Transgender at 5 Years Old? Kathryn wanted pants. And short hair. Then trucks and swords.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I just have a few questions for you. I'm trying to understand.

If your 5 year old daughter said "I'm a boy", would you correct her?

If your 5 year old daughter said "I'm 12", would you correct her?

If your 5 year old daughter said "Evylin is my dad", would you correct her?

I would tell that she has girl parts, but I'd also ask her more questions. What part of her feels like a boy? What thoughts does she have that make her think she IS a boy? I happen to think gender is more than a set of parts, so I would be curious.

Yes, I would. Because age is a set number, not something you "feel" or think.

Yes, I would.

Like I said, it could be just a phase. She could simply like boy things rather than girl things and to her, that makes her think she's a boy. She could outgrow it. But some don't, and some go through their entire lives feeling that way, and I wouldn't want my child looking back and wishing I'd handled it differently and let them figure it out and help them if it's not something that's going to pass.

Edited May 22, 2012 by Evylin

[^_^ 5,021]

I would tell that she has girl parts, but I'd also ask her more questions. What part of her feels like a boy? What thoughts does she have that make her think she IS a boy? I happen to think gender is more than a set of parts, so I would be curious.

Yes, I would. Because age is a set number, not something you "feel" or think.

Yes, I would.

Except in rare cases, genitalia are set too. Yet, a child with a ####### (what we in the real world call a 'boy', perhaps you're familiar with the term) can (we are told) "feel" like a girl. So why can't a 5 year old boy "feel" like he's 12?

As for the followup questions you said you'd ask.... I think you forgot that in the hypothetical I presented, the subject is 5 years old.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Except in rare cases, genitalia are set too. Yet, a child with a ####### (what we in the real world call a 'boy', perhaps you're familiar with the term) can (we are told) "feel" like a girl. So why can't a 5 year old boy "feel" like he's 12?

As for the followup questions you said you'd ask.... I think you forgot that in the hypothetical I presented, the subject is 5 years old.

Genitalia does not equal gender to me. Physically, yes. Mentally, I fully believe that there are people who believe they were born in the wrong body. They don't feel like someone of their gender "should". And if that happened to my child, I wouldn't force their gender on them through clothing or toy choices at such a young age.

I went to school with a boy who, for as long as he could remember, identified as a female. Just the way his brain worked. It started when he was old enough to talk. He knew he had boy parts, knew he was born a boy, knew his birth certificate claimed he was a boy. But he didn't feel like one. He didn't like the things that boys were supposed to like. He didn't care about cars or girls or any of that stereotypical stuff. He told his parents for years and years how he felt and they ignored him. They forced him to wear clothes he didn't like, wouldn't let him grow his hair out a bit, wouldn't allow him any "girlish" hobbies. They were convinced it was a phase or that there was something 'wrong' with him and let it go ignored, laughing him off and waiting for it to pass. It didn't. He was miserable with every aspect of his life simply because his brain told him something different than his body parts did. He killed himself in the last year of high school, leaving a note about how he just wanted to be accepted and loved for who he was and nobody allowed him that.

I refuse to let one of my children grow up that way. I am determined to accept them however they are, however they want to be, whoever they fall in love with, whatever they choose to do with their life (within reason that's not hazardous to themselves or others, of course) ... children aren't stupid. They don't pretend to be who they're not. They're honest and say what they think and feel without worrying about being judged.

[^_^ 5,021]

Genitalia does not equal gender to me. Physically, yes. Mentally, I fully believe that there are people who believe they were born in the wrong body.

You may be right.

But I do find it interesting that your beliefs allow for children with penises (boys) to "feel" they're girls and vice versa but does not allow for children who have been alive for five years to "feel" they've been around longer.

How about a white 5 year old who claims to be black?

Or a 5 year old who insists she is a Maori tribal chief?

Frankly, it seems arbitrary. There's been a lot of propaganda in our lifetimes on this gender stuff and I think that causes so many people to have more liberal stances on gender issues than they do on just about anything else.

[Karee 4,191]

I have a son who wanted to be a bank robber so I bought him a gun and gave him the keys to the car.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

You may be right.

But I do find it interesting that your beliefs allow for children with penises (boys) to "feel" they're girls and vice versa but does not allow for children who have been alive for five years to "feel" they've been around longer.

How about a white 5 year old who claims to be black?

Or a 5 year old who insists she is a Maori tribal chief?

Frankly, it seems arbitrary. There's been a lot of propaganda in our lifetimes on this gender stuff and I think that causes so many people to have more liberal stances on gender issues than they do on just about anything else.

They can feel they've been around longer. They can tell me they feel 12, and if they do, so be it. What am I to do with that information? Just like I would tell her she had girl parts, I'd tell her she's five. But feeling twelve isn't going to impact her life in a potentially negative way, the way feeling like a boy would.

Maybe I am too liberal about it. Maybe the way I would deal with the situation is wrong. But I can't imagine doing it any other way. I can't imagine trying to force my child to believe something they didn't. It's like when I was 7 and I told my Christian parents that I did not believe in any kind of God. And I think when we die, we die, there's no Heaven or no Hell. Now they could have absolutely lost their minds, forced me to attend church on Sundays and read the Bible every night before bed, but they didn't. They accepted that I felt the way I felt and let me believe what I believed (or didn't believe) ... and I thank them for it. I think if they'd have forced it on me, I'd have resented them as an adult.

[^_^ 5,021]

They can feel they've been around longer. They can tell me they feel 12, and if they do, so be it. What am I to do with that information?

If your 12 year old feels she's 18, you can tell her move out

[Penny Lane 8,159]

If your 12 year old feels she's 18, you can tell her move out

Thank you, by the way, for at least having an adult conversation with me even though we disagree or don't necessarily understand each other's point of view. It's refreshing to not have any of the petty insults dragged into it.

[^_^ 5,021]

Thank you, by the way, for at least having an adult conversation with me even though we disagree or don't necessarily understand each other's point of view. It's refreshing to not have any of the petty insults dragged into it.

Great white north living america hating commie.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Great white north living america hating commie.

The time is currently 9:10am.

... am I in the right forum for this game, or no?

[^_^ 5,021]

The time is currently 9:10am.

... am I in the right forum for this game, or no?

I wonder what would happen if we hijacked a regular thread and turned it into a game thread.

We've already seen what happens when one hijacks a game thread....

The time here is 10:14am

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Something is seriously wrong in this thread. AJ is making sense instead of straight humor/sarcasm.

Perhaps it's the fact we're 7 months from the end of the world?

Anyway, whether a child feels a certain way or not, parents shouldn't be encouraging a boy to be a girl, or a girl to be a boy. If you want to play with cars and trucks and you're a girl, cool. If you're a boy and want to play with cabbage patch dolls, whatever. However as a responsible parent in society you should also make sure that gender specific toys are in the home as well so the child can make a decision over time. It's the only way to make sure its a 'phase.' - If you buy a boy only dolls and not tonka trucks as well, you could harm the mental development of the child who otherwise might have just wanted to play with dolls for a couple of months.

[Karee 4,191]

Something is seriously wrong in this thread. AJ is making sense instead of straight humor/sarcasm.

Perhaps it's the fact we're 7 months from the end of the world?

Anyway, whether a child feels a certain way or not, parents shouldn't be encouraging a boy to be a girl, or a girl to be a boy. If you want to play with cars and trucks and you're a girl, cool. If you're a boy and want to play with cabbage patch dolls, whatever. However as a responsible parent in society you should also make sure that gender specific toys are in the home as well so the child can make a decision over time. It's the only way to make sure its a 'phase.' - If you buy a boy only dolls and not tonka trucks as well, you could harm the mental development of the child who otherwise might have just wanted to play with dolls for a couple of months.

#######? That sounds like parental responsibility. Not allowed.

[^_^ 5,021]

Something is seriously wrong in this thread. AJ is making sense instead of straight humor/sarcasm.

Perhaps it's the fact we're 7 months from the end of the world?

Anyway, whether a child feels a certain way or not, parents shouldn't be encouraging a boy to be a girl, or a girl to be a boy. If you want to play with cars and trucks and you're a girl, cool. If you're a boy and want to play with cabbage patch dolls, whatever. However as a responsible parent in society you should also make sure that gender specific toys are in the home as well so the child can make a decision over time. It's the only way to make sure its a 'phase.' - If you buy a boy only dolls and not tonka trucks as well, you could harm the mental development of the child who otherwise might have just wanted to play with dolls for a couple of months.

Actually, I've read that both boys and girls can benefit from playing with all kinds of toys and not just be limited to conventional gender specific toys. I forget specifics, but an example is that girls who play with cars end up developing better spatial skills than their female peers who play with their tea set all day.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Children are a blight on the planet. That is why we adopted a goat.