Can a POE be in London?

[grrrrreat 109]

Correcting the corrections.

Dublin doesn't do pre-clearance. It's full stop customs and immigration.

Interesting. I wonder how far this goes. Can someone show up at the Dublin airport and apply for asylum in the U.S.?

[pushbrk 12,881]

Correcting the corrections.

Dublin doesn't do pre-clearance. It's full stop customs and immigration.

Yes, and that's true of Vancouver, Toronto, Ottawa and perhaps others. Once you clear immigration in those ports, your flight arrives at a domestic terminal. In effect, you are already in the USA before boarding the plane. I've done it several times. The way it works is that once past a clearance gate, you are in a secure area. You either board a US flight or exit to the host country without boarding.

However, "Preclearance" is the official term CBP uses and both Dublin and Shannon are listed as Preclearance locations here. http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/preclear_locations.xml

Edited May 22, 2012 by pushbrk

[grrrrreat 109]

In effect, you are already in the USA before boarding the plane.

This is the part I don't really believe. Aliens can request certain benefits only from inside the U.S. or at a U.S. port of entry, such as asylum. Asylum seekers either have to be in the U.S. or at a P.O.E. It would be contrary to the purpose of this rule if asylum seekers could petition from Canada. Or, to take another example, what if someone "entered" through a Canadian POE and then tried to adjust status--all without setting foot in the U.S.?

I think there's probably a rule that even if you are inspected for entry at one of the foreign POEs, you're not actually considered admitted until you get on U.S. soil.

[alizon 77]

This is the part I don't really believe. Aliens can request certain benefits only from inside the U.S. or at a U.S. port of entry, such as asylum. Asylum seekers either have to be in the U.S. or at a P.O.E. It would be contrary to the purpose of this rule if asylum seekers could petition from Canada. Or, to take another example, what if someone "entered" through a Canadian POE and then tried to adjust status--all without setting foot in the U.S.?

I think there's probably a rule that even if you are inspected for entry at one of the foreign POEs, you're not actually considered admitted until you get on U.S. soil.

I don't know about asylum specifically, but in general they consider you as having entered the US at the pre-clearance site. I have a friend who visited New York from Ireland, then entered the US again at a later date (he's a foreign student so he's in and out a few times a year). That second CPB officer asked him where he entered the US the previous time, he said New York because that's where he first stepped foot on US soil, and the officer called him a liar and hassled him until my friend figured out that the "right" answer was Dublin.

[pushbrk 12,881]

This is the part I don't really believe. Aliens can request certain benefits only from inside the U.S. or at a U.S. port of entry, such as asylum. Asylum seekers either have to be in the U.S. or at a P.O.E. It would be contrary to the purpose of this rule if asylum seekers could petition from Canada. Or, to take another example, what if someone "entered" through a Canadian POE and then tried to adjust status--all without setting foot in the U.S.?

I think there's probably a rule that even if you are inspected for entry at one of the foreign POEs, you're not actually considered admitted until you get on U.S. soil.

"In effect" one is IN the USA once they clear the CBP posts abroad. However, they are in a secure boarding area where there are no longer any government officials of which to request asylum. Adjusting status is absurd. There's no civil surgeon in the boarding area and they don't let you sleep there for three months. One would have to wait until actual US arrival to apply for any further benefits beyond "admission" to the USA.

[grrrrreat 109]

"In effect" one is IN the USA once they clear the CBP posts abroad. However, they are in a secure boarding area where there are no longer any government officials of which to request asylum. Adjusting status is absurd. There's no civil surgeon in the boarding area and they don't let you sleep there for three months. One would have to wait until actual US arrival to apply for any further benefits beyond "admission" to the USA.

Not as absurd as you think. An Iranian refugee famously lived in a terminal in CDG for 18 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri

In certain circumstances, arriving aliens can petition to adjust status right away, and you don't need to find an official to request asylum as you can do it by mail.

Edited May 22, 2012 by grrrrreat

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Not as absurd as you think. An Iranian refugee famously lived in a terminal in CDG for 18 years: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehran_Karimi_Nasseri

In certain circumstances, arriving aliens can petition to adjust status right away, and you don't need to find an official to request asylum as you can do it by mail.

I don't know why asylum couldn't be handled at a facility like Dublin. If the officers knew how to handle it. (Old article but interesting).

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/13/national/13immig.html?pagewanted=all

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

This is the part I don't really believe. Aliens can request certain benefits only from inside the U.S. or at a U.S. port of entry, such as asylum. Asylum seekers either have to be in the U.S. or at a P.O.E. It would be contrary to the purpose of this rule if asylum seekers could petition from Canada. Or, to take another example, what if someone "entered" through a Canadian POE and then tried to adjust status--all without setting foot in the U.S.?

I think there's probably a rule that even if you are inspected for entry at one of the foreign POEs, you're not actually considered admitted until you get on U.S. soil.

I don't believe the declaration of asylum at an airport is an actual petition. More here:

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/asylum-or-refugee-status-how-32299.html

"If, however, the U.S. officials don't want to let you in, you can explain that you fear returning to your home country and ask to apply for asylum.

At that point, things will move very quickly. You may be put into a detention facility while you wait to be sent to a "credible fear" hearing with a USCIS asylum officer, which usually happens within a day or two. The officer does not have the power to approve your request for asylum -- only to decide whether you truly seem to be afraid of persecution and, therefore, deserve to have a judge hear your case. However, the officer has the power to deny people's requests and send them home without further appeals.

If you convince the asylum officer that you have a credible fear of persecution, you'll get no more than seven days to prepare to see an immigration judge -- which can make it very hard to find an attorney and properly prepare your case.

Applying in the U.S. If you successfully make it past a border or entry point and into the United States, you'll have more time to apply for asylum. In fact, you can take up to a year after entering the United States to start the process."

[grrrrreat 109]

I don't know why asylum couldn't be handled at a facility like Dublin. If the officers knew how to handle it. (Old article but interesting).

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/13/national/13immig.html?pagewanted=all

So I actually think I figured out one reason it was bothering me. Under international law, countries can't return bona fide asylees, refugees or torture victims to their home countries. So if a refugee makes it to the U.S., the U.S. is prohibited under international law from returning that refugee even if the refugee wouldn't ordinarily be admissible. As a result, many people have accused the U.S. of embarking on the preclearance program as a way of preventing refugees from entering U.S. territory. If aliens always had to be precleared, conceivably no refugee would end up in the U.S. Even if the U.S. did decide that it wanted to grant asylum from an extraterritorial P.O.E., it wouldn't be required to do so under international law. International law would tell that refugee that he needed to stay in Canada, Ireland or the Bahamas but didn't have a right to get on the plane to the U.S.

This is largely academic now, because I'd bet money that all three of those countries have more generous asylum/refugee laws than the U.S., but I am not sure.

Edited May 23, 2012 by grrrrreat

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

So I actually think I figured out one reason it was bothering me. Under international law, countries can't return bona fide asylees, refugees or torture victims to their home countries. So if a refugee makes it to the U.S., the U.S. is prohibited under international law from returning that refugee even if the refugee wouldn't ordinarily be admissible. As a result, many people have accused the U.S. of embarking on the preclearance program as a way of preventing refugees from entering U.S. territory. If aliens always had to be precleared, conceivably no refugee would end up in the U.S. Even if the U.S. did decide that it wanted to grant asylum from an extraterritorial P.O.E., it wouldn't be required to do so under international law. International law would tell that refugee that he needed to stay in Canada, Ireland or the Bahamas but didn't have a right to get on the plane to the U.S.

This is largely academic now, because I'd bet money that all three of those countries have more generous asylum/refugee laws than the U.S., but I am not sure.

Usually, most things that DHS do depends on historical patterns. I'd say it's a fair bet there wasn't much of a pattern at Dublin or Shannon of people turning up wanting asylum.

This is a photo of the facility at Shannon. I remember going through the Dublin facility last June and thinking the signage was pretty far out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shannon2.jpg

Edited May 23, 2012 by Rebecca Jo

[RiaB 1]

The flight will be from Karachi to Abu Dhabi to London to Raleigh. So the POE can be done in Raleigh? It is an international airport but I wasn't sure since it would be his first time coming here on an immigrant visa. If it can be done in Raleigh, that saves us a lot of trouble. Thank you so much for the replies.

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

*** back on topic please. If you wish to discuss the merits of pre-inspection outside of the USA, take it to the Politics forum ****

[pushbrk 12,881]

The flight will be from Karachi to Abu Dhabi to London to Raleigh. So the POE can be done in Raleigh? It is an international airport but I wasn't sure since it would be his first time coming here on an immigrant visa. If it can be done in Raleigh, that saves us a lot of trouble. Thank you so much for the replies.

Not sure what trouble you think this "possibility" is saving you. It's not like you have a choice of POE. Once you buy the ticket, the POE choice has been made. They don't sell tickets for international flights that have "options" as to the POE or that will arrive at an airport that is NOT a POE. The exceptions are the pre-clearance airports outside the USA. You can choose which ticket to buy, not what your POE will be.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

*** back on topic please. If you wish to discuss the merits of pre-inspection outside of the USA, take it to the Politics forum ****

Excuse me?

No one was arguing. Nothing was wrong. It was just the natural flow of conversation from one related topic to another............

I'm really confused. What are you moderating here?

[Penguin_ie 5,993]

Excuse me?

No one was arguing. Nothing was wrong. It was just the natural flow of conversation from one related topic to another............

I'm really confused. What are you moderating here?

There was no arguing, but the original topic was no longer being discussed, and we got reports about that. The upper forums are for immigration advice, not general discussion. You are free to start a thread in a suitable forum about pre-clearance and how that works in general; this thread is about the OPs specific question.