B2 visa denied-questions and advice on reapplying

[Dottielady 0]

I have previously posted on this forum explaining mine, and my husbands situation and asking for some advice, and, hopefully success stories regarding a B2 visa application. In short my husband and I both require a B2 visa as we both have criminal records. We are UK nationals but due to our misdemeanours we are not able to travel under the visa waiver programme. We attended the US embassy in London in October last year and we were both denied a visa. Verbally the consulate officer told us it was because our convictions were too recent, but she gave us a document stating we had been denied under section 214b (basically being unable to show strong enough ties to our home country). We went into the interview with just the basic paperwork, copy of police certificate, relevant forms and passports-I feel like we were probably under prepared. The convictions were in March 2009. My husbands conviction was for theft from employer, (he actually pleaded guilty in September 2008 but as our crimes were linked he had to wait to be sentenced until my trial was complete). My conviction was for handling stolen goods and I was found guilty in February 2009. We were both sentenced in March 2009, I was sentenced to a four month suspended sentence, suspended for two years and 100 hour community service. My husband was sentenced to an eight month prison sentence, of which he served 10 weeks. We want to visit Florida with our three young boys for our 10 year wedding anniversary, but I have some concerns before reapplying. To give you some background. My husband and I got married in Orlando in 2002, we visited Orlando in 2005, when we also visited Miami for a week. We went to New York in November 2007 for a few days before travelling to the Domincan Republic, and we also went through Florida to visit the Bahamas in 1999. My husband visited Florida several times with his family when he was younger and I too visited Orlando in 1994, 1996, and in 1998 we visited Orlando and San Diego. We have also travelled extensively in Europe visiting Portugal, Spain, France, Majorca, Tenerife and Gran Canaria. In addition to this my Mother now lives in Qatar and we have visited there twice in the last two years. I mention all this because I have done extensive reading and research on the internet and I'm led to believe that being able to show previous trips to America and other countries from which we've returned, and had no problems whilst there will help our case. Does anyone know if this is true? Although we only applied for our visa in October I am keen to go back and apply because we have always discussed visiting Florida on our 10 year anniversary and going back to where we got married, and our anniversary is in September. I don't, however, want to waste time and money (as it a very expensive process) if there is no hope of us being approved. I feel that if we take copies of our marriage certificate, a letter explaining our intentions, proof of my husbands work (he is a self employed industrial roofer) but he has been working on a sub contractor basis for the last 3 years for the same firm and has payslips and accounts to prove it), full details or our travel history to America and elsewhere, and also a letter from my mum who will be taking us all (and my two brothers, their girlfriends and my three step brothers and sisters) to confirm that she will be funding and accompanying us on the trip that we may stand a better chance of being approved. Of course, it still means that only three and a half years will have elapsed since the convictions, which may be the real problem. I'm wondering if anyone has any knowledge or insight into the above points. I'm desperate to take my three boys for a wonderful holiday and revisit where we got married, but I'm confused and anxious and would be a grateful if anyone has any information for us. Sorry to waffle on, but I want to make sure I am as thorough as possible. Thanks in advance for any insight and help.

[Boiler 46,125]

It looks like you have 2 options, apply or do not.

The only way of finding out if you will be approved is the former.

Did they give you any indication of what too soon meant, months or years. I sort of assume the latter.

[Noah Lot 391]

I think I mentioned in an earlier response that it is quite likely her husband is ineligible for having committed a crime involving moral turpitude..and if that is the case, there is no chance for him...and little for the OP...bottom line is this:

what justification could a VO offer if questioned as to why your credibility had been repaired after that incident? Trust, etc?

It does not matter who might pay for your trip, or with whom you might stay nor the reasons for wanting to go...what matters is...will a VO believe that you and hubby have been rehabilitated, so to speak...having violated some laws in your own country, why would a VO believe that you might not do the same? Or perhaps you and hubby are trying to escape further problems in your country (if they exist)...as Boiler said, if you don't apply you'll never know...but all the things you just posted will have zero positive effect on your case...and as I said before, it sounds like your husband is ineligible for a long long time.

[Boiler 46,125]

I am assuming a D 3 waiver would be required, it seemed that the CO did not feel comfortable in recommending one.

Hence the comment about not enough time. And took the simple way out with the standard refusal.

[Noah Lot 391]

I am assuming a D 3 waiver would be required, it seemed that the CO did not feel comfortable in recommending one.

Hence the comment about not enough time. And took the simple way out with the standard refusal.

First, the OP (and spouse) have to overcome 214b....which is the catchall code, one that requires that a VO have total confidence in the bona fides of an applicant....and those with a criminal history will have a very difficult time overcoming that...which they must do before any waiver can be considered (for the crime involving moral turpitude, if it applies to husband)...there is NO waiver for 214b...

[Dottielady 0]

Hi. Thanks for your replies, as always. I am a little confused though. Firstly my husband and I have both committed a crime involving moral turpitude. In fact my understanding is that that is the whole reason that the visa is required and we are having to go through the process. I say that because the forms you would be required to complete on the plane (if you were travelling under the waiver programme) ask the question "have you ever committed or been convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude? (I'm paraphrasing, but that is basically what it says), so I take from that that crimes involving moral turpitude are the ones that interest and alarm the border control, homeland security and embassy staff. If we had committed a crime that wasn't covered under the title of moral turpitude I don't think there would be an issue with us travelling?? I also say that because all of my extensive reading has allowed me to read the guidelines issued to VOs when assessing an applicant, and also what criteria is and isn't important when applying for a visa. Basically, as I understand it VOs are asked to investigate CIMT and are obviously very strict in issuing visas with that in mind, but will usually issue a non immigrant visa to those who declare another crime or conviction which isnt counted as a CIMT. What I am saying is that I understand we have come up against a denial because it is a CIMT which are really the only crimes the VOs are interested in? I've also looked into the DS-160 form to enable us to secure a waiver, and it states that people who have a crimial record can be issued a waiver, although I understand that the conviction needs to have happened more than 15 years ago to make you eligible, which, I'm presuming is why the VO did not recommend we apply. I am still considering looking into further advice about the waiver, but I think the visa is the way forward at this time. I'm also not sure about the 214b. To be clear is this a 'blanket' reason? Is this, in fact, not relevant to us because we are UK citizens? (I have also read that the reason certain countries nationals (including UK) are allowed to enter the US under the visa waiver is because the US does not really offer opportunities, amenities, a way of life etc that we, as UK citizens, could not find in our own country. If this true does this therefore mean that the 214b is null and void as far as our application is concerned, and, if that is the case, how can we show the VO that the crime committed was a complete one off, a naive, stupid massive mistake? Surely there is a way around it? I can't believe someone who has made one mistake, continues to work full time, as he has always done, raises a family of three young boys, is starting her own business, (having qualified as a nail technician), has travelled to America and elsewhere extensively, got married in Florida and just wants to revisit a special time and take their family on a dream holiday will never be given that opportunity?? I don't feel like I can give up all hope. ?thanks again for your insight.

[Boiler 46,125]

I tried to read your reply, you seem confused.

The Consulate have the discretion to issue you a Visa, and in this case also recommend a waiver.

They chose not to exercise it.

Forget the VWP, due to your criminal past you are no longer eligible for it.

[jaycali 415]

As boiler said, your denial is due to the crimes being so recent. Especially considering how recently your sentences were served.

For the crimes/sentences you described uou won't be denied entry forever. But CIMTs are considered serious enough that they pretty much make you ineligible for the VWP for life, and any non-immigrant visa often for years.

You're right, citizens of the UK and other countries in the VWP are eligible for visa-free travel because their visa violation rates and fraud rates are very low, societies stable and because their GDP/HDI are similar to that of the US.

If this trip is important to you, i would probably try again. The chance of approval is zero if you don't try. No one here can guarantee anything, but bring with you any and all documentation you can, including affidavits from anyone who can vouch for your «rehabilitation from crime» and hope for the best.

Edited May 4, 2012 by jaejayC

[Noah Lot 391]

Hi. Thanks for your replies, as always. I am a little confused though. Firstly my husband and I have both committed a crime involving moral turpitude. In fact my understanding is that that is the whole reason that the visa is required and we are having to go through the process. I say that because the forms you would be required to complete on the plane (if you were travelling under the waiver programme) ask the question "have you ever committed or been convicted of a crime involving moral turpitude? (I'm paraphrasing, but that is basically what it says), so I take from that that crimes involving moral turpitude are the ones that interest and alarm the border control, homeland security and embassy staff. If we had committed a crime that wasn't covered under the title of moral turpitude I don't think there would be an issue with us travelling?? I also say that because all of my extensive reading has allowed me to read the guidelines issued to VOs when assessing an applicant, and also what criteria is and isn't important when applying for a visa. Basically, as I understand it VOs are asked to investigate CIMT and are obviously very strict in issuing visas with that in mind, but will usually issue a non immigrant visa to those who declare another crime or conviction which isnt counted as a CIMT. What I am saying is that I understand we have come up against a denial because it is a CIMT which are really the only crimes the VOs are interested in? I've also looked into the DS-160 form to enable us to secure a waiver, and it states that people who have a crimial record can be issued a waiver, although I understand that the conviction needs to have happened more than 15 years ago to make you eligible, which, I'm presuming is why the VO did not recommend we apply. I am still considering looking into further advice about the waiver, but I think the visa is the way forward at this time. I'm also not sure about the 214b. To be clear is this a 'blanket' reason? Is this, in fact, not relevant to us because we are UK citizens? (I have also read that the reason certain countries nationals (including UK) are allowed to enter the US under the visa waiver is because the US does not really offer opportunities, amenities, a way of life etc that we, as UK citizens, could not find in our own country. If this true does this therefore mean that the 214b is null and void as far as our application is concerned, and, if that is the case, how can we show the VO that the crime committed was a complete one off, a naive, stupid massive mistake? Surely there is a way around it? I can't believe someone who has made one mistake, continues to work full time, as he has always done, raises a family of three young boys, is starting her own business, (having qualified as a nail technician), has travelled to America and elsewhere extensively, got married in Florida and just wants to revisit a special time and take their family on a dream holiday will never be given that opportunity?? I don't feel like I can give up all hope. ?thanks again for your insight.

Until a VO has total trust and confidence in you (and in your husband), there will be NO tourist visas in your future....again, the reasons for going DO NOT MATTER and will not (statistically) soften the heart of any VO..because at the end of the day, they will have to answer to their boss (consul general) and they will need a very good excuse for having approved you (and for having recommended a waiver)...

[sellers 0]

Dottie

forget trying to get a visa and take kids to Disneyworld in hong kong or Tokyo. My husband has 5 convictions for petty shoplifting between 1988 and 1998. For these he was fined each time £20. In 2007 He applied for a tourist visa so we could attend our sons wedding in Houston. It was refused as it will always be and this is automatic. What you hope is that the officer will support your application for a waiver of inadmissabilty. This costs a further $600 each and takes 22 weeks. My husband was told he should not reapply for a visa as the officer would not support his application for a waiver.Therefore he could not attend our sons wedding and hasnt seen him since he left the Uk in 2008.

[Boiler 46,125]

His son can not travel?