Clear up I-864 items that are Unclear

[AandJ 3]

NO, everybody does not agree that you should list the income from line 37. If it's a 1040 use line 22.

These instructions to use "total income" from a 1040 and adjusted gross income from a 1040EZ are in the step by step instructions for the I-864 and work every time they are followed.

Thanks! I don't know how I missed your post - that makes much more sense to me!

[furble 3]

If you look at a 1040 form, there is only one line labeled "total income". It is line 22. Line 37 is labeled "adjusted gross income". The instructions are different for 1040 than 1040EZ for a reason.

Yea my concern is there is no line labeled "gross income" or "gross (total) income" which is what the instructions say, however I interpret "gross (total) income" to be "total income" same as you yet this remains an interpretation.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Yea my concern is there is no line labeled "gross income" or "gross (total) income" which is what the instructions say, however I interpret "gross (total) income" to be "total income" same as you yet this remains an interpretation.

Yes, it is THE CORRECT interpretation, meaning it is the one Consular Officers and USCIS Adjudicators use. You may have guessed by now, this ain't my first rodeo.

[furble 3]

I just called again and got a nice person. We read the instructions again together and this person also was certain it should be line 37. @Pushbrk, curious what would happen if you called them and talked to them if it would be the same outcome.

[palhaço 2]

Can someone elaborate on the prior year tax return question? I too have joint returns filed with my ex-wife for 2009 and 2010. Should I still list the income from Line 22 on these returns and send copies of the actual returns with W-2s, 1099s, etc...

Also, are all tax worksheets required to be sent with the returns or just what was sent to the IRS originally (i.e. all Schedules that were sent)?

Thank you!

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

I just called again and got a nice person. We read the instructions again together and this person also was certain it should be line 37. @Pushbrk, curious what would happen if you called them and talked to them if it would be the same outcome.

You can go with what the misinformation line tells you, or you can go with what you have been told here. What pushbrk has been telling you is how it ACTUALLY is, and what has worked for countless filings of the affidavit of support so far. It really is line 22 of the 1040. It is total income before taxes, which is gross income. Adjusted gross is not gross, it has been adjusted and deductions taken from it.

Also, you should separate out the individual earnings from joint taxes. Put what is on their last 3 W-2s(gross income) for #25. Send in the 2011 joint transcript and a copy of their 2011 W-2 to show their individual income.

The misinformation line has been named that for a reason. Everything pushbrk has told you throughout this thread has been correct.

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

Can someone elaborate on the prior year tax return question? I too have joint returns filed with my ex-wife for 2009 and 2010. Should I still list the income from Line 22 on these returns and send copies of the actual returns with W-2s, 1099s, etc...

Also, are all tax worksheets required to be sent with the returns or just what was sent to the IRS originally (i.e. all Schedules that were sent)?

Thank you!

Put your individual income amount, the amount from your own W-2s for #25.

I would use free tax return transcripts from the IRS. That way you do not have to worry if you included the complete return. The IRS tax transcript is all you need. However, if you use a copy of your returns, then it needs to be all the forms, schedules, attachments, W-2s and/or 1099s that you originally sent to the IRS when filing your taxes.

[furble 3]

You can go with what the misinformation line tells you, or you can go with what you have been told here. What pushbrk has been telling you is how it ACTUALLY is, and what has worked for countless filings of the affidavit of support so far. It really is line 22 of the 1040. It is total income before taxes, which is gross income. Adjusted gross is not gross, it has been adjusted and deductions taken from it.

Also, you should separate out the individual earnings from joint taxes. Put what is on their last 3 W-2s(gross income) for #25. Send in the 2011 joint transcript and a copy of their 2011 W-2 to show their individual income.

The misinformation line has been named that for a reason. Everything pushbrk has told you throughout this thread has been correct.

Unfortunatly it's not always as simple as just W-2s. There are all sorts of 1099-INT,R,G,MISCs, K-1s, Schedule Cs, Schedule Ds and so on. Too much adding and subtracting to put on 1 simple line, better for my case I think to attache an explanation with breakdown for who's tax docs are what and what are the totals. Tax transcripts themselves don't break anything down by person so useless in this situation.

Regarding to use Line 22 or Line 37 frankly I'm starting to think it doesn't really matter anyway if both numbers are above the amount they are looking for. The person I just spoke to at the NVC just told me that they don't adjudicate this stuff there anyway. They just glance it over and put in in the computer and if the computer thinks you may need a joint sponsor they send you some sort of checklist to go over before your interview at the embassy to help you decide in advance if you should get a joint sponsor. At the embassy they will either accept your AOS or tell you to come back with a joint sponsor. If you don't get a checklist then NVC thinks you will PROBABLY not need the joint sponsor but no guarantee. I'm guessing that when the adjudicator at the embassy looks at it he is a real person with eyes and a brain and will probably look straight at your tax return and not even your I864 form and then he/she can use whatever line and information they want.

[pushbrk 12,883]

I just called again and got a nice person. We read the instructions again together and this person also was certain it should be line 37. @Pushbrk, curious what would happen if you called them and talked to them if it would be the same outcome.

Read this slowly and carefully. NVC---does---not---make----the---decision---about----your----affidavit of support. The operators you talked to don't actually know the answer to your question. They are giving your their own interpretation. It is NOT the interpretation used by those deciding the public charge issue. Not ONLY is this not my FIRST "rodeo". It is NOT one of my first hundred times to be involved in a successful I-864 submission. Use the number from line 22, unless it was a joint return. If it was a joint return, state only the sponsors individual income in the past income section.

The past income section is NOT the critical section so stating joint income there will not sink you. They WILL sort it out. However, the question on the form is "MY total income", not "THE total income" or "OUR total income". What is in parenthesis is added in case the 1040EZ was used, as there is no "total income" stated on a 1040EZ. Because of the nature of that form, you only ADD to the wages line to arrive at a total. The additions are the "adjustments". On a 1040 there are both pluses AND minuses that can be entered between where "wages" are entered and "total income" calculated.

[furble 3]

I have a new item that needs clearing up on the I-864. I am pretty sure I know the right answer but if you actually read the form it becomes unclear.

Regarding Line 25 again, but this time the checkboxes. I am including the optional tax returns and supporting docs for my second and third most recent tax years, so obviously I am checking this box (the second checkbox for Line 25)

However, do I also check the first checkbox? My intuition says yes of course, but when you actually read it then it is a bit contradictory of the second checkbox which I clearly should be checking.

It reads (I've highlighted the confusing part):

"I have filed a Federal tax return for each of the three most recent tax years. I have attached the required photocopy or transcript of my Federal tax return for only the most recent tax year."

So by checking this box I am stating that I have attached the tax return for only the most recent year (2011). This statement which I am submitting becomes clearly untrue when I attach the two additional prior year tax returns.

The second box if checked alone only indicates that I am stating that I have attached the 2nd & 3rd most recent tax returns and makes no mention of the most recent tax return, so it appears that this checkbox alone doesn't cover it, but then again the first checkbox conflicts with the second.

So do I check both boxes? or only the 2nd box?

[KayDeeCee 4,893]

I have a new item that needs clearing up on the I-864. I am pretty sure I know the right answer but if you actually read the form it becomes unclear.

Regarding Line 25 again, but this time the checkboxes. I am including the optional tax returns and supporting docs for my second and third most recent tax years, so obviously I am checking this box (the second checkbox for Line 25)

However, do I also check the first checkbox? My intuition says yes of course, but when you actually read it then it is a bit contradictory of the second checkbox which I clearly should be checking.

It reads (I've highlighted the confusing part):

"I have filed a Federal tax return for each of the three most recent tax years. I have attached the required photocopy or transcript of my Federal tax return for only the most recent tax year."

So by checking this box I am stating that I have attached the tax return for only the most recent year (2011). This statement which I am submitting becomes clearly untrue when I attach the two additional prior year tax returns.

The second box if checked alone only indicates that I am stating that I have attached the 2nd & 3rd most recent tax returns and makes no mention of the most recent tax return, so it appears that this checkbox alone doesn't cover it, but then again the first checkbox conflicts with the second.

So do I check both boxes? or only the 2nd box?

The first one is checked if you filed taxes for the last 3 years. I imagine they added on the statement about providing the most recent transcript because it is required of everyone. The second box is optional. If you are sending in the other 2 years of tax transcripts, then you check it. If you are not, then you don't. So in your case, you will have both boxes checked.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Put your individual income amount, the amount from your own W-2s for #25.

I would use free tax return transcripts from the IRS. That way you do not have to worry if you included the complete return. The IRS tax transcript is all you need. However, if you use a copy of your returns, then it needs to be all the forms, schedules, attachments, W-2s and/or 1099s that you originally sent to the IRS when filing your taxes.

Tax return transcripts are great for those who file as single but when it's a joint filing, they don't indicate which portion of the income is the sponsor's alone. Best to use complete tax returns in those cases. Complete = everything that would have been mailed to IRS if filing by mail.

[pushbrk 12,883]

The first one is checked if you filed taxes for the last 3 years. I imagine they added on the statement about providing the most recent transcript because it is required of everyone. The second box is optional. If you are sending in the other 2 years of tax transcripts, then you check it. If you are not, then you don't. So in your case, you will have both boxes checked.

This is wrong. When you send all three returns you check only the bottom box. The top box's question contains the word "only". To check it would be inaccurate.

Please allow me to gently remind you that questions about the I-864 are quite technical. If you are not fully confident you understand both the question and the answer and are even more confident you are technically correct in your answer, it's best you wait and read the answers from people who are confident of both. It avoids confusion and misinformation like the examples in your most recent two posts in this thread.

Edited May 25, 2012 by pushbrk

[furble 3]

This is wrong. When you send all three returns you check only the bottom box. The top box's question contains the word "only". To check it would be inaccurate.

Please allow me to gently remind you that questions about the I-864 are quite technical. If you are not fully confident you understand both the question and the answer and are even more confident you are technically correct in your answer, it's best you wait and read the answers from people who are confident of both. It avoids confusion and misinformation like the examples in your most recent two posts in this thread.

Hi Pushbrk,

Thanks for all of your help.

Since I see you are a gold star member and I think a forum mod, are you also an immigration attorney or just really experienced and been down this immigration road many times? Just curious really because you seem wise.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Hi Pushbrk,

Thanks for all of your help.

Since I see you are a gold star member and I think a forum mod, are you also an immigration attorney or just really experienced and been down this immigration road many times? Just curious really because you seem wise.

I'm not a mod and I'm not an attorney but it if I answer a question, you can bet your britches on the answer.

Many of the senior members here know a lot more about family immigration than the vast majority of immigration attorneys do. The money in immigration is for work visas and fighting deportation, not in managing administrative procedures associated with bringing family members of US citizens.

Edited May 25, 2012 by pushbrk