Happy May Day, Comrades!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I did not say that you have to be rich, I did not say you have to be the best. You just have to be willing to work for what you get. You just have to have the desire to make your self better and America will give you the opportunity to do that.

My US ctizen wife is an immigrant. I signed an I-864 for her and she started her own successful business. I am thinking you need to post this stuff on the "illegal immigration" site, wherever that is.

My family is a benefit to the community and country.

[Brian121957 43]

My US ctizen wife is an immigrant. I signed an I-864 for her and she started her own successful business. I am thinking you need to post this stuff on the "illegal immigration" site, wherever that is.

My family is a benefit to the community and country.

As we are in a major election year I think it is relevant to have immigrants and potential new votes think about what responsibilities they will have. They have found the love of their life and the two of them have decided to make America their home in stead of the native country. They should think what is it about the United States that made them want to live here. Was it the government handouts or the freedoms.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

As we are in a major election year I think it is relevant to have immigrants and potential new votes think about what responsibilities they will have. They have found the love of their life and the two of them have decided to make America their home in stead of the native country. They should think what is it about the United States that made them want to live here. Was it the government handouts or the freedoms.

Since our recent citizen spouses were not eligible for handouts (until now, that they are citizens) I am guessing most are not here for the goodies they could get from the government.

I am sure they will vote according to their beliefs just as native born Americans do and they will not all agree with me or you. Shocking, I know. I think it is important they all have the choice to make their own decisions. That's freedom and if it means my wife believes in universal government health care because it worked well for her in the Soviet Union, then she will probably continue with that belief.

You also seem to think it is here OR there, this OR that, it is not that way. You know that many are dual citizens right? You know that many have homes in both countries, right? We do. You know that one of the HUGE benefits of being a US citizen is that you can live anywhere else in the world for as long as you want, and come back anytime. Right? That is part of the FREEDOM and the country is not insecure in its appeal to its citizens. Alla could spend the rest of her life in Ukraine, vote in US elections by absentee ballot and come back only to be buried here...if she chooses. Even if she were buried in Ukraine she would STILL be a US citizen.

[Brian121957 43]

Since our recent citizen spouses were not eligible for handouts (until now, that they are citizens) I am guessing most are not here for the goodies they could get from the government.

I am sure they will vote according to their beliefs just as native born Americans do and they will not all agree with me or you. Shocking, I know. I think it is important they all have the choice to make their own decisions. That's freedom and if it means my wife believes in universal government health care because it worked well for her in the Soviet Union, then she will probably continue with that belief.

You also seem to think it is here OR there, this OR that, it is not that way. You know that many are dual citizens right? You know that many have homes in both countries, right? We do. You know that one of the HUGE benefits of being a US citizen is that you can live anywhere else in the world for as long as you want, and come back anytime. Right? That is part of the FREEDOM and the country is not insecure in its appeal to its citizens. Alla could spend the rest of her life in Ukraine, vote in US elections by absentee ballot and come back only to be buried here...if she chooses. Even if she were buried in Ukraine she would STILL be a US citizen.

I think we are closer in agreement then apart. It is to bad that Obama, Pelosi and Reed were so determined to push government health care that they did not consider the constitutional ramifications of how they were doing it. If they had been open for true debate I am sure it would not be in the Supreme court now.

The government has the power to tax. All they had to do was raise taxes and pay for it instead of mandating that we buy it.

[james&olya 1,121]

I think we are closer in agreement then apart. It is to bad that Obama, Pelosi and Reed were so determined to push government health care that they did not consider the constitutional ramifications of how they were doing it. If they had been open for true debate I am sure it would not be in the Supreme court now.

The government has the power to tax. All they had to do was raise taxes and pay for it instead of mandating that we buy it.

'Medicare for all'!!

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think we are closer in agreement then apart.

Probably yes. I do not believe loving my country means I have to run down any others. I also believe very few people come here for government handouts, government handouts are far better in other countries than here. We are pretty miserly actually, but we DO have the most overweight poor people in the world. WE WIN!

I will gladly trade Mexico one OWS protestor fro every man then send us that will WORK

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

'Medicare for all'!!

Two things I may begrudgingly come to accept are term limits and some form of single payer health care.

I was always against term limits, figuring WE are supposed to limit the terms of ne'er do-wells in congress but the system seems rigged. It is pretty bad when our congress has a lower turnover rate than the Supreme Soviet. The system that has developed of perpetual elections and perpetual campaigning just is not healthy. The government begins to exist for the government. In Tom Clancy's book, "Debt of Honor" a terrorist at the end of the book crashes a jumbo jet into a joint session of congress and kills ALL the Senators and Representatives at once. We could do the same with term limits.

Just saying "Look, any of you in there now are going to go...bye" would probably help tremendously. I would hate for our state to lose Pat Leahy, but the reason is because he has gained power out of proportion to what he represents by being there for so long. We would probably be just as well off if all the states were equally represented in the Senate...really equally represented.

And if there is going to be government healthcare, and I believe there is GOING TO BE government healthcare, eventually, then single payer is the way to go without question. Any other consideration is really just daft. If "we" are going to have to pay for all of it why would we create a series of middlemen to simply raise costs? The argument that "insurance companies make a very small profit" is stupid! It ignores the costs and expenses that must be paid BEFORE there is a profit. I don't want to pay for THAT either! Obama care was a bad idea from the get go. Kool Aid drinkers do not agree because they are Kool Aid drinkers. It was nothing but a method to throw the insurance companies a bone and have "both" universal health care and private insurance. Doesn't work. This is not bridge constuction.

We cannot have a country where housing costs eat 1/3 of a family's budget, healthcare eats another 1/3 and what's left barely covers daycare and food for a family with children. It will not work, there is not enough left for discretionary spending that keeps the rest of us employed.

[Brian121957 43]

I think you could argue that food is more critical to life then health care. Any idea what food would cost if we bought food the way we have been buying health care.

We could pay an anual or monthly fee. Lets call it a food guarentee fee. Or food insurance.

We could pay a small fee every time we have a meal. Lets call it a Food Copay. Maybe 25 cents.

It would not mater where we ate. It would not mater what we ate. The co-pay fee would be the same. We would have no incentative to shop for a better price. And resturants would have no incentative to attact customers with lower prices.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think you could argue that food is more critical to life then health care. Any idea what food would cost if we bought food the way we have been buying health care.

We could pay an anual or monthly fee. Lets call it a food guarentee fee. Or food insurance.

We could pay a small fee every time we have a meal. Lets call it a Food Copay. Maybe 25 cents.

It would not mater where we ate. It would not mater what we ate. The co-pay fee would be the same. We would have no incentative to shop for a better price. And resturants would have no incentative to attact customers with lower prices.

So what do you do when you have a heart attack and need quad bypass surgery and 10 days in the hospital that costs $265,000?

Food is not the same. You do not suddenly, and without warning, need a quarter million dollars in food. Today.

And I am not suggesting so called "free" medical care. I am suggesting a system of ONE payer that everyone pays into (premiums) and that pays all bills. A system that offers coverage to everyone, and yes, subsidized for low income people (we already have that, no change there) Simply expand the existing programs to cover everyone and collect premiums for it just as we do now

[Brian121957 43]

So what do you do when you have a heart attack and need quad bypass surgery and 10 days in the hospital that costs $265,000?

Food is not the same. You do not suddenly, and without warning, need a quarter million dollars in food. Today.

And I am not suggesting so called "free" medical care. I am suggesting a system of ONE payer that everyone pays into (premiums) and that pays all bills. A system that offers coverage to everyone, and yes, subsidized for low income people (we already have that, no change there) Simply expand the existing programs to cover everyone and collect premiums for it just as we do now

The high cost is partly due to the very lack of the consumer not being involved in the cost decisions. Another major factor is the legal system where doctors have to practice “preventative medicine”. Their cost of malpractice insurance is unreal and their fear of being sued makes then many times perform un-needed tests.

But for the really serious emergency illness, it’s called catastrophic or major medical health insurance. It has a high deductable. It can be $1000 or more per occurrence. You couple that with a health savings account to deal with the “minor” emergencies. This gives the consumer an incentive to find the level of service that is appropriate to his needs and gives the providers incentive to provide true cost effective options to the consumer.

I find it interesting the different medical treatments from around the world that seem to work well and are cost effective. But doctors here would never consider them because they are not "approved" or "main stream". If something went wrong they would face lawsuits that would ruin them.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The high cost is partly due to the very lack of the consumer not being involved in the cost decisions.

Can we just dispose of the fallacy that we are all consumers in a health care market just like we are consumers in, say, the food market? When I need to purchase groceries, I usually have the opportunity to make decisions on what food to buy, where to buy it, etc. I can inform myself on the nutritional value of various items offered, perhaps even negotiate with the retailers (price matches, etc.) or circumvent the retailers altogether and go more directly to the producers - the farmers market, the local farm, etc. I usually shop for groceries on my own and without any assistance on the products that I want to buy.

When I "consume" health care services, I depend more heavily on professionals and their expertise. In emergencies, I don't really have the luxury to make any choice at all. I certainly don't have the luxury to negotiate the cost of the treatment on my way to the OR where life saving services are to be rendered. And whatever choice I may make in non-emergency situations is heavily based on professional input of the service provider rather than my own knowledge - I am not a medical professional.

I can do without steaks and lobsters if I'm on a budget. No harm. But if I'd have to go without the bypass surgery following a heart attack, there would be harm. Health care is a different market. Pretending otherwise is what lead to the crappy and expensive system we have today.

[Dakine10 5,452]

And I am not suggesting so called "free" medical care. I am suggesting a system of ONE payer that everyone pays into (premiums) and that pays all bills. A system that offers coverage to everyone, and yes, subsidized for low income people (we already have that, no change there) Simply expand the existing programs to cover everyone and collect premiums for it just as we do now

You just suggested the Canada health act. I thought you didn't like the Canadian health care system.

[unlockingsky 94]

..............I also believe very few people come here for government handouts, government handouts are far better in other countries than here. We are pretty miserly actually, but we DO have the most overweight poor people in the world. WE WIN!

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And I am not suggesting so called "free" medical care. I am suggesting a system of ONE payer that everyone pays into (premiums) and that pays all bills. A system that offers coverage to everyone, and yes, subsidized for low income people (we already have that, no change there) Simply expand the existing programs to cover everyone and collect premiums for it just as we do now

i remember walmart was paying low wages so their workers can get free government medicaid. i can imagine that wall street would pay workers at minimum wage and give out fat nontaxable bonuses at the end, would just enroll in free medicaid.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

i remember walmart was paying low wages so their workers can get free government medicaid...

I love urban legends, don't you? Retail is retail, whether it is Walmart, or the Mom & Pop market down the street. It doesn't pay that much.

If you are full-time, Walmart has a competitive benefits package consistent with most large companies. If you work part-time, it still doesn't suck as bad as working at any restaurant, or local small retail business.

[Brian121957 43]

Can we just dispose of the fallacy that we are all consumers in a health care market just like we are consumers in, say, the food market? When I need to purchase groceries, I usually have the opportunity to make decisions on what food to buy, where to buy it, etc. I can inform myself on the nutritional value of various items offered, perhaps even negotiate with the retailers (price matches, etc.) or circumvent the retailers altogether and go more directly to the producers - the farmers market, the local farm, etc. I usually shop for groceries on my own and without any assistance on the products that I want to buy.

Don't confuse emergencies with failing to plan.

I see posts all the time about how to find a lower priced CS to get the medical exam form completed. Isn’t that shopping around for a lower price? How about your annual physical?

When I go out to eat, I may not know the exact price of the burger. But I do know that I can get a burger for less at McDonalds then I can at Applebee’s or TGIF. I know the grocery store sells Ground beef for less than Steak. How do I know? I pay attention and look at prices in advance. Do I always eat at McDonalds, No. Do I ever eat at Applebee’s, Yes. When I think the situation warrants Applebee’s I will go there. But I understand and consider that the cost will be higher.