Children - K2 or K4

[PrivateName 0]

I have a question I was wondering if anyone with experience might shed light on.

I would like to petition my fiancee to come to the U.S. possibly on a K1, but may go marry her and apply K3/CR1. Her two children (8 and 12) are subject to visitation by their biological father who has seen them literally 3 times in the last 6 years. But, original court documents stated he gets them on every other week.

Does anyone one know what proof, evidence or documentation will be required in order to apply for the children? Any direction, advice or steps would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[Penguin_ie 5,997]

Which country is she from?

Is the dad on the birth cert?

Were they married?

Easiest would be if you can get the dad to sign a document stating he is allowing them to go; if he pays child support, offer to drop that if he signs. If this is not possible, you may need to get a court order but it does depend on the country.

[Darnell 8,479]

K1? -> K-2s

No K-3, or K-4, sorry.

marry? Chase after CR-1 for her and CR-2s for the children.

Good Luck !

[PrivateName 0]

Thanks for asking clarifying questions. She is from U.K., specifically, Scotland. He does pay child support, but that took a court order. Good advice to try to negotiate that. He also is paying for private school, so may be another motivating factor for him. The children despise him and refuse to go with him since he abandon them.

I was thinking that if I applied for K-1 it may be easier to bring them on K-2. Would anyone have any feedback if the CR1/CR2 would be easier since we would already be married, in getting the kids here? I would think that the scrutiny and investigation would be the same no matter what. Namely, if the biological father has rights they have to be taken into consideration.

Thank you!

Edited May 6, 2012 by PrivateName

[grrrrreat 109]

Thanks for asking clarifying questions. She is from U.K., specifically, Scotland. He does pay child support, but that took a court order. Good advice to try to negotiate that. He also is paying for private school, so may be another motivating factor for him. The children despise him and refuse to go with him since he abandon them.

I was thinking that if I applied for K-1 it may be easier to bring them on K-2. Would anyone have any feedback if the CR1/CR2 would be easier since we would already be married, in getting the kids here? I would think that the scrutiny and investigation would be the same no matter what. Namely, if the biological father has rights they have to be taken into consideration.

Thank you!

There's not much difference between CR-2 and K-2 for kids. The main one is that if you get married and file for CR-2, you have to file separate I-130 petitions for each child. Because K-2 is a derivative visa, it can be based off of the mom's I-130. That's why some people think that it is easier to gain a K-2, but you have to balance that against the fact that if they enter on K-2s, you have to adjust status for them after they enter. If they enter on CR-2s they get GCs right away.

If she wants them to move here, she is likely going to have to get permission from their father or from the court to move them here. Even if she has custody, most jurisdictions won't let you leave without permission, especially if the father has visitation rights. That is what USCIS will want to see to issue the visas for the kids.

Don't bother with K-3s or K-4s--they are obsolete.

Which country is she from?

Is the dad on the birth cert?

Were they married?

Easiest would be if you can get the dad to sign a document stating he is allowing them to go; if he pays child support, offer to drop that if he signs. If this is not possible, you may need to get a court order but it does depend on the country.

It sounds like paternity was adjudicated by the court already, so it doesn't matter if the father was initially on the birth certificate or not, or if they were married or not.

Edited May 6, 2012 by grrrrreat

[PrivateName 0]

There's not much difference between CR-2 and K-2 for kids. The main one is that if you get married and file for CR-2, you have to file separate I-130 petitions for each child. Because K-2 is a derivative visa, it can be based off of the mom's I-130. That's why some people think that it is easier to gain a K-2, but you have to balance that against the fact that if they enter on K-2s, you have to adjust status for them after they enter. If they enter on CR-2s they get GCs right away.

If she wants them to move here, she is likely going to have to get permission from their father or from the court to move them here. Even if she has custody, most jurisdictions won't let you leave without permission, especially if the father has visitation rights. That is what USCIS will want to see to issue the visas for the kids.

It sounds like paternity was adjudicated by the court already, so it doesn't matter if the father was initially on the birth certificate or not, or if they were married or not.

Yes, I didn't answer your questions from before. She was married to him and I do believe he is on their birth certificates. So, okay, I suppose that is something we should begin working on...bargaining.

Thanks again!

[Darnell 8,479]

Edited for correctness

There's not much difference between CR-2 and K-2 for kids. The main one is that if you get married and file for CR-2, you have to file separate I-130 petitions for each child. Because K-2 is a derivative visa, it can be based off of the mom's I-129F. That's why some people think that it is easier to gain a K-2, but you have to balance that against the fact that if they enter on K-2s, you have to adjust status for them after they enter. If they enter on CR-2s they get GCs right away.

If she wants them to move here, she is likely going to have to get permission from their father or from the court to move them here. Even if she has custody, most jurisdictions won't let you leave without permission, especially if the father has visitation rights. That is what USCIS will want to see to issue the visas for the kids.

Don't bother with K-3s or K-4s--they are obsolete.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Regardless of which Visa path you take the father will have to sign a form consenting to his children immigrating to the US before the US Embassy will issue them Visas.

He might be willing to sign the consent in return for her terminating his obligations of support and school expenses.

As for which Visa to use, the K-1/K-2 route will cost your thousands more as you'll have to AOS (Adjust Status) one all 3 of them whereas with the CR-1/CR-2 route they will be issued Greencards upon POE and CR route only costs a little bit more to get to POE after whcih there is no more filing with USCIS until 2 years later for Removal Of Conditions (which you'd have to do with K-1/K2 anyway).

[grrrrreat 109]

Edited for correctness

You're right, I-129F for K-1, my bad.

Regardless of which Visa path you take the father will have to sign a form consenting to his children immigrating to the US before the US Embassy will issue them Visas.

He might be willing to sign the consent in return for her terminating his obligations of support and school expenses.

As for which Visa to use, the K-1/K-2 route will cost your thousands more as you'll have to AOS (Adjust Status) one all 3 of them whereas with the CR-1/CR-2 route they will be issued Greencards upon POE and CR route only costs a little bit more to get to POE after whcih there is no more filing with USCIS until 2 years later for Removal Of Conditions (which you'd have to do with K-1/K2 anyway).

You can also sometimes get an order from the relevant family court allowing you to move out of the jurisdiction, if the father disagrees and you can persuade the court.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have a question I was wondering if anyone with experience might shed light on.

I would like to petition my fiancee to come to the U.S. possibly on a K1, but may go marry her and apply K3/CR1. Her two children (8 and 12) are subject to visitation by their biological father who has seen them literally 3 times in the last 6 years. But, original court documents stated he gets them on every other week.

Does anyone one know what proof, evidence or documentation will be required in order to apply for the children? Any direction, advice or steps would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Not enough info.

Best case...nothing. Worst case, a notarized letter granting permission for her to move the children permanently to the USA. Actually worst case would be he refuses to do that and you have to get a court order allowing it.

What country? Is the father listed on the birth certificate?

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

You can also sometimes get an order from the relevant family court allowing you to move out of the jurisdiction, if the father disagrees and you can persuade the court.

You're correct but getting the consent willingly is always best. Courts can be hesitant to issue rulings that basically have the potential to deprive a man of access to his children forever (as immigrating to another country can do) unless there are extremely compelling issues like abuse etc involved.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Thanks for asking clarifying questions. She is from U.K., specifically, Scotland. He does pay child support, but that took a court order. Good advice to try to negotiate that. He also is paying for private school, so may be another motivating factor for him. The children despise him and refuse to go with him since he abandon them.

I was thinking that if I applied for K-1 it may be easier to bring them on K-2. Would anyone have any feedback if the CR1/CR2 would be easier since we would already be married, in getting the kids here? I would think that the scrutiny and investigation would be the same no matter what. Namely, if the biological father has rights they have to be taken into consideration.

Thank you!

You need the letter of permission or a court order. Bribery in Scotland will be considerably more expensive than in Ukraine, however I presume child support is also more expensive not to mention private school. In our case the ex was WAY behind in child support and was offered the chance to be absolved of all said support, past, present and future for his signature on the permission letter. He jumped on it with both feet.

He had been AWOL for years and he still is, so it was no tangible loss to anyone that had not already occurred

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

You can also sometimes get an order from the relevant family court allowing you to move out of the jurisdiction, if the father disagrees and you can persuade the court.

This is more than just moving out of the court's jurisdiction. This is emigrating permanently out of the country. In order for a court in most first world countries to issue an order like this against the wishes of the father they would usually have to revoke his parental rights. Courts are usually very reluctant to do this. If they revoke his parental rights then they can no longer force him to do anything with regards to the children, including paying child support. Courts don't usually issue orders like this unless the father is a real piece of ####### and the court is strongly motivated to keep him away from the children forever.

A quit claim letter from the father would usually be a lot easier to obtain than a court order.