Is K-1 the best way for us?

[Julie y Pat 67]

Some of these issues that are grey areas are consulate specific. What might not raise an eyebrow at one consulate may mean failure at another. I was just reading in the adjudicators field manual, and it's kind of grey there, too. "As a general rule, the validity of a marriage is judged by the law of the place of celebration." My read on that is that if it would be valid, it is valid.

[dalatian 4]

Can't prove? All they have to do is contact the city hall in Seoul and check if my name and my gf's name are registered as married. If they are not, then legally we are not married. What am I missing here?

I'm so sick of people accusing me of fraud or cheating the system, I'm not at all! If the rule states LEGALLY MARRIED, than I will do whatever to obey that. If the rules state that any marriage gathering/ceremony/event resembling a wedding/marriage counts as married and therefore disqualifies me from getting the visa, obviously I won't do that. So which way is it?

For someone you don't even know its amazing how little credit or benefit of the doubt some of you give me. So quick to judge and accuse on the site.

Because immigrating to the US is a privilege, you will have to prove to the authority and follow all strict immigration rules, not the other way around. It sounds frustrating but that's simply the way it is given how complex the system is (try to put yourself in their shoe). You can continue with your original plan and it might work out as you intend for it to be. However, peace of mind at every step all the way (NOA2, interview, POE etc.) might be worthwhile to put off a few months apart from each other. After all, you'll have a life long together, won't you? A few months is just a drop of water in the ocean. I'd do the CR-1 route if I were you. Good luck.

[TnJ 131]

A lot of people are giving you good advice here. :thumbs:

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Forget all the semantics about legally or not legally married. The consular officer has the AUTHORITY to use their DISCRETION to deny the visa if they even SUSPECT the beneficiary is not eligible. The CBP officer at the port of entry has the same AUTHORITY to use their DISCRETION.

I capitalized the words above intentionally. Immigration officers at every step of the way have wide latitude and discretion to deny. Why? Because immigration is not a right. It's a privilege that you must ask the government to grant. Immigration officers see a lot of fraud where marriage is concerned, and they're trained to sniff it out. If they even suspect fraud then they'll use the the discretion their authority gives them, and they'll deny.

Is the system "broken"? Yes! They sometimes deny people who have legitimate relationships, and they sometimes approve people who do not. However, this isn't a court where you have something substantial to lose if they mistakenly decide against you. If you're denied then you are in the same boat you were in before you applied - nothing changes. Because of this they tend to try to err on the side of stopping scammers, even if it means shooting down some legitimate couples.

It's really that simple. It's their game, and they make the rules.

[Darkmoonfaerie 19]

Can't prove? All they have to do is contact the city hall in Seoul and check if my name and my gf's name are registered as married. If they are not, then legally we are not married. What am I missing here?

I'm so sick of people accusing me of fraud or cheating the system, I'm not at all! If the rule states LEGALLY MARRIED, than I will do whatever to obey that. If the rules state that any marriage gathering/ceremony/event resembling a wedding/marriage counts as married and therefore disqualifies me from getting the visa, obviously I won't do that. So which way is it?

For someone you don't even know its amazing how little credit or benefit of the doubt some of you give me. So quick to judge and accuse on the site.

I'm not accusing or judging so don't even go there. I have not given you attitude. I have explained how an official would look at it. They see fraud all the time and don't know if you're honest or a scammer. I'm telling you what HAS happened in the past and MAY happen to you. I know for me, I wouldn't risk a denial and an extra year away from my love (or possibly a ban for material misrepresentation). We all want to have the best for our lives and for our families to celebrate with us. For me, it means K1, wedding in the states, head back to England next year and do a big party there for his family who can't travel. We're all in the same boat here. It's frustrating for everyone and we all have to follow the same rules. Do whatever you want, it's not my life. If you're going to have a serious attitude towards me for explaining things that you don't want to hear then I'm sorry, I'm done.

[Dereklee003 2]

Okay, thanks everyone for your replies and help. Yes, as I'm new to learning about this process I was mostly just frustrated with how the system seems to be set up. But, I guess at the end of the day I have to just fall in line and do everything the right way that will give me the best chance to be approved. I have nothing but honest intentions and don't want to cheat the system and risk denial or anything like that.

With that said, I have just one last question. For those of you getting married or who were married in both countries (US and your spouse's country), which visa route did you use? And is it best to marry in US first or the spouses country?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Can't prove? All they have to do is contact the city hall in Seoul and check if my name and my gf's name are registered as married. If they are not, then legally we are not married. What am I missing here?

I'm so sick of people accusing me of fraud or cheating the system, I'm not at all! If the rule states LEGALLY MARRIED, than I will do whatever to obey that. If the rules state that any marriage gathering/ceremony/event resembling a wedding/marriage counts as married and therefore disqualifies me from getting the visa, obviously I won't do that. So which way is it?

For someone you don't even know its amazing how little credit or benefit of the doubt some of you give me. So quick to judge and accuse on the site.

That's VisaJourney.

You just need to shut off the screamers and listen to the cooler heads.

[gyselle 4]

Do you plan to tell your fiancee's family that you are having a FAKE wedding for them, and the REAL wedding will be in the US? Or will the REAL wedding be in Korea and the FAKE one in the US for visa purposes?

I really dont see the issue here.

We framed our non-legal wedding as a "celebration"...to the US consulate....to my friends and family.

We explained to them that because my husband worked in Singapore for a while, so we have a lot of friends there, and most of family was there..his family flew from USA to celebrate with us.

If the "words you say to each other" makes a "wedding", why is there and issue about FAKE/REAL?

We told my family that the wedding is a celebration together with the family, the one in the USA is purely for legal purposes.

It is just a piece of paper, the legal work, what needs to be done to get the visa for me to stay here.

Whatever it is, you just have to make it clear, its a "real wedding" in the eyes of the law, because of the piece of paper.

The words you say to your partner, the commitment you make to each other, it is a celebration of your union. "real" wedding or not.

My husband and I consider our "celebration date" as our wedding date.... but thats between us and our friends and family.

In front of the legal folks, just be smart about the words you choose. this is NOT misrepresentation, this is not fraud.

[Julie y Pat 67]

I really dont see the issue here.

We framed our non-legal wedding as a "celebration"...to the US consulate....to my friends and family.

We explained to them that because my husband worked in Singapore for a while, so we have a lot of friends there, and most of family was there..his family flew from USA to celebrate with us.

If the "words you say to each other" makes a "wedding", why is there and issue about FAKE/REAL?

We told my family that the wedding is a celebration together with the family, the one in the USA is purely for legal purposes.

It is just a piece of paper, the legal work, what needs to be done to get the visa for me to stay here.

Whatever it is, you just have to make it clear, its a "real wedding" in the eyes of the law, because of the piece of paper.

The words you say to your partner, the commitment you make to each other, it is a celebration of your union. "real" wedding or not.

My husband and I consider our "celebration date" as our wedding date.... but thats between us and our friends and family.

In front of the legal folks, just be smart about the words you choose. this is NOT misrepresentation, this is not fraud.

I think it's fraud writ large. Like not telling the IRS about cash income. The issue about real or fake is that you're not supposed to be married before you enter the US. The reason the visa was created was because some countries prohibit marriage to foreigners. For people who would have been applying for spousal visas, but law wouldn't allow them to marry, so they could never apply for it. Now it is often used by couples who would have been applying for spousal visas, but don't want to be separated after they get married and wait for a petition and interview. But I think exceptions should be made for couples whose love for each other is so profound that it would be tragic for them to be apart for a single day after they're married

[gyselle 4]

This is nothing like not telling IRS about cash income.

You can say all you want about it being "fraud writ large" and all your sarcasm about people taking a K1 visa route is certainly not appreciated.

In Singapore, when I had my K1 interview, the lady asked me, "So, do you have plans for your wedding day?"

I said, "Yes, we plan to have a non-legal wedding celebration on XXX and we plan to get married in City Hall when I entered the US." I even showed her the wedding invitation to the "non-legal wedding", which of course, looks like a normal wedding invite.

In fact, the lady looked at my case and she even said, "It's nice to have such a straightforward case for once"

In US, when I had my green card interview, they asked to see the photos of the wedding. We showed him to photos of me in my wedding dress, my groom in a tux, and a picture of the family and friends there...and said, "we had a non-legal wedding on XXX", and we took out our City Hall pic (which was pretty much us, one witness, and the person marrying us). He told us to just write "not formal wedding" (sorry, not celebration) on the non-legal wedding photos. When he asked us, "when did you get married", my husband replied, "in City Hall? XXX". In fact, when we were done, he said, "Ya, you should get your approval today, and i just need to do a background check". A few hours later...we were approved online.

I have even posted my GC interview experience:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/357346-aos-interview-experience-san-fran/page__p__5227380__fromsearch__1#entry5227380

It is not fraud as we have clearly demarcated the difference to them.

If it was really fraud, we wouldnt have showed them our invite, wouldnt have showed them our pictures, especially not the wedding dress picture!!

Our family and friends all know, we have a wedding date and a legal wedding date.

This is my own personal experience.

This is what I did.

Maybe this was alright for us because we were a "straightforward case"? This is both our first application, first marriage, no children. I come from a low-risk country, we lived in the same location for a period of time. Who knows?

I am sure there are a million and one ways to have a visa denied. For example, my friends who had an Indian wedding almost didnt get her green card because they wanted to see one photograph that had all the guests in it (they have them a lot of ####### about it during the interview, she really thought she wouldnt get it...but she was approved a week later). When I said chose your words carefully, I mean dont be going around saying "I had a fake wedding on XXX".

I do hear some of people's concerns, and I know posters like Darkmoonfaerie are being kind and just raising the possibility of how it might look. They are just being helpful and advising people to err on a side of caution. If you have any reason to be considered "risky", my advice would be do what is safe.

Edited May 17, 2012 by gyselle

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

gyselle - Your result at your consulate could vary wildly from someone else's result at a different consulate.

And your opinion that since it was a first marriage for both of you, no children, first application - these are just parts of a "straight forward" case. In another country someone in your same shoes could be blown out of the water with a ceremony that looks anything like a wedding.

I don't necessarily consider these things to be "fraud writ large". But I don't consider them to be quite all right either. If there are religious or cultural issues which weigh more heavily on one partner's culture then the other, then IMO the legal wedding should be in that country. Otherwise, I tend to think the big non-legal ceremony is just people wanting to throw a big party.

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Okay, thanks everyone for your replies and help. Yes, as I'm new to learning about this process I was mostly just frustrated with how the system seems to be set up. But, I guess at the end of the day I have to just fall in line and do everything the right way that will give me the best chance to be approved. I have nothing but honest intentions and don't want to cheat the system and risk denial or anything like that.

With that said, I have just one last question. For those of you getting married or who were married in both countries (US and your spouse's country), which visa route did you use? And is it best to marry in US first or the spouses country?

Derek hun, you can't get married in both countries.

[Julie y Pat 67]

Why go through the trouble of clearly demonstrating the difference between a non legal wedding celebration and the legal one at city hall? Any plans if the interviewer for ROC takes a good look at some of the photos from the "celebration" in Singapore and thinks it looks like two people getting married? Were you wearing a celebration dress and exchanging celebration rings? If you have to be careful how you word something, somethings not right.

[Julie y Pat 67]

My husband and I consider our "celebration date" as our wedding date.... but thats between us and our friends and family.

In front of the legal folks, just be smart about the words you choose. this is NOT misrepresentation, this is not fraud.

This is nothing but misrepresentation

Edited May 17, 2012 by Julie y Pat

[gyselle 4]

Rebecca Jo: Perhaps.

Julie y Pat: Yes. My "celebration dress" was a wedding dress, yes we exchange wedding rings. No, there was no paperwork involved, nothing was signed, nothing was submitted, just two people, in a fancy wedding getup, saying a bunch of words, in front of their friends and family. And we had a party after that..we had a celebration of our union. In fact, I think in the US, gay people do this all the time, but they are still fighting to get their union legally recognised.

I'll be honest and say with regards to "Any plans if the interviewer for ROC takes a good look at some of the photos from the "celebration" in Singapore and thinks it looks like two people getting married?", it never crossed my mind. Trust me, he doesnt have to take a good look, it is very obvious i was in a wedding getup. And yes, he caught it, because when he asked us when we were married, my husband said "In US/City Hall?" and he said "You mentioned US? Was there another one?" and we explained..and then..showed him the pics...and we even wrote down the date, location and the words "not-formal". This is in hard copy, documented, in my file that is sitting in some US government cabinet now. Again, if I had the intention to commit fraud, NONE of the pictures, the writing, the conversation would even be brought up.

All the forms and instructions says "You need to legally free to marry," which we are. Our wedding in Thailand was not legal and thats why i told the OP to check and make sure the law of the country doesnt consider religious/ceremonial weddings legal.

So yes, I took great pains to emphasis non-legal vs legal (or as the officer puts it, non-formal vs formal) because I wanted to emphasis we were "LEGALLY FREE TO MARRY".

AND My husband and I consider our "celebration date" as our wedding date.... but thats between us and our friends and family.

In front of the legal folks, just be smart about the words you choose. this is NOT misrepresentation, this is not fraud.

This is nothing but misrepresentation

if anyone was to ask us when we got married, we will tell them our "non-legal, celebration date". We will probably also celebrate our anniversary that date as well...and yes, our family and friend will probably send us congrats msgs then. But, we will also tell people, "but our legal wedding date is XXX"..and yes, I will probably wrangle another anniversary gift for our legal wedding date..BUT, if anyone from the government asks, we will say our legal date is XXX, but we our non-legal date is XXX"

When I say "be smart about the words you choose", I mean dont say things like "FAKE WEDDING". Coz to the legal staff, a fake wedding is a wedding that people have to just get a visa and there is no love involved. Use words like "non-formal/non-legal". "no paperwork".

Is this really misrepresentation?!?

This will be my last message on this thread coz I am tired of this back and forth.

I dont appreciate being accused of fraud when if I really was to commit fraud, I really wont be stupid enough to share information with the officer who pretty much decides my fate...or even post in the forum here encouraging other people to commit fraud.

I am just sharing my experience and what I did.

I will leave it up to the individuals to decide what course of action they want to decide for themselves.

Edited May 17, 2012 by gyselle