George Zimmerman Case: Charges Should Be Dropped

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what a reason person would think in the same situation. That is the standard. Thanks again for another example of the depraved mind, and why we use reasonable person as the standard.

This isn't the 1960's where the worst thing you beat someone with was a baseball bat or a piece of 2x4. A lot of peeps use guns these days and it's had an effect on how people defend themselves. It's a new day and age and the criminals have set the bar.

[PMartin37 161]

From the 911 transcript:

.................

According to Tracy Martin, the Sanford, Fla., detective recounted this sequence of events: Trayvon Martin walked up to Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Zimmerman denied following the youth and rolled up the car window. Minutes after Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle.

......

Trayvon was talking on his cell phone with his girlfriend when she heard Trayvon ask "Why are you following me?" That happened within a minute of Trayvon's death.

Her cell phone records show that the call began @ 7:12 p.m. After Zimmerman's 911 call, the Dispatcher received 911 calls reporting screams and gunshot(s), one where you can hear both the screams and the gunshot.

At 7:17p.m., as Officer Smith responds to original 911 call, he arrives on the scene and receives another call from dispatch about gunshot(s) being fired. The police report shows that he arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/...

Trayvon was already dead. He was found lying on his stomach with his hands underneath his body. If Trayvon and Zimmerman were fighting and Zimmerman shot Trayvon at close range, how did Zimmerman have enough time to get Trayvon off of him before witnesses and police came out to see what happened? Where was the blood splatter? When does someone shot in the chest fall forward?

As Zimmerman's 911 call shows, Zimmerman had no intention of not following Trayvon.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/29/1078912/-The-Rest-of-Zimmerman-s-911-Call

I noticed that also about him being found face down with his arms under his body. I wonder if that will come into play at some point with Zimmerman's account and body placement after death.

[PMartin37 161]

This isn't the 1960's where the worst thing you beat someone with was a baseball bat or a piece of 2x4. A lot of peeps use guns these days and it's had an effect on how people defend themselves. It's a new day and age and the criminals have set the bar.

I totally agree with the right to defend oneself. If you happen to be walking alone at night, you have every right to carry a gun to protect yourself. However,if you're a responsible gun owner, you don't put yourself in harm's way deliberately and purposefully so that it becomes an excuse to "defend" yourself because of your own poor judgement and willful ignorance.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Because so far, everyone who supports Stand Your Ground has been saying that all that is needed is for the person to have a reasonable belief that their life is in danger. Zimmerman was carrying a gun for protection. Many here have even said that Zimmerman didn't need to wait to be pummeled or have his head bashed into concrete to use lethal force.

Actually, no. The author of the "stand you ground" law is on record calling for Zimmerman to be arrested and tried for the killing of Martin. To quote the author of the law: "He [Zimmerman] has no protection under my law,". Same goes for the governor who signed the bill into law. He said that “This law does not apply to this particular circumstance,”. Don't know but to me it seems that the stand your ground claim by Zimmerman was clearly not what was intended with this law.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[Ban Hammer 13,403]

He was not supposed to be there at the time, she was there to retrieve her personal belongings after their split. What she did was wrong, stupid, no question. But 20 years?!!!

it was his home - not hers.

Edited May 23, 2012 by charles!

[PMartin37 161]

Actually, no. The author of the "stand you ground" law is on record calling for Zimmerman to be arrested and tried for the killing of Martin. To quote the author of the law: "He [Zimmerman] has no protection under my law,". Same goes for the governor who signed the bill into law. He said that “This law does not apply to this particular circumstance,”. Don't know but to me it seems that the stand your ground claim by Zimmerman was clearly not what was intended with this law.

I've read that as well. That's rather compelling. I wonder where in this world they'll find jurors who are not familiar with this case? lol I have to agree in part with some readers here about the media becoming SO involved. The reason being, who are they going to dig up to evaluate this case? Will they have to go with some Pinellas county voters?

[PMartin37 161]

I've read that as well. That's rather compelling. I wonder where in this world they'll find jurors who are not familiar with this case? lol I have to agree in part with some readers here about the media becoming SO involved. The reason being, who are they going to dig up to evaluate this case? Will they have to go with some Pinellas county folks?

[Dan and Judy 614]

He specifically said "my age or younger" and IDing someone as a teenager is not indicative of exact age. I'm sure the defense will say exactly that.

too lazy to back this up but I believe the "my age or younger" was what he said at the hearing and on the 911 called him a teenager

Edited May 23, 2012 by Dan and Judy

[PMartin37 161]

too lazy to back this up but I believe the "my age or younger" was what he said at the hearing and on the 911 called him a teenager

Wow...if he said that at the hearing, he will have a BIG credibility issue. Clearly per the transcripts from 911 he said late teens. Unless Zimmerman fancies himself looking like a late teen, that's a big jump.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Im not sure why the Stand your ground law would be important here. According to Zimmerman he was attacked, the guy didnt walk into Zimmermans house.

after the guy is sitting on top of you beating on you, where are you going to retreat to?

It would just be simple self defense.

Now somebody was sitting on top of somebody else and according to a witness beating him MMA (mixed martial arts) style.

999 times out of 1000 the guy on the bottom would be the one screaming like a little girl if anybody was.

the evidence does point to Zimmerman being on the bottom

I can't imagine myself beating the ####### outta somebody and screaming for help the whole time.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Im not sure why the Stand your ground law would be important here.

The stand your ground law would permit an immunity hearing before the trial. Otherwise, it goes to trial, and Zimmerman's defense team will have to use an affirmative defense. That means Zimmerman's credibility is on the line, more than likely he will have to testify, and any discrepancies in his testimony and previous statements will erode that credibility. Zimmerman has no presumption of innocence in either proceeding, and will have to show by a preponderance of the evidence that his killing of Martin was the action of a reasonable person given the circumstances.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The stand your ground law would permit an immunity hearing before the trial. Otherwise, it goes to trial, and Zimmerman's defense team will have to use an affirmative defense. That means Zimmerman's credibility is on the line, more than likely he will have to testify, and any discrepancies in his testimony and previous statements will erode that credibility. Zimmerman has no presumption of innocence in either proceeding, and will have to show by a preponderance of the evidence that his killing of Martin was the action of a reasonable person given the circumstances.

Why would Zimmerman testify? How many cases does the defense actually put their guy on the stand? It's up to the prosecutors to prove it wasn't self defense. The odds on that are 10 - 1 at best.

[james&olya 1,121]

You are still missing it. There's no burden on the defense whatsoever. The prosecutor has to prove that Zimmerman didn't shoot in self defense. Good luck on that one because unless it's a fixed jury it isn't happening.

It's against the law to physically attack another human being. In the great state of Florida you have the right to defend yourself with a gun if physically attacked by another human being.

No, I think it is you that has not yet figured it out. If prosecutors had to prove it was NOT self-defense than any non-witnessed homicide would never get a conviction with even the barest minimum of legal competence for the defense!

[Dan and Judy 614]

That looks like Martin died on a grassy lawn? I thought he was beating Zimmerman's head into cement?

I put on my "Hardy Boys" jr sleuthing hat

First of all, yes that's a sidewalk in the picture.

2cnd the body was found by the cops in a prone (face down position)

the body in the picture is in a supine (face up position). The Nike pointing up is a dead give away (sorry couldn't stop myself)

First thing the cops would do would be to roll the body over to check for vital signs and give a little cpr.

Human nature being what it is, if there is a slight incline the body will be rolled downhill cause it's easier.

Then the paramedics are going to arrive and take over cpr, I don't know if they would give up on the cpr first

but at some point they are going to roll the body over looking for an exit wound. Downhill again.

When they are done doing all that stuff they would roll the body over one more time just because it

seems more proper to leave the body facing up. Then they would put on the yellow poncho or tarp.

there are probably a few pictures of the body after the first roll but they're not going to show em to us.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I put on my "Hardy Boys" jr sleuthing hat

First of all, yes that's a sidewalk in the picture.

2cnd the body was found by the cops in a prone (face down position)

the body in the picture is in a supine (face up position). The Nike pointing up is a dead give away (sorry couldn't stop myself)

First thing the cops would do would be to roll the body over to check for vital signs and give a little cpr.

Human nature being what it is, if there is a slight incline the body will be rolled downhill cause it's easier.

Then the paramedics are going to arrive and take over cpr, I don't know if they would give up on the cpr first

but at some point they are going to roll the body over looking for an exit wound. Downhill again.

When they are done doing all that stuff they would roll the body over one more time just because it

seems more proper to leave the body facing up. Then they would put on the yellow poncho or tarp.

there are probably a few pictures of the body after the first roll but they're not going to show em to us.

Did they roll the body end over end? It seems to be perpendicular to the sidewalk. But, you may be right, they moved the body before they covered it. Nobody seemed to be in a hurry to load Martin on a gurney and rush him to the hospital.

Edited May 23, 2012 by ☼