Health care increasingly out of reach for millions of Americans

[one...two...tree 2,762]

By RWN I assume you mean non-progressive. Nobody is using the word socialism loosely- you can take this up with 200+ years of philosophers and academics. I'm simply responding to a lib who thinks it can control the language, either intentionally or through ignorance. BTW.....I'm happy to see a prog that will openly embrace their socialist predilections....Kudos fancypants.

No, you're being smug by pretending that words don't have negative connotations associated with them. It's used as a pejorative by RWN's who, if they actually used that same measuring stick on themselves, would have to label themselves socialists. Try a little intellectual honesty. It's good for the soul.

[xebec 195]

No, you're being smug by pretending that words don't have negative connotations associated with them. It's used as a pejorative by RWN's who, if they actually used that same measuring stick on themselves, would have to label themselves socialists. Try a little intellectual honesty. It's good for the soul.

And you are being over-sensitive. The negative connotations come from somewhere fancypants…I wonder where? Perhaps the long track record of failed socialist policies? (Going back to at least the French Revolution, if we limit it to the modern period.) If you love socialism (in its many and varied guises), then don’t worry about how you think others view it. Besides, if socialism is understood as a pejorative, it would only be amongst fringe RWNs, right? Hardly a matter of real concern, I would think….

[one...two...tree 2,762]

And you are being over-sensitive. The negative connotations come from somewhere fancypants…I wonder where? Perhaps the long track record of failed socialist policies? (Going back to at least the French Revolution, if we limit it to the modern period.) If you love socialism (in its many and varied guises), then don't worry about how you think others view it. Besides, if socialism is understood as a pejorative, it would only be amongst fringe RWNs, right? Hardly a matter of real concern, I would think….

You're glazing over the issue, xena. Calling Obama's Health Care Act socialism is a fvcking lie and you know it. But lets assume that we have single payer in this country (like Medicare, but expanded to all), calling it socialism is a deliberate smear to try and get American voters to fear that some Socialist boogeyman is trying take over all private enterprise and turn into one big gubmint machine. You can dance around that all you want, but that's what this is all about. All I'm saying is that if you want to throw that term around then be honest and fair and admit you too are a flaming socialist who has enjoyed and benefited from many socialist programs in this country. Come on out of the closet, comrade.

[^_^ 5,021]

You're glazing over the issue, xena. Calling Obama's Health Care Act socialism is a fvcking lie and you know it. But lets assume that we have single payer in this country (like Medicare, but expanded to all), calling it socialism is a deliberate smear to try and get American voters to fear that some Socialist boogeyman is trying take over all private enterprise and turn into one big gubmint machine. You can dance around that all you want, but that's what this is all about. All I'm saying is that if you want to throw that term around then be honest and fair and admit you too are a flaming socialist who has enjoyed and benefited from many socialist programs in this country. Come on out of the closet, comrade.

The subsidies are socialist, are they not?

I have no problem with that... I support it. But it is socialist.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The subsidies are socialist, are they not?

I have no problem with that... I support it. But it is socialist.

So is checking out a book from the fvcking library. We're all socialists joined in one, big orgy fest of socialism.

[xebec 195]

You're glazing over the issue, xena. Calling Obama's Health Care Act socialism is a fvcking lie and you know it. But lets assume that we have single payer in this country (like Medicare, but expanded to all), calling it socialism is a deliberate smear to try and get American voters to fear that some Socialist boogeyman is trying take over all private enterprise and turn into one big gubmint machine. You can dance around that all you want, but that's what this is all about. All I'm saying is that if you want to throw that term around then be honest and fair and admit you too are a flaming socialist who has enjoyed and benefited from many socialist programs in this country. Come on out of the closet, comrade.

You see.....? That's what I'm talking about. You progs want to control the language (which you would not have to do if the "facts have a liberal bias" like james loves to crow so often), and if you can't, you have a little tantrum. You don't get to avoid the socialist label because you don't like your quixotic socialist ideas being "smeared" by the truth. You want it....live with the label. And as for socialist boogeymen.... even socialists who are willing to work within the framework of the market economy will, most often, tell you that this compromise is simply "transitional socialism." I wonder what that means?

Oh, and let me point out your obvious strawman- Where did I mention Obamacare? Point it out, or admit that you are trying, once again, to control the language rather that the substance. Typical prog.....

You can call people out of closet all you want, but it simply makes you sound ignorant. I was never in the closet. My instincts are paleo-libertarian. I have no need to admit to sharing, or to defend your effeminate love for collectivist government. That's your problem- You classify everyone as either a prog or a "RWN." Your simple-simon understanding of the American political landscape is a true handicap.

Edited May 11, 2012 by xebec

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Oooh, xebec is really taking a long time for his response.

[xebec 195]

Oooh, xebec is really taking a long time for his response.

Are you winding up a kitchen timer for me fancypants? I'm flattered.....

[one...two...tree 2,762]

You see.....? That's what I'm talking about. You progs want to control the language (which you would not have to do if the "facts have a liberal bias" like james loves to crow so often), and if you can't, you have a little tantrum. You don't get to avoid the socialist label because you don't like your quixotic socialist ideas being "smeared" by the truth. You want it....live with the label. And as for socialist boogeymen.... even socialists who are willing to work within the framework of the market economy will, most often, tell you that this compromise is simply "transitional socialism." I wonder what that means?

Oh, and let me point out your obvious strawman- Where did I mention Obamacare? Point it out, or admit that you are trying, once again, to control the language rather that the substance. Typical prog.....

You can call people out of closet all you want, but it simply makes you sound ignorant. I was never in the closet. My instincts are paleo-libertarian. I have no need to admit to sharing, or to defend your effeminate love for collectivist government. That's your problem- You classify everyone as either a prog or a "RWN." Your simple-simon understanding of the American political landscape is a true handicap.

lol....do you actually listen to what you spooge out as actual critical thought? Yes, lets go on pretending that when RWN's use the word, 'socialist', they're merely calling a spade a spade and not trying to evoke irrational fear of a communist takeover. Mmmkay.

So, I'll play along with your childish word play and call you a socialist. Now whether you choose to be openly socialist or a closet socialist, it's entirely up to you, but that doesn't change that you are by your own standards, a socialist. And so is everyone else. And if everyone is a socialist, then why would you or anyone else feel the need to point fingers? Sounds like some kind of psychosis.

[xebec 195]

lol....do you actually listen to what you spooge out as actual critical thought? Yes, lets go on pretending that when RWN's use the word, 'socialist', they're merely calling a spade a spade and not trying to evoke irrational fear of a communist takeover. Mmmkay.

So, I'll play along with your childish word play and call you a socialist. Now whether you choose to be openly socialist or a closet socialist, it's entirely up to you, but that doesn't change that you are by your own standards, a socialist. And so is everyone else. And if everyone is a socialist, then why would you or anyone else feel the need to point fingers? Sounds like some kind of psychosis.

That was really weak. Are you setting an example for me of what constitutes critical thought? Everyone is a socialist.....got it. Everyone who understands and recognizes socialist ideas and policies, and calls them what they are is a hypocrite. Got it. Everyone is a prog (socialist that is pissed off when their socialism is called socialism) or a RWN (closet socialist). Got it. Understanding the complexity of my own political system is a psychosis. Got it.

You are a complete and total clown.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That was really weak. Are you setting an example for me of what constitutes critical thought? Everyone is a socialist.....got it. Everyone who understands and recognizes socialist ideas and policies, and calls them what they are is a hypocrite. Got it. Everyone is a prog (socialist that is pissed off when their socialism is called socialism) or a RWN (closet socialist). Got it. Understanding the complexity of my own political system is a psychosis. Got it.

You are a complete and total clown.

Failing to recognize or being clueless about the nuances of language isn't being a clown. It's pathetic and typical of Right Wingers who can't think critically.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I tell you what, xebec. Here's how these discussions about socialism typically go:

I would say, there are some things that work better as public entities, like libraries, highways and sewage. There are some things that work better as private enterprise, like restaurants, retail stores and manufacturing.

You would respond by saying, "Yeah, you would LOVE all those socialist programs like a typical, gubmint-loving librul."

Me: "Oh, so you don't use libraries, highways or produce human waste?"

You: "Don't try to twist my words, you socialist lover you. You just love, love, love socialism."

Me: "Um, no. Did you even listen to what I said?"

You: "Typical, gubmint-loving librul trying to change the subject. It's socialism and you LOVE IT!"

Me: facepalm

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yes, lets go on pretending that when RWN's use the word, 'socialist', they're merely calling a spade a spade and not trying to evoke irrational fear of a communist takeover. Mmmkay.

They would never do such a thing. You think they want to infer something evil when slapping the label socialist or socialism on something they don't like? Where could you possibly have gotten that idea?

[james&olya 1,121]

Medicare and the VA system is an indication of what happens when the know-it-alls in D.C. get involved with health care and health insurance.

The VA has some of the best actual outcomes data in health care. Their return on the dollars spent is much better than private insurance.

Medicare consistently scores substantially higher in its satisfaction scores from its beneficiaries than private insurance.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The VA has some of the best actual outcomes data in health care. Their return on the dollars spent is much better than private insurance.

Medicare consistently scores substantially higher in its satisfaction scores from its beneficiaries than private insurance.

There you go again with pesky facts in P&R. Boring.