Witness Testimony Reveals George Zimmerman As A Bully And Racist who was Fired for Being A Bully and a Racist

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

No it doesn't. It only has to show that Zimmerman acted with a disregard for human life. The bullet through the heart is enough to show that. The second degree murder charge by itself is a slam dunk. All the elements of a prima facie case are there, by Zimmerman's own admissions. Zimmerman has to either win the immunity hearing for stand your ground (unlikely), or failing that, prove self-defense. The standard of proof for both those affirmative defenses is "preponderance of the evidence", the same as a plaintiff in a civil action, except that the jury must come to a unanimous decision in the end.

You cut a key part of the law out Bill. They have to show maliciousness, viciousness, moral corruptness - i.e. a depraved mind.

[PMartin37 161]

Does anyone here have an idea of how Zimmerman managed to draw his gun while being straddled by Martin? In other words, where did Zimmerman physically holster his gun and how was able to draw it with Martin on top of him? Zimmerman is listed as 2" shorter, but looks to have weighed closed to 200lbs at the time, or at least having a considerable weight advantage over Martin.

Or how about this... Zimmerman say that Martin was reaching for his gun but whose fingerprints were recovered on the gun. If there was a struggle for it, that would indicate maybe both. Evidence presented to the public is nowhere near what they actually have. Will be interesting to see how this all goes down.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Or how about this... Zimmerman say that Martin was reaching for his gun but whose fingerprints were recovered on the gun. If there was a struggle for it, that would indicate maybe both. Evidence presented to the public is nowhere near what they actually have. Will be interesting to see how this all goes down.

Can you link me? I wasn't aware they had released this.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Another item I find rather compelling is that Trayvon's girlfriend has said from the beginning that she hears Trayvon ask Zimmerman why are you following me?? ..followed by a thud. Now...you don't normally drop your phone unless someone shoves you or knocks it out of your hand. How is this possible if Trayvon

I didn't think about the fact that he needed a free hand to hold his cell phone. So, one hand he's holding his bottle of iced tea and the other is holding his cell phone up to his ear. That makes it all the more incredible to believe that Martin jumped Zimmerman and tried to pummel him to death.

[PMartin37 161]

Can you link me? I wasn't aware they had released this.

They haven't. That was the point of my post. The public doesn't know this, but it could be evidence they might use during trial for either side. My point was, do you honestly think that they put all their cards on the table before trial starts? I'm thinking no.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Or how about this... Zimmerman say that Martin was reaching for his gun but whose fingerprints were recovered on the gun. If there was a struggle for it, that would indicate maybe both. Evidence presented to the public is nowhere near what they actually have. Will be interesting to see how this all goes down.

Some witnesses said they heard, "I've got a gun! I've got a gun!" If Zimmerman failed to identify himself as being on 'neighborhood watch' to Martin, pursued him, including getting out of his vehicle and then confronting Martin, it will be clear to the jurors that it was very likely that Martin, not Zimmerman, had a reasonable fear for his life and acted accordingly. Zimmerman then used Martin's aggression to justify in his mind to use deadly force, then believing he acted in self defense.

[PMartin37 161]

I didn't think about the fact that he needed a free hand to hold his cell phone. So, one hand he's holding his bottle of iced tea and the other is holding his cell phone up to his ear. That makes it all the more incredible to believe that Martin jumped Zimmerman and tried to pummel him to death.

Right, he must have thrown down his drink and cell phone like it was showdown at the OK Corral right? Even though Zimmerman clearly had a gun. Yeah, that's what happened.

[PMartin37 161]

Some witnesses said they heard, "I've got a gun! I've got a gun!" If Zimmerman failed to identify himself as being on 'neighborhood watch' to Martin, pursued him, including getting out of his vehicle and then confronting Martin, it will be clear to the jurors that it was very likely that Martin, not Zimmerman, had a reasonable fear for his life and acted accordingly. Zimmerman then used Martin's aggression to justify in his mind to use deadly force, then believing he acted in self defense.

I'm truly hoping some sort of common sense or logical thought processes will happen on this jury panel WHEN it goes to trial. If they're methodical and chronological in their presentation...I'm thinking they have a shot. (pun intended)

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I'm truly hoping some sort of common sense or logical thought processes will happen on this jury panel WHEN it goes to trial. If they're methodical and chronological in their presentation...I'm thinking they have a shot. (pun intended)

Amen to that. I've learned a lot in the past few days and I am more confident that the prosecution has a strong case as opposed to the claim that the charge was an act of appeasement to the public's outrage over Zimmerman going scott free.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I'm truly hoping some sort of common sense or logical thought processes will happen on this jury panel WHEN it goes to trial. If they're methodical and chronological in their presentation...I'm thinking they have a shot. (pun intended)

I predict a hung jury unless there is a silver bullet or two of evidence presented (pun intended too lol).

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

You cut a key part of the law out Bill. They have to show maliciousness, viciousness, moral corruptness - i.e. a depraved mind.

The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree...

http://www.myfloridahouse.gov/FileStores/Web/Statutes/FS09/Ch0782/Section_0782.04.HTM

You have to look at the definitions of first degree and third degree murder to understand the archaic meaning of a depraved mind. In the case of first degree murder, there is premeditation. In third degree murder, there is no intent. That leaves second degree murder, without premeditation, but with intent.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

You have to look at the definitions of first degree and third degree murder to understand the archaic meaning of a depraved mind. In the case of first degree murder, there is premeditation. In third degree murder, there is no intent. That leaves second degree murder, without premeditation, but with intent.

I think we are on the same page then though i'd still add the "malicious" or "corrupt" to intent.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I think we are on the same page then though i'd still add the "malicious" or "corrupt" to intent.

If you do a google search on "evincing a depraved mind", you might find a little more clarity.

Also, some of the earlier cites, use the term, "depraved heart".

Edited May 18, 2012 by ☼

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

If you do a google search on "evincing a depraved mind", you might find a little more clarity.

Also, some of the earlier cites, use the term, "depraved heart".

This was one of the first examples that popped up (specifically referring to Florida)

Details released today in documents by the State Attorney’s Office reveal a catalogue of hundreds of bloody items examined by investigators in the home of a Naples man accused of beheading his girlfriend last July.

Christopher Serna, 35, is charged with second-degree murder while evincing a depraved mind. ... Bishop's head was stuck on a pole in the living room. Her nude body was found on the floor in a pool of blood in a bedroom

Edited May 18, 2012 by Sousuke

[B_J 2,752]

Or how about this... Zimmerman say that Martin was reaching for his gun but whose fingerprints were recovered on the gun. If there was a struggle for it, that would indicate maybe both. Evidence presented to the public is nowhere near what they actually have. Will be interesting to see how this all goes down.

George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch crime captain who shot dead 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, originally told police in a written statement that Martin knocked him down with a punch to the nose, repeatedly slammed his head on the ground and tried to take his gun, a police source told ABC News

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239#.T7bciVKO25K

It would be interesting to know if there were fingerprints. Also, I'd like to know the angle that the bullet went into Martin.

Edited May 18, 2012 by B_J