Clear up I-864 items that are Unclear

[furble 3]

Ok, I could appreciate some help clearing up some unclear I-864 (AOS) items as I am a stickler for details, especially when it comes to stuff like this. Please answer any of these questions which you have an answer too but if you don't mind include the question number so to keep it organized both for me and future people that find this thread. Later when I call NVC and ask them some of this stuff I will also post any clear answers I find to help future people.

1) Is it ok to leave lines blank on this form? (especially that whole big optional section on Assets, and the charts of other income 24b which I'm not using) Or should I put "N/A" for absolutely every single blank box like I did on the I-130. On the I-130 the instructions specified to do this and "not leave any line blank and to put n/a". On the I864 the instructions make no mention and seem to be ok with blank lines.

2) Line 2 - Principal Imigran's name. My wife doesn't have a last name. On I-130 we just put "(NONE)" as her last name. This was fine there. However on NOA1 & NOA2 they seem to have decided that her last name is specifically "NO NAME GIVEN". So do I do "(NONE)" again or "NO NAME GIVEN". In my opinion "NO NAME GIVEN" sounds bad as if I am keeping her last name from them or something.

3) Line 23 - My Current Annual Income. I find this simple question very unclear. Specifically which line from my 1040 do I use? Later on at Line 25 they are a little more clear in the instructions saying "For purposes of this affidavit, the line for gross (total) income on IRS Forms 1040 and 1040A will be considered when determining income. For persons filing IRS Form 1040 EZ, the line for adjusted gross income will be considered.". I filed form 1040 (not the EZ one). There is no line that reads "gross (total) income". There is a "total income" on line 22 which comes up to more than 4x the minum poverty line amount they are looking for. Then there is line 37 "adjusted gross income" which if I were filing the EZ form would apparently be the one to use. In my case line 37 comes up to about 3x the minimum poverty line so of course I'd prefer to use the "total income" which I think is what they mean by "gross (total) income".

4) Line 25 - Federal income tax information. This is more an opinion based question and I hope some people will chime in. Should I include my 2010 & 2009 tax return amounts as well? Currently I have just included my 2011 which is either going to be 3 or 4 times the minimum they are looking for (depending on the answer to my #3 above). This return is a joint return filed with me & my imigrant wife. My 2010 return is only 2x the mimium but is convulded as it is a joint return with my ex-wife. My ex-wife didn't have any income on it but the tax transcripts don't breakdown the amounts by person. And finally my 2009 tax return is a home run at 10x 125% of the minimum poverty line however the same problem exists that it is convulded being a joint return with my ex-wife, even though her income portion of it was only $19k.

[Darnell 8,478]

current annual income is a projection for THIS year.

PRIOR year income, well, you already have tax documents for that.

CURRENT is simply a projection, and can be based on what you've earned SO FAR - without tax deductions

so if you earn 6000 in a month, your current annual income would be 12 (months) x 6000 (monthly income) = 72000 usd

Good Luck !

[pushbrk 12,883]

current annual income is a projection for THIS year.

PRIOR year income, well, you already have tax documents for that.

CURRENT is simply a projection, and can be based on what you've earned SO FAR - without tax deductions

so if you earn 6000 in a month, your current annual income would be 12 (months) x 6000 (monthly income) = 72000 usd

Good Luck !

"Current annual income is NOT projected for "this year". It is projected for the next twelve months. That actually matches your explanation. If the sponsor started working for $6000 a month Mayy first and had no prior income this year, they would earn $48,000 in 2012 but their current income would be $72,000, not $48,000.

[furble 3]

So to be clear, line 23 is "current projected" and line 25 is tax return based for most recent completed tax year (2011) and optionally two more tax years before that?

[pushbrk 12,883]

Ok, I could appreciate some help clearing up some unclear I-864 (AOS) items as I am a stickler for details, especially when it comes to stuff like this. Please answer any of these questions which you have an answer too but if you don't mind include the question number so to keep it organized both for me and future people that find this thread. Later when I call NVC and ask them some of this stuff I will also post any clear answers I find to help future people.

1) Is it ok to leave lines blank on this form? (especially that whole big optional section on Assets, and the charts of other income 24b which I'm not using) Or should I put "N/A" for absolutely every single blank box like I did on the I-130. On the I-130 the instructions specified to do this and "not leave any line blank and to put n/a". On the I864 the instructions make no mention and seem to be ok with blank lines.

Yes, leave the asset section blank if you wish.

2) Line 2 - Principal Imigran's name. My wife doesn't have a last name. On I-130 we just put "(NONE)" as her last name. This was fine there. However on NOA1 & NOA2 they seem to have decided that her last name is specifically "NO NAME GIVEN". So do I do "(NONE)" again or "NO NAME GIVEN". In my opinion "NO NAME GIVEN" sounds bad as if I am keeping her last name from them or something.

Enter ---- for names that do not exist. They have dealt with Indonesians before. NONE is an actual name in more than one language.

3) Line 23 - My Current Annual Income. I find this simple question very unclear. Specifically which line from my 1040 do I use? Later on at Line 25 they are a little more clear in the instructions saying "For purposes of this affidavit, the line for gross (total) income on IRS Forms 1040 and 1040A will be considered when determining income. For persons filing IRS Form 1040 EZ, the line for adjusted gross income will be considered.". I filed form 1040 (not the EZ one). There is no line that reads "gross (total) income". There is a "total income" on line 22 which comes up to more than 4x the minum poverty line amount they are looking for. Then there is line 37 "adjusted gross income" which if I were filing the EZ form would apparently be the one to use. In my case line 37 comes up to about 3x the minimum poverty line so of course I'd prefer to use the "total income" which I think is what they mean by "gross (total) income".

Current income and income from tax returns are separate questions. Project your income for the next 12 months, unless self employed. If self employed, line 22 of the 1040 is both the 2011 income and the current income.

4) Line 25 - Federal income tax information. This is more an opinion based question and I hope some people will chime in. Should I include my 2010 & 2009 tax return amounts as well? Currently I have just included my 2011 which is either going to be 3 or 4 times the minimum they are looking for (depending on the answer to my #3 above). This return is a joint return filed with me & my imigrant wife. My 2010 return is only 2x the mimium but is convulded as it is a joint return with my ex-wife. My ex-wife didn't have any income on it but the tax transcripts don't breakdown the amounts by person. And finally my 2009 tax return is a home run at 10x 125% of the minimum poverty line however the same problem exists that it is convulded being a joint return with my ex-wife, even though her income portion of it was only $19k.

Three tax returns is a best practice but for joint returns, transcripts don't work too well. You should state only your personal income in the past tax return section. Transcripts won't separate that for you. Are tax return copies available for 09 and 10?

See answers in bold above.

So to be clear, line 23 is "current projected" and line 25 is tax return based for most recent completed tax year (2011) and optionally two more tax years before that?

You must provide the prior income information. What is optional is whether you also provide the other two tax returns.

[Darnell 8,478]

"Current annual income is NOT projected for "this year". It is projected for the next twelve months. That actually matches your explanation. If the sponsor started working for $6000 a month Mayy first and had no prior income this year, they would earn $48,000 in 2012 but their current income would be $72,000, not $48,000.

Hmmm.. Fiddly bits. I'll keep that in mind when I answer the next one. Thanks !

[furble 3]

I just spoke with NVC on the phone and this seems like important information and wondering if anyone has heard anything like this before:

Regarding listing amounts from tax returns the woman (who was very nice) told me that I should list line 37 from the 1040 which is "adjusted gross income". She said that "technically" line 22 is also a valid answer however she has seen and that sometimes line 22 result in a "checklist" being mailed out to the sponsor, which I assume is an RFE.

Also interesting that she pointed out (which was on the form anyway duh) that even though I should and will list the previous 2 tax years as well, it is only optional whether I include photocopies or transcripts of them. She basically said not to bother unless they ask for the optional items later.

[furble 3]

Well I just called again, this time not such a friendly woman on the phone.

Anyway, she said the same (I like to double check because sometimes you get a different answer), and she was certain that it was supposed to be "adjusted gross income" that would be used which is line 37.

I also went on and asked her about the old 2009 & 2010 joint returns from ex-wife and what to list and she said to NOT Seperate out my income, but to include the old returns etc... and they will figure it out.

I think I'm going to go with what she said and include an attached explanation so they won't have to work to hard figuring things out.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Well I just called again, this time not such a friendly woman on the phone.

Anyway, she said the same (I like to double check because sometimes you get a different answer), and she was certain that it was supposed to be "adjusted gross income" that would be used which is line 37.

I also went on and asked her about the old 2009 & 2010 joint returns from ex-wife and what to list and she said to NOT Seperate out my income, but to include the old returns etc... and they will figure it out.

I think I'm going to go with what she said and include an attached explanation so they won't have to work to hard figuring things out.

You'll get less misinformation from NVC operators than from USCIS operators but use your own head a minute. They cannot "figure it out" (which income is yours and which is your former spouse's) from a tax return transcript. If you are wise, you'll do it the way I told you to.

[furble 3]

Yea it'll be the returns w/ supporting docs. I'll list the total on the form as she requested and attach a proper explanation sheet doing the math for then breaking down the w2s and 1099ints, and various other things into 2 columns for them.

Now also you had said to use 1040 line 22 and the NVC person said line 37. What are your thoughts on that? I still think NVC could be incorrect. Too bad their instructions are unclear. I might try #3 tomorow morning because their night shift seems a bit friendlier.

[pushbrk 12,883]

Yea it'll be the returns w/ supporting docs. I'll list the total on the form as she requested and attach a proper explanation sheet doing the math for then breaking down the w2s and 1099ints, and various other things into 2 columns for them.

Now also you had said to use 1040 line 22 and the NVC person said line 37. What are your thoughts on that? I still think NVC could be incorrect. Too bad their instructions are unclear. I might try #3 tomorow morning because their night shift seems a bit friendlier.

You already know my thoughts on that. Unless you use the 1040EZ, use the number from line 22. It's in the official instructions that work every time they are followed.

[AandJ 3]

Hi everyone,

It seems everyone agrees that you should list the income from line 37, but what happens when you have filled out the Foreign Income Earned form 2555? Then line 37 is blank...

I have a return from 2010 with income in the States with an amount on line 37 and my 2011 with all foriegn income with nothing on line 37. If I list a number from a certain line for one year I should do it the same on the next right?

Thanks,

Amanda

[pushbrk 12,883]

Hi everyone,

It seems everyone agrees that you should list the income from line 37, but what happens when you have filled out the Foreign Income Earned form 2555? Then line 37 is blank...

I have a return from 2010 with income in the States with an amount on line 37 and my 2011 with all foriegn income with nothing on line 37. If I list a number from a certain line for one year I should do it the same on the next right?

Thanks,

Amanda

NO, everybody does not agree that you should list the income from line 37. If it's a 1040 use line 22.

These instructions to use "total income" from a 1040 and adjusted gross income from a 1040EZ are in the step by step instructions for the I-864 and work every time they are followed.

Edited May 22, 2012 by pushbrk

[furble 3]

NO, everybody does not agree that you should list the income from line 37. If it's a 1040 use line 22.

These instructions to use "total income" from a 1040 and adjusted gross income from a 1040EZ are in the step by step instructions for the I-864 and work every time they are followed.

So the problem is the instructions don't read exactly like you just wrote them. They way they read (copied and pasted) are:

"For purposes of this affidavit, the line for gross (total) income on IRS Forms 1040 and 1040A will be considered when determining income. For persons filing IRS Form 1040 EZ, the line for adjusted gross income will be considered."

So you see they've gone and made it as not clear as possible by using both the words "gross" and "(total)". And why is "total" in paranthesis?

Is there a way to start a poll somewhere asking which 1040 line people used? Pushbrk I agree that when I read the instructions I interpret them the same as you, however 2 sepeate people at NVC (1 friendly and 1 not) have told me to do line 37 and both were pretty adamant about it.

[pushbrk 12,883]

So the problem is the instructions don't read exactly like you just wrote them. They way they read (copied and pasted) are:

"For purposes of this affidavit, the line for gross (total) income on IRS Forms 1040 and 1040A will be considered when determining income. For persons filing IRS Form 1040 EZ, the line for adjusted gross income will be considered."

So you see they've gone and made it as not clear as possible by using both the words "gross" and "(total)". And why is "total" in paranthesis?

Is there a way to start a poll somewhere asking which 1040 line people used? Pushbrk I agree that when I read the instructions I interpret them the same as you, however 2 sepeate people at NVC (1 friendly and 1 not) have told me to do line 37 and both were pretty adamant about it.

If you look at a 1040 form, there is only one line labeled "total income". It is line 22. Line 37 is labeled "adjusted gross income". The instructions are different for 1040 than 1040EZ for a reason.