about the child as a human being. They care about how they're going to save face. Saving face means denying the child even exists, in most cases. I'm not saying every Arab that was ever born feels this way but I'd say about 90+% feel this way. Arabs aren't concerned with their illegitimate kids becoming millionaires one day. And forget about karma. That doesn't work either.

love it hahhahahahaahahahahahh

And its more important to save face in front of a community than to follow your heart,,,Boy do I know this one BIG TIME

Makes you think that falling in love and all the romantic nonsense aka love children are purely western concoctions LOL

Yes, it's more shameful to have a child out of wedlock than to abandon a child. They don't care about the child as a human being. They care about how they're going to save face. Saving face means denying the child even exists, in most cases. I'm not saying every Arab that was ever born feels this way but I'd say about 90+% feel this way. Arabs aren't concerned with their illegitimate kids becoming millionaires one day. And forget about karma. That doesn't work either.

some berbers are doing their own thing in arab societies by the way, rejecting the arab dump your illegitimate mentality..Not all people in mena are arabs or ascribe to all the things arabs think...many berber women keep their kids but thats a story for another day

[Mithra 1,185]

Falling in love before marriage is, sort of, a Western concept. Arabs, generally, don't marry for love. They find someone of good character, morals, values, etc...someone they can fall in love with eventually. They are far more practical than we are in that way.

[NY_BX 397]

Yes, it's more shameful to have a child out of wedlock than to abandon a child. They don't care about the child as a human being. They care about how they're going to save face. Saving face means denying the child even exists, in most cases. I'm not saying every Arab that was ever born feels this way but I'd say about 90+% feel this way. Arabs aren't concerned with their illegitimate kids becoming millionaires one day. And forget about karma. That doesn't work either.

I believe you. It is really unfortunate.....

[NY_BX 397]

Falling in love before marriage is, sort of, a Western concept. Arabs, generally, don't marry for love. They find someone of good character, morals, values, etc...someone they can fall in love with eventually. They are far more practical than we are in that way.

I've observed this, you're right. Others confuse the assessment with actual love, in other words, they like someone and they automatically believe it's love.

But, why do you think that is far more practical?

I do believe that when you are kind when people are awful, their evil loses its power. Sometimes as one of my best friends says, you just go on adventures. When her car broke down, she took her kids on long walks to get to the store, etc.. and called them adventures. Some of the worst things in life can be endured by looking at the good things that came out of the bad...or what you learned along the way.. But mithra is spot on in her assesment and means very well by the reality happy meal shes serving.. shes serving reality to me on a tray and sometimes we need to be realistic and not a dumb ####

love it hahhahahahaahahahahahh

And its more important to save face in front of a community than to follow your heart,,,Boy do I know this one BIG TIME

Makes you think that falling in love and all the romantic nonsense aka love children are purely western concoctions LOL

some berbers are doing their own thing in arab societies by the way, rejecting the arab dump your illegitimate mentality..Not all people in mena are arabs or ascribe to all the things arabs think...many berber women keep their kids but thats a story for another day

and

[Mithra 1,185]

Because the excitement of new love fades and sometimes you don't want what is left over after that love fades. If ppl get caught up in love, infatuation, romance they tend to ignore if the person they're in love with is someone of substance. If you marry someone who has qualities you admire those qualities will most likely remain even if you fall in and out of love. That's why I think it's practical. You're not blinded by love when you make your decision on who you want to marry.

I've observed this, you're right. Others confuse the assessment with actual love, in other words, they like someone and they automatically believe it's love.

But, why do you think that is far more practical?

[NY_BX 397]

Because the excitement of new love fades and sometimes you don't want what is left over after that love fades. If ppl get caught up in love, infatuation, romance they tend to ignore if the person they're in love with is someone of substance. If you marry someone who has qualities you admire those qualities will most likely remain even if you fall in and out of love. That's why I think it's practical. You're not blinded by love when you make your decision on who you want to marry.

Great point, thank you.

That said, these assessments can only get you us too far. We are all more than the sum of all our parts; we need to connect our energies and feel that excitement as well. So, the ideal situation is a balance of both: the emotional and the practical.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Falling in love before marriage is, sort of, a Western concept. Arabs, generally, don't marry for love. They find someone of good character, morals, values, etc...someone they can fall in love with eventually. They are far more practical than we are in that way.

thats of course AFTER they marry the harlot with no morals, character or values and secure their papers..

then they look for someone they can really love LOL..

Because the excitement of new love fades and sometimes you don't want what is left over after that love fades. If ppl get caught up in love, infatuation, romance they tend to ignore if the person they're in love with is someone of substance. If you marry someone who has qualities you admire those qualities will most likely remain even if you fall in and out of love. That's why I think it's practical. You're not blinded by love when you make your decision on who you want to marry.

And love alone is not enough to endure tragedies and lifes problems. Unfortunately love seems to be all you are seeking at sometimes of your life. Which is why batteries are looking better and better as far as I am concerned

[Mithra 1,185]

Papers was the "quality" he was after, sadly. He was being practical. He's a total trashbag, but he's practical nonetheless.

thats of course AFTER they marry the harlot with no morals, character or values and secure their papers..

then they look for someone they can really love LOL..

And love alone is not enough to endure tragedies and lifes problems. Unfortunately love seems to be all you are seeking at sometimes of your life. Which is why batteries are looking better and better as far as I am concerned

Edited May 24, 2012 by Mithra

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Papers was the "quality" he was after, sadly.

agreed...and that is the stuff of which mena rubber necking is built on