Very interesting article from a true activist

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I never used the word "attacks." I used the word "criticism." They are two very different things.

Here are some of what I was talking about.

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2012/al-monitor/in-response-to-mona-eltahawys-ha.html

http://www.religionnews.com/blogs/omid-safi/the-hypocrisy-of-the-why-they-hate-us-rhetoric-of-muslim-native-informants

http://theangryegyptian.wordpress.com/2012/04/25/mona-hate-us/

You used it right here:

It's terribly disappointing that the criticism attacks Mona without meaningful debate about the issues she addresses.

I'm asking if you can quote the specific passages that you believe "attack" Mona.

[Ihavequestions 419]

You used it right here:

I'm asking if you can quote the specific passages that you believe "attack" Mona.

Well, #######. I feel pretty stupid.

Here's one.

From: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2012/al-monitor/in-response-to-mona-eltahawys-ha.html

"she’s a liberal"

It's the labeling that chaps my a$$.

I read one, and I'm not going to dig it up now, that criticized the language it was published in. Really.

[msheesha 548]

I don't think Mona herself minds the liberal labelling, as this is copied directly from her website...

She calls herself a proud liberal Muslim.

I also read the question about the article being published in English. I think it was a legitimate one, asking why not have it published in Arabic, so that the subjects of the article can engage in a discourse about it.

[sandinista! 1,816]

To be fair on that point, most Arab press in the Arab world would not publish it in Arabic I bet. That's a problem. But even if it were published there, in Arabic, that doesn't relieve the major, major problems with this screed. And I hope to God she had nothing to do with the simply awful accompanying imagery. It's downright insulting.

[msheesha 548]

To be fair on that point, most Arab press in the Arab world would not publish it in Arabic I bet. That's a problem. But even if it were published there, in Arabic, that doesn't relieve the major, major problems with this screed. And I hope to God she had nothing to do with the simply awful accompanying imagery. It's downright insulting.

Fair enough, but I don't think to bring that up as a question isn't an overly critical attack on the author, as it was implied here on vj.

She's not responded to the questions/comments, that I've seen, about whether or not she had input or control over the accompanying photos.

[NY_BX 397]

I find the liberal label a compliment, not an attack. That is, if you take aside the political fanatism and think of liberal as the latin word: not bound to authoritaniarism, orthodox or traditional forms= to be free. So, to be a free thinker is an honor....

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Well, #######. I feel pretty stupid.

Here's one.

From: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2012/al-monitor/in-response-to-mona-eltahawys-ha.html

"she’s a liberal"

It's the labeling that chaps my a$$.

I read one, and I'm not going to dig it up now, that criticized the language it was published in. Really.

It's no insult to Mona to call her a liberal - from the bio on her own site:

Mona was born on Aug. 1, 1967 in Port Said, Egypt and has lived in the U.K, Saudi Arabia and Israel. She calls herself a proud liberal Muslim. In 2005, she was named a Muslim Leader of Tomorrow by the American Society for Muslim Advancement and she is a member of the Communications Advisory Group for Musawah, the global movement for justice and equality in the Muslim family.

http://www.monaeltahawy.com/

I agree that criticizing the language the article was published in would be a "fail" critique.

Edited May 3, 2012 by wife_of_mahmoud

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I find the liberal label a compliment, not an attack. That is, if you take aside the political fanatism and think of liberal as the latin word: not bound to authoritaniarism, orthodox or traditional forms= to be free. So, to be a free thinker is an honor....

Most people don't even understand what "liberal" or "conservative" actually mean in the political sense...

[Ihavequestions 419]

Here's Mona talking about it.

http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/womens-rights-middle-east-0022198

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Here's Mona talking about it.

http://stream.aljazeera.com/story/womens-rights-middle-east-0022198

I am listening to it now... about halfway through... she not really answering a lot of the questions she's getting.

Edited to add -

Nesrine Malik is PWNing Mona. (In a good way)

Edited May 3, 2012 by wife_of_mahmoud

[Ihavequestions 419]

Most people don't even understand what "liberal" or "conservative" actually mean in the political sense...

This is true.

In this case, the term, or label, was used as a tool to take a swipe at an author (and activist). If Mona self-identifies as a liberal, that's cool. However, if the best retort a critic can find is to call her a liberal, it's merely an attempt to minimize or even dismiss her arguments as if the source should be ignored because of her political or personal position, which is nonsensical and fallacious.

OP, thank you for starting this topic; you're entitled to your opinions and don't feel like you can't initiate discussion about them.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

This is true.

In this case, the term, or label, was used as a tool to take a swipe at an author (and activist). If Mona self-identifies as a liberal, that's cool. However, if the best retort a critic can find is to call her a liberal, it's merely an attempt to minimize or even dismiss her arguments as if the source should be ignored because of her political or personal position, which is nonsensical and fallacious.

OP, thank you for starting this topic; you're entitled to your opinions and don't feel like you can't initiate discussion about them.

From what I have observed, the OP does a fine job of expressing her opinions and initiating discussions - she's got a great one going in this thread. She certainly does not seem to be a shrinking violet who only dares to speak her mind within a protected bubble of nodding assent. I don't know where you got the notion that she's somehow being suppressed or stifled or shut down in any way - I think she can and does speak for herself quite capably.

As for the "label" of "liberal" - again, it's one that the author/activist chooses to describe herself. It's really a stretch to try to paint this as some kind of insult to Mona.

It was also never used as a "best retort" in any of the criticisms I posted about Mona's article - it was used to describe her political position. You are completing ignoring the major points of contention that every critique made about her article - including

1.) the title, which insinuated that Mona speaks for all MENA women; and

2.) her reduction of a complex issue such as the status of women's rights in MENA and the struggle for those rights as a simply a matter of MENA male vs. female misogyny.

[Ihavequestions 419]

From what I have observed, the OP does a fine job of expressing her opinions and initiating discussions - she's got a great one going in this thread. She certainly does not seem to be a shrinking violet who only dares to speak her mind within a protected bubble of nodding assent. I don't know where you got the notion that she's somehow being suppressed or stifled or shut down in any way - I think she can and does speak for herself quite capably.

What's your problem?

The OP herself said, "I rarely- if ever- have shared any political/ activist news or articles with you." Is there something wrong with encouraging that, or are you just looking for something to argue about?

Really?

As for the "label" of "liberal" - again, it's one that the author/activist chooses to describe herself. It's really a stretch to try to paint this as some kind of insult to Mona.

I didn't say it. You, because you're hell-bent on snipping, asked for proof of criticism of her character instead of content. I gave it to you - in spades. If you have a beef with that, which you obviously do, go back to the original retorts and have a go at them.

It was also never used as a "best retort" in any of the criticisms I posted about Mona's article - it was used to describe her political position. You are completing ignoring the major points of contention that every critique made about her article - including

1.) the title, which insinuated that Mona speaks for all MENA women; and

2.) her reduction of a complex issue such as the status of women's rights in MENA and the struggle for those rights as a simply a matter of MENA male vs. female misogyny.

I didn't ignore anything. I simply never stated an opinion about either of the points you've noted.

So, perhaps as the resident expert or something, you can can do that for us.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

What's your problem?

The OP herself said, "I rarely- if ever- have shared any political/ activist news or articles with you." Is there something wrong with encouraging that, or are you just looking for something to argue about?

Really?

Um... huh ?

I didn't say it. You, because you're hell-bent on snipping, asked for proof of criticism of her character instead of content. I gave it to you - in spades. If you have a beef with that, which you obviously do, go back to the original retorts and have a go at them.

Calling her a "liberal" (the same term she "proudly" calls herself) is "proof of criticism of her character"... "in spades" ?

No, it isn't.

What retorts are you talking about, please ? I read every single article I posted, and I watched the 50-minute video with Mona that you posted. I don't see anything insulting Mona personally - the articles I posted and the guests on the show you posted speak of her very respectfully. That doesn't mean they have to agree with her, or stay silent about their disagreements.

I didn't ignore anything. I simply never stated an opinion about either of the points you've noted.

So, perhaps as the resident expert or something, you can can do that for us.

"Resident expert or something." That could be my new member title !

Seriously, I really don't know what has upset you so much in this thread. Nobody has insulted you, or the OP, or Mona. But have at it, if you wish.

[catknit 144]

2.) her reduction of a complex issue such as the status of women's rights in MENA and the struggle for those rights as a simply a matter of MENA male vs. female misogyny.

I think this point is so very important and unfortunately what makes a lot of articles/sound bites/journalistic stories so difficult. My personal opinion is that having long-form articles or segments on the news more than 1 minute in length almost never exist, never mind the advent of twitter, etc having made discernment of what is going on in the world, regardless of topic, nearly impossible. To be well informed, you need to really and truly put in the time, read numerous sources, maybe try to find talks/lecture series on those topics [with as many views as possible]. Some people do it, some people don't.

So, in the case, here is a complex topic. A super complex topic. Mona has her leanings [self described liberal], her own personal experiences in Tahrir square, she's mad, and told she has X number of words or lines available to her. The resulting piece garners critiques [and in this topic who wouldn't be critical of any argument - someone who came along and said everything is sunshine and roses for women in MENA would be shot down in an instant too].

But, here's my main point, to get a flavor or feel of the whole picture one should be reading all the critiques, listening to the responses [like the interview posted here] and see what else is being said about the issue. And that can be so difficult depending on your lifestyle [screaming babies and screaming bosses come to mind]. Plus, from the journalistic stand point, boiling complex issues down into a easy-to-digest sound bite is currently the goal of a lot of media out there. Therefore, super complex topics can become so polarized that the topic itself seems to get ignored. I personally felt some of the response pieces fell into that camp - people took umbrage being classified in Mona's "us". Ok. That's understandable. But, what about some of the other faces of this extraordinarily complex issue?