Rabat Salafists assault woman over dress

[sandinista! 1,816]

Good for your strong opinions but it remains clear you did not understand my post

Where did you get the assumption I was making a point about men NOT being wrong in not diverting their gaze and this is ALL her fault? And in answering your question...What actually "Never Occurred to Me" was that a simple posting of what I observed could elicit such a harsh reaction from a stranger on VJ. With cursing too.

The observation was young and old, male and female and children all were influenced by the way this young woman chose to dress so skimpy and I shared this because I had seen this first hand in a country where the majority leans towards more modestly dressed women. That is all.

I refuse to accept that I was a part of what you call "asinine victim blaming of sexual victims,"...The tone of both your posts are as if there is a heated debate with another. Or you have need to fight with someone??? I dont know and dont care why. Because,

this person I am not.

But be assured I have no interest in continuing to defend my observation and personal opinion on dressing modestly....So I ask you again, please refrain from judgmentally posting towards me .....as I have attempted to explain 2x now, it was not written this way.

If you need to make your point more power to ya....but your misconstruing my posts.

what you are failing to understand is that comments like yours plant the seed, over and over and over, that what women wear has anything to do with crimes and degrading things being committed against them by men, anywhere in the world. it's dangerous, irresponsible, and wrong.

if you knew or understood the first thing about this problem, and how things can go down in the MENA region, you would know that in places like egypt, women covering every square inch of their bodies, with just their faces exposed, have been sexually harassed and/or molested by strangers walking down the street. it's a problem, whether a woman is dressed like that, or like the woman you saw in morocco. but clearly there is more to this issue going on than dressing like "Kim Kardashian" in MENA. no matter how much you try to spin your wheels on this, comments like "but i wish to know how short is short" following any kind of story like this are just wrong.

[Shoot Em Straight 385]

Nope, I was not trying to say anything intended with the actual crime of the post and the victim.

I only shared my experience of what I personally saw and that I feel for ME dressing more demure in a Muslim country is a better choice.For me personally.

This is it.

And though other peoples opinions are respected on VJ by myself, I did not and still do not like the other poster's way of swiping at me or my words.

NO more No less

And no blame on a thief in your cell phone theory. I am not judging either woman in either story. Just sharing an event I personally saw.

In the last sentence I will quote again....For me I see it as a form of self respect.

For me. Dressing modestly. For me.

Even in here in S.D. I tend to dress modestly and see it cool Less showing is more respectful.

FOR ME.

Not the victim in the article. Not the young woman that caused the stir at the train station.

[james&olya 1,121]

women's bodies aren't phones. there aren't analogies to be made here to inanimate objects-a woman, a person, was straight up sexually assaulted.

i don't think you're trying to be offensive in saying that, but it nevertheless is.

Sorry to offend you! Of course women's bodies are far different than inanimate objects. Their is no comparison of the crimes themselves!!! My point was just that the crime is no less egregious because of circumstances that could be cited as 'temptation' by the offender. That does not take away from the stupidity of doing something that increases your chance of becoming a police blotter statistic!

My use of an example involving an inanimate object was an attempt to see an analogy in a situation that does not stir up the level of emotion that is always involved in sexual assault! If you expect others to try and place themselves in the shoes of potential abuse victims, than you also need to do the equivalent and stop seeing everything as only a victim! You detract from your ability to effectively raise awareness when you refuse to acknowledge the obvious! It gives those who do not want to change old attitudes an excuse in thinking that if only one point can be valid, they will remain with theirs and stop considering yours!

[james&olya 1,121]

women's bodies aren't phones. there aren't analogies to be made here to inanimate objects-a woman, a person, was straight up sexually assaulted.

i don't think you're trying to be offensive in saying that, but it nevertheless is.

I would add further that there are multiple problems here. A woman's body should NEVER be seen as an object. I get that. But I also realize that for a huge number of people they are not yet evolved enough in their thinking to understand that. So in order to deal effectively with people in the real world in which we live I strongly advise women I care about, including you, to not do things that might result in tragic outcomes! I will be no less outraged when a low-life does commit a crime of assault and I will not consider it even slightly in his or her favor that the victim somehow, in the twisted mind of the perpetrator, 'invited' the crime. I join you in calling that absolute BS! But at home, my daughter will be advised that dressing provocatively in places frequented by a preponderance of individuals I would suspect of having 'primitive' attitudes is something she should never do if possible! Not to make it easier for the men there to avoid being tempted into criminal activity. But to make it less likely for my daughter to become that police statistic! Do you get what I am saying? It seems very basic and straight-forward to me and most of the people I know.

[Shoot Em Straight 385]

what you are failing to understand is that comments like yours plant the seed, over and over and over, that what women wear has anything to do with crimes and degrading things being committed against them by men, anywhere in the world. it's dangerous, irresponsible, and wrong.

if you knew or understood the first thing about this problem, and how things can go down in the MENA region, you would know that in places like egypt, women covering every square inch of their bodies, with just their faces exposed, have been sexually harassed and/or molested by strangers walking down the street. it's a problem, whether a woman is dressed like that, or like the woman you saw in morocco. but clearly there is more to this issue going on than dressing like "Kim Kardashian" in MENA. no matter how much you try to spin your wheels on this, comments like "but i wish to know how short is short" following any kind of story like this are just wrong.

What your'e failing to understand?????

Your postings come off with many offending personal jabs and it is not acceptable to me. Where you might have good strong opinions it gets ugly by an indignant way you write.

no matter how much you try to spin your wheels on this...

asinine victim blaming

if you knew or understood the first thing about this problem and how this go down in MENA region

comments like yours plant the seed

My comment was intended to convey how I like choice of dressing modest and I personally seen it first hand how one young ladies choice made a stir.

There is clearly an anger issue with you, your manners of posting might have a good idea but it is injected with venom and becomes unappealing to read and hard not to be offended.

It is not worth replying to explain things further.

[james&olya 1,121]

What your'e failing to understand?????

Where you might have good strong opinions it gets ugly by an indignant way you write.

There is clearly an anger issue with you, your manners of posting might have a good idea but it is injected with venom and becomes unappealing to read and hard not to be offended.

[Dan and Judy 614]

a good caning would be the proper punishment

[Mithra 1,185]

This is true. I've seen it with my own eyes. Clothes make no difference, for the most part. There is a big problem and it's not the way a woman chooses to dress. Not even women...girls. Girls as young as 10-12 years old. The cat calls, the groping, the weird noise they make with their tongue and teeth...it's disgusting.

what you are failing to understand is that comments like yours plant the seed, over and over and over, that what women wear has anything to do with crimes and degrading things being committed against them by men, anywhere in the world. it's dangerous, irresponsible, and wrong.

if you knew or understood the first thing about this problem, and how things can go down in the MENA region, you would know that in places like egypt, women covering every square inch of their bodies, with just their faces exposed, have been sexually harassed and/or molested by strangers walking down the street. it's a problem, whether a woman is dressed like that, or like the woman you saw in morocco. but clearly there is more to this issue going on than dressing like "Kim Kardashian" in MENA. no matter how much you try to spin your wheels on this, comments like "but i wish to know how short is short" following any kind of story like this are just wrong.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Mithra

[mawilson 2,133]

They were following Allah's words, come on, islam is peaceful!

They were rabid Salafists. Regular Salafists are peaceful

[afoyoswa 178]

Aside from the obvious issues with victim-blaming, the obvious problem with suggesting that "modesty" would have prevented this (or the attention that the girl at the train station received) is that "modesty" is completely relative and context-specific. If you are in a place where the head must be covered, seeing hair is enticing. In a place where only eyes may be left uncovered, noses are. In a place where long skirts are expected, knees are. Rather than perpetuate the idea that women can only expect to be left to go about their business in peace and safety as long as they are dressed according to what the cultural norms of the time, place, time of day, area of town, observer, etc. say is "modest," can we not just say that this sort of behavior toward women is completely unacceptable in any circumstances whatsoever?

Reminds me of this.

Edited May 16, 2012 by afoyoswa