George Zimmerman Case: Charges Should Be Dropped

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I always get lame cartoons/pictures instead of answers.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

In fairness, the body is close enough to where the walkway was, however, that walkway is narrow and it seems difficult to be able to deliberately try to throw somebody's head onto that concrete. Zimmerman's jacket and head had grass stains. If Martin did in fact knock Zimmerman to the ground (in spite of weighing a good 40lbs less), Zimmerman's head could have made contact with the sidewalk, but then the impact would have shown more severe injuries. It could have been where Zimmerman simply lost his footing and fell backward, but broke his fall. But in any case, the scuffle seems mild at best when considering the injuries to both parties. Someone could then argue that Zimmerman acted quickly and with lethal force at the point, but then why the long drawn out screams for help? If Zimmerman was yelling for help that long because he feared for his life, why didn't he draw his gun and shoot Martin sooner? Because the two were struggling to grab his gun? I don't think they found any of Martin's DNA on the gun or holster though. There's just too many holes in Zimmerman's account of what happened that night.

I think there can be some discrepancies without the notion of lying. To what degree? I'm not sure, but I'd reference the Stokes Interview system (since this is a visa site) where you can get a few things wrong without being accused of a lie. No one will be 100% accurate, especially after something like this.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I am not so sure he will beat the rap. Invoking self-defense is an 'affirmative' defense I am told, and the burden is then on the defendant to offer proof that was the case! Some stalking IS a crime! What it will boil down to is what they can convince the most racist of twelve jurors actually happened sufficient to convict a non-black of killing a black! He might walk!

You are still missing it. There's no burden on the defense whatsoever. The prosecutor has to prove that Zimmerman didn't shoot in self defense. Good luck on that one because unless it's a fixed jury it isn't happening.

It's against the law to physically attack another human being. In the great state of Florida you have the right to defend yourself with a gun if physically attacked by another human being.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Why_Me

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Here's the audio of the screams for help. Again, if that's Zimmerman screaming, why didn't he shoot Martin right then?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

They have to prove that he didn't shoot Martin in self defense.

Not quite. Zimmerman has already admitted sufficient facts to justify murder two. The burden of proof falls upon his defense team to prove it was a justifiable homicide grounded on self-defense, if it makes to the jury, or that while he was minding his own business, when through no action of his own, he had come to the believe of a reasonable (sane and sober) person that his life was in danger, or was threatened with grievous bodily harm, during the immunity hearing before it goes to trial. Zimmerman really has no presumption of innocence in this case. Martin is dead, Zimmerman had the means to kill him, and Zimmerman admitted he shot him.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Here's the audio of the screams for help. Again, if that's Zimmerman screaming, why didn't he shoot Martin right then?

I can think of three things.

1. His hands were busy trying to stop from being punched. (Though his hands are injury free...so unlikely)

2. With the gun at his back he couldn't get to it until he was able to rotate slightly to free it.

3. In the heat of the moment he forgot he had it.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Here's the audio of the screams for help. Again, if that's Zimmerman screaming, why didn't he shoot Martin right then?

How many fights have you been in? And when you were fighting for you life did you remember everything like it was in slow motion? Do you ever go back and think to yourself; "why didn't I beat his head with that shovel that was right next to the door instead of swinging my fist at him"?

Edited May 22, 2012 by Why_Me

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I think there can be some discrepancies without the notion of lying. To what degree? I'm not sure, but I'd reference the Stokes Interview system (since this is a visa site) where you can get a few things wrong without being accused of a lie. No one will be 100% accurate, especially after something like this.

Okay, so Zimmerman might have exaggerated, but nevertheless, the prosecution is going to show his lack of credibility on several fronts. For example, during his arraignment, he spoke before the court and said he had no idea that Martin was a teenager, yet, in his 911 call, when the dispatcher asked him how old did the suspect look, he said he looked to be in his late teens. Once the jurors have doubts about Zimmerman's credibility, they'll try to piece together what most likely happened, knowing that an unarmed teenager who wasn't breaking any laws and was simply trying to get back home was pursued, shot and killed by an armed man 11 years older than him who supposedly was the neighborhood watchman who didn't bother to even identify himself as such.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Mister Fancypants

[one...two...tree 2,762]

How many fights have you been in? And when you were fighting for you life did you remember everything like it was in slow motion? Do you ever go back and think to yourself; "why didn't I beat his head with that shovel that was right next to the door instead of swinging my fist at him"?

Because so far, everyone who supports Stand Your Ground has been saying that all that is needed is for the person to have a reasonable belief that their life is in danger. Zimmerman was carrying a gun for protection. Many here have even said that Zimmerman didn't need to wait to be pummeled or have his head bashed into concrete to use lethal force.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Mister Fancypants

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Okay, so Zimmerman might have exaggerated, but nevertheless, the prosecution is going to show his lack of credibility on several fronts. For example, during his arraignment, he spoke before the court and said he had no idea that Martin was a teenager, yet, in his 911 call, when the dispatcher asked him how old did the suspect look, and he said he looked to be in his late teens. Once the jurors have doubts about Zimmerman's credibility, they'll try to piece together most likely happened, knowing that an unarmed teenager who was breaking any laws and was simply trying to get back home was pursued, shot and killed by an armed man 11 years older than him who supposedly was the neighborhood watchman who didn't bother to even identify himself as such.

He specifically said "my age or younger" and IDing someone as a teenager is not indicative of exact age. I'm sure the defense will say exactly that.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Because so far, everyone who supports Stand Your Ground has been saying that all that is needed is for the person to have a reasonable belief that their life is in danger. Zimmerman was carrying a gun for protection. Many here have even said that Zimmerman didn't need to wait to be pummeled or have his head bashed into concrete to use lethal force.

Some gun owners see it different. Some believe using lethal force should be your last choice of self defense and then there is the crowd that shoots first and ask questions later.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

... and then there is the crowd that shoots first and ask questions later.

That would be evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life. Great example. Thanks!

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

That would be evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life. Great example. Thanks!

You missed the boat again. Everyone has a different take on what they believe to be imminent danger. Not all minds think alike. I got a DV one time for telling the soon to be ex I wanted my money or else. My cousin got a DV for throwing a small plant against the microwave.

No danger but the courts took it as so. So ya, it goes both ways.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Everyone has a different take on what they believe to be imminent danger. Not all minds think alike.

It doesn't matter what you think, it matters what a reason person would think in the same situation. That is the standard. Thanks again for another example of the depraved mind, and why we use reasonable person as the standard.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

He specifically said "my age or younger" and IDing someone as a teenager is not indicative of exact age. I'm sure the defense will say exactly that.

From the 911 transcript:

Zimmerman:

We’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there’s a real suspicious guy. It’s Retreat View Circle. The best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle.

This guy looks like he’s up to no good or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around looking about. [00:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK, is he White, Black, or Hispanic?

Zimmerman:

He looks black.

911 dispatcher:

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, a dark hoodie like a gray hoodie. He wore jeans or sweat pants and white tennis shoes. He’s here now … he’s just staring. [00:42]

911 dispatcher:

He’s just walking around the area, the houses? OK.

Zimmerman:

Now he’s staring at me. [00:48]

911 dispatcher:

OK, you said that’s 1111 Retreat View or 111?

Zimmerman:

That’s the clubhouse.

911 dispatcher:

He’s near the clubhouse now?

Zimmerman:

Yeah, now he’s coming toward me. He’s got his hands in his waist band.

And he’s a black male.[1:03]

911 dispatcher:

How old would you say he is?

Zimmerman:

He’s got something on his shirt. About like his late teens.

911 dispatcher:

Late teens?

Zimmerman:

Uh, huh.

Something’s wrong with him. Yep, he’s coming to check me out.

He’s got something in his hands. I don’t know what his deal is. [01:20]

911 dispatcher:

Let me know if he does anything, OK?

Zimmerman:

OK.

911 dispatcher:

We’ve got him on the wire. Just let me know if this guy does anything else.

Zimmerman:

OK.

These aszholes. They always get away. (worth noting that Zimmerman said this before Martin started running away from him)

When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse. [1:39]

911 dispatcher:

OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?

Zimmerman:

Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left.

He’s running. [2:08]

911 dispatcher:

He’s running? Which way is he running?

Zimmerman:

Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14] (away from Zimmerman)

911 dispatcher:

OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?

Zimmerman:

The back entrance.

[Zimmerman says something under his breath at 2:22]

911 dispatcher:

Are you following him? [2:24]

Zimmerman:

Yeah. [2:25]

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]

.................

According to Tracy Martin, the Sanford, Fla., detective recounted this sequence of events: Trayvon Martin walked up to Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Zimmerman denied following the youth and rolled up the car window. Minutes after Trayvon walked away, Zimmerman got out of his vehicle.

......

Trayvon was talking on his cell phone with his girlfriend when she heard Trayvon ask "Why are you following me?" That happened within a minute of Trayvon's death.

Her cell phone records show that the call began @ 7:12 p.m. After Zimmerman's 911 call, the Dispatcher received 911 calls reporting screams and gunshot(s), one where you can hear both the screams and the gunshot.

At 7:17p.m., as Officer Smith responds to original 911 call, he arrives on the scene and receives another call from dispatch about gunshot(s) being fired. The police report shows that he arrived on the scene at 7:17 p.m. http://cnninsession.files.wordpress.com/...

Trayvon was already dead. He was found lying on his stomach with his hands underneath his body. If Trayvon and Zimmerman were fighting and Zimmerman shot Trayvon at close range, how did Zimmerman have enough time to get Trayvon off of him before witnesses and police came out to see what happened? Where was the blood splatter? When does someone shot in the chest fall forward?

As Zimmerman's 911 call shows, Zimmerman had no intention of not following Trayvon.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/29/1078912/-The-Rest-of-Zimmerman-s-911-Call