Some Alabama farmers cut back crops, citing illegal immigration crackdown

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You can tell yourself this as much as you want but it will still not be true.

Then how come the Dems don't implement laws to get rid of the illegals?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The level of wage necessary is not really the issue. Like in most other areas of the economy, use a level playing field and let the laws of supply and demand determine how high a wage must be to get enough workers!

Exactly. Level the palying field and make ALL workers equal in protections. The only way to insure that is to make all workers LEGAL and able to file complaints against employers that do not comply with the law.

The way to make all employers legal is to make it economical suicide not to be. The RISK of abusing humans for profit MUST be made to exceed, by far, the benefit of doing so. When it does, it will stop. Until it does, it will not. No fence, no drones, no increase in border patrol, nothing will stop it as long as it is PROFITABLE to do it.

[james&olya 1,121]

Really? Then I would like to see the Democrats/Liberals LEAD in this matter and demand the end of this abuse. Why are they not doing that James? It seems every move they make is only to continue to insure the presence of an exploited underclass in this country. It is revolting.

I agree that what happens in DC is often revolting. Most revolting for me is how many Democrats/Liberals wind up just as corrupted as the other side of the aisle. Money corrupts and it is an equal opportunity poison! The rank and file support what you propose. Some legislators do as well. Unfortunately not enough to overcome those who have sold out to the big-money interests.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Sure if you can post without irrelevent comparisons. Why would you compare illegals that have NOTHING with legal workers that have unemployment for the off season? That's a question, not an accusation. Do you think you are talking to someone that doesn't know this business, hasn't been in a seasonal business for nearly 40 years? The only "nomadic" construction workers are the ones jumping on their Harleys and soaking up sun (and direct deposit unemployment checks), plus EBT cards and medicaid in Florida for the winter and wander back about late April to go back to work.

The nomadic workers are illegals that have no choice because they are being exploited and have none of the protections legal workers have.

Sorry but I have no tolerance or civility for the abuse of humans and exploitation of people because they are brown.

Where have I mentioned illegals? I haven't even posted a comparison Gary! Where have I mentioned nomadic construction workers? I mean your making uncivil accusations about things I haven't even said and you have done it in multiple threads that I post in...where you rush out with personal attacks against me that aren't even on topic!

Edited May 16, 2012 by Sousuke

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Where have I mentioned illegals? I haven't even posted a comparison Gary! Where have I mentioned nomadic construction workers? I mean your making uncivil accusations about things I haven't even said and you have done it in multiple threads that I post in...where you rush out with personal attacks against me that aren't even on topic!

You can't reason with insanity.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

You can't reason with insanity.

Well I think he is starting to personally target me on purpose with irrelevant off topic attacks because this is something like the 5th time in two weeks.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Sousuke

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Well I think he is starting to personally target me on purpose with irrelevant off topic attacks because this is something like the 5th time in two weeks.

I really do not care enough about you to do that. But you are one that answers and posts. People like Steven run away, so if you stick your nose out there, you may get it punched. All in good sport old fellow. Just give it them back!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

You asked why I was making a comparison. The problem is I never made one, so its hard to answer about something I did not do.

What I have stated is that laborers who work during harvests are migrant because harvests are very short. A worker may only work for an employer for 2 or 3 weeks, then they need to move on to the next big harvest likely in another state. An employer is not going to hire a person as an employee in this situation, they would use contractors...so all of the SS, medicare, benefits etc need to be wrapped into their pay - hence my statement that the hourly pay needs to be very high - 40+ to incorporate all of this plus the need to shift to different employers and move around to new farms. And contractors are not typically eligible for unemployment from what I know.

Thats it. That was all I was saying, nothing about illegals, nothing about construction, nothing political really... just harvesting produce.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Kathryn41
to remove quote of post removed for TOS violations

[one...two...tree 2,762]

you stick your nose out there, you may get it punched.

There you have it. The schoolyard bully.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

There you have it. The schoolyard bully.

I thought that was Mitt Romney...at least according to the libs.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You asked why I was making a comparison. The problem is I never made one, so its hard to answer about something I did not do.

What I have stated is that laborers who work during harvests are migrant because harvests are very short. A worker may only work for an employer for 2 or 3 weeks, then they need to move on to the next big harvest likely in another state. An employer is not going to hire a person as an employee in this situation, they would use contractors...so all of the SS, medicare, benefits etc need to be wrapped into their pay - hence my statement that the hourly pay needs to be very high - 40+ to incorporate all of this plus the need to shift to different employers and move around to new farms. And contractors are not typically eligible for unemployment from what I know.

Thats it. That was all I was saying, nothing about illegals, nothing about construction, nothing political really... just harvesting produce.

Ok I underatand your misconception now.

The workers you mention, and there are some legal workers that do this, particularly those with expensive equipment such as the combines that move from south to north harvesting wheat. On the other hand we have a state like this one with almost NO illegal immigrants working, recent estimate is less than 1200 statewide. We are an agricultural state and many of the same workers work at ski resorts, maple sugaring, timber and forest work, apple harvest, then back to the ski resorts. Maybe mixing a little construction in, usually as laborers. When not working they collect unemployment. They get paid respectable wages, more than the Vermont minimum which is more than the Fed minimum and usually some benefits, but at least SS and medicare and UI.

Tradesman get paid a lot more, $22-28 per hour PLUS full benefits PLUS UI. Those guys make enough to qualify for maximum unemployement in winter and many volunteer to take layoffs, file for EBT cards and medicaid and go to Florida or at least the Carolinas for the winter. Some stay here and work part time (they can work part time and still get UI) or do a little "black money" work, often snow removal. They actually manage to cobble together some impressive gross incomes. They are treated well, get benefits, workmans comp if they are hurt, diability if they are hurt...basically treated like humans. They have their own homes, cars, etc.

Many of those kinds of jobs are being done by illegals in other states. I think the cold weather drives them off from here to be honest. NH and ME also have few illegals. I also think that local people would not bepleased to see illegal crews show up to roof their homes. Despite being liberal, this is Old New Engfland and people are real conservative in their liberalism. This is the home of Ethan Allen and Ticonderoga, where we still have the cannons aimed out over the lake in case those Bloody Brits come back! They are not going to take well to illegals roofing their home.

The US will survive without exploited labor, some things will cost more but a lot of burden will be relieved from ocal government and schools.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Of course there are no illegals in Vermont. There aren't any people in Vermont. It's like North Dakota. Even illegals don't like it.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Ok I underatand your misconception now.

The workers you mention, and there are some legal workers that do this, particularly those with expensive equipment such as the combines that move from south to north harvesting wheat. On the other hand we have a state like this one with almost NO illegal immigrants working, recent estimate is less than 1200 statewide. We are an agricultural state and many of the same workers work at ski resorts, maple sugaring, timber and forest work, apple harvest, then back to the ski resorts. Maybe mixing a little construction in, usually as laborers. When not working they collect unemployment. They get paid respectable wages, more than the Vermont minimum which is more than the Fed minimum and usually some benefits, but at least SS and medicare and UI.

Tradesman get paid a lot more, $22-28 per hour PLUS full benefits PLUS UI. Those guys make enough to qualify for maximum unemployement in winter and many volunteer to take layoffs, file for EBT cards and medicaid and go to Florida or at least the Carolinas for the winter. Some stay here and work part time (they can work part time and still get UI) or do a little "black money" work, often snow removal. They actually manage to cobble together some impressive gross incomes. They are treated well, get benefits, workmans comp if they are hurt, diability if they are hurt...basically treated like humans. They have their own homes, cars, etc.

Many of those kinds of jobs are being done by illegals in other states. I think the cold weather drives them off from here to be honest. NH and ME also have few illegals. I also think that local people would not bepleased to see illegal crews show up to roof their homes. Despite being liberal, this is Old New Engfland and people are real conservative in their liberalism. This is the home of Ethan Allen and Ticonderoga, where we still have the cannons aimed out over the lake in case those Bloody Brits come back! They are not going to take well to illegals roofing their home.

The US will survive without exploited labor, some things will cost more but a lot of burden will be relieved from ocal government and schools.

You mean your misconception, correct? This thread is talking about produce farming. You cannot harvest tomatoes or grapes with a combine. Farms need manual labor and must swell their workforce for a few weeks to a month of time. Sure they may have a few regular seasonal workers that fit your description but at harvest time they need very temporary help.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Sousuke

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You mean your misconception, correct? This thread is talking about produce farming. You cannot harvest tomatoes or grapes with a combine. Farms need manual labor and must swell their workforce for a few weeks to a month of time. Sure they may have a few regular seasonal workers that fit your description but at harvest time they need very temporary help.

Yes, exactly, I meant "your misconception". I checked again and that is what I said.

And why would they need illegals for that help? Why couldn't LEGAL workers provide help?

Of course there are no illegals in Vermont. There aren't any people in Vermont. It's like North Dakota. Even illegals don't like it.

I'm a people!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Yes, exactly, I meant "your misconception". I checked again and that is what I said.

And why would they need illegals for that help? Why couldn't LEGAL workers provide help?

I'm a people!

Your as in "Gary's Misconception" correct?

Edited May 16, 2012 by Sousuke