HUGE: Wind Farms Cause Global Warming.

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

So cities do not affect global warming? American cities have no affect?

Sousuke, your first attempt at an answer was a flippant one-liner as if to blow off anyone that disagreed as an idiot. Yet when pressed to say more you stumble and cannot provide an answer and say it is the "best of my ability" Really? Should you even be answering at all? Should you be maing a judgement?

There actually IS an answer to the article. It is very simple and basic. One of the most basic of principals.

then provide that answer rather than constantly moving the lily pads around for members to jump to while making unfounded accusations about the same members.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Please stop with the personal attacks.

I never said cities do not cause global warming. I said the urban heat island effect does not. My first post mentioned such an effect. You asked me about that effect. I explained. I've been nice, you have not sir.

I HAVE answered your question about the urban heat island effect and look what I get...accusations. You do this in similar threads and then as I continue to explain you just disappear...to attack me another day I suppose.

Need I say more? There is a very simple way (fundamentally simple, but that is the only clue I am giving) to bust out this article as completely BOGUS but since that does not fit my personal agenda, I am not going to. It is almost funny though that people who claim to base their thoughts in science don't see it immediately. I will allow the people who believe in leprechauns and global warming to attempt to explain it.

At any rate, none of this could possibly affect global warming even if it were real. The article is effective in making the "chicken littles" sputter, though.

[MyLittlePony 340]

My farts cause global warming.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

then provide that answer rather than constantly moving the lily pads around for members to jump to while making unfounded accusations about the same members.

Not to my benefit and I do not need to, Charles. Unless it has somehow become a TOS rule that moderators can order members to give answers in P&R, I choose to decline.

The other members learned the answer in 3rd grade.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There is a very simple way (fundamentally simple, but that is the only clue I am giving) to bust out this article as completely BOGUS but since that does not fit my personal agenda, I am not going to.

Problem is, there's nothing bogus about the article. Paul just doesn't understand what he posts so he posts under a thread title that has nothing to do with what the article he posts actually discusses. That's just Paul being Paul. The answer that explains the local surface temperature rise is right in the article he posted. Only takes one freeze warning in winter here in SW Florida to understand what this means. When the strawberry farmers hear freeze warning, the helicopters go up in the early morning hours to push the warmer air down towards the ground to save the crop. Quite simple, really. It just doesn't do what you say it would - debunk the article. What it does do is show that Paul posts stuff he either fails to read or to understand or both. And frankly, you seem to make arguments off the thread title rather than the actual article that was posted.

“This makes sense, since at night the ground becomes much cooler than the air just a few hundred meters above the surface, and the wind farms generate gentle turbulence near the ground that causes these to mix together, thus the ground doesn’t get quite as cool. This same strategy is commonly used by fruit growers, who fly helicopters over the orchards rather than windmills, to combat early morning frosts.”

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Ah, the power of Faux News on its sheeple...

Wind farms DO NOT cause climate change

A study that just came out in Nature Climate Change found that wind farms can impact local temperatures, particularly at night. Basically, the turbines mix warmer air from high up with colder air closer the ground. Hence, warmer air overall, in these very local spots.

So, of course, Fox News is telling people that "New research shows wind farms cause global warming." Not to be out-crazied, the Telegraph is going with "Wind farms can cause climate change." Gizmodo at least uses the word "local" in its headline. But unfortunately such restraint hasn't stopped the internet from deciding, as this apparently very patriotic gentleman on Twitter demonstrates, that "Wind farms = worse for local climate change than 100 years of pollution (0.6 degree F)."

Which, FINE, the scientists report that the temperature changes they've documented, "if spatially large enough, may have noticeable impacts on local to regional weather and climate." That impact, however, is different than what we normally mean by climate change. We're talking about the increase of global average temperatures, which — funny how averages work — is a much bigger deal than local temperature increases.

The study's lead author did explain this to the Guardian:

"Overall, the warming effect reported in our study is local and is small compared to the strong year-to-year changes" that result from natural variation, said Zhou.

Also, this study does not mean that we should stop building new wind farms, the author said. So, to review, building massive energy-generating wind turbines has a local environmental impact. It's probably important to find out more about that. But we also need to stop global climate change. Which wind turbines do not create. Savvy? Ah, it's going to be a long week.

http://grist.org/lis...climate-change/

Edited May 1, 2012 by Mister Fancypants

[Ban Hammer 13,343]

Not to my benefit and I do not need to, Charles. Unless it has somehow become a TOS rule that moderators can order members to give answers in P&R, I choose to decline.

The other members learned the answer in 3rd grade.

your posts fall under the following:

-Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Forums.

-Make comments in a Post either direct or implied toward another member that are purposely designed to upset, antagonize, make fun of, belittle, harass, insult, or otherwise instigate an argument that takes away from the personal enjoyment of the Service by other users.

continue along this path at your own peril.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Problem is, there's nothing bogus about the article. Paul just doesn't understand what he posts so he posts under a thread title that has nothing to do with what the article he posts actually discusses. That's just Paul being Paul. The answer that explains the local surface temperature rise is right in the article he posted. Only takes one freeze warning in winter here in SW Florida to understand what this means. When the strawberry farmers hear freeze warning, the helicopters go up in the early morning hours to push the warmer air down towards the ground to save the crop. Quite simple, really. It just doesn't do what you say it would - debunk the article. What it does do is show that Paul posts stuff he either fails to read or to understand or both. And frankly, you seem to make arguments off the thread title rather than the actual article that was posted.

The article can be debunked in terms of the wind turbines affecting global warming most easily. It is not "bogus" that they generate heat, it IS bogus that they contribute to global warming and NOT because it is "localized". The claim of the article is that the wind turbines contribute to global warming. I made NO argument about the title OR the article. I am frequently accused of doing things I do not do, I accept that as a defense mechanism of people that lack knowledge.

My argument was with the flippant remark that "it is localized, need I say more" which the unicorn believers quickly +1'd even though it is nowhere near correct as being the reason it does not affect global warming. If one is going to respond as though people who disagree are stupid, one should at least be correct.

your posts fall under the following:

-Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Forums.

-Make comments in a Post either direct or implied toward another member that are purposely designed to upset, antagonize, make fun of, belittle, harass, insult, or otherwise instigate an argument that takes away from the personal enjoyment of the Service by other users.

continue along this path at your own peril.

Thanks Charles, I will keep that in mind.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The claim of the article is that the wind turbines contribute to global warming.

The article claims no such thing.

[Dan and Judy 614]

OR are you saying the wind farm COULD contribute to global warming?

Of course it does. Everyone knows if you sit in front of a fan thats moving the air it cools you off. So naturaly if the air is moving the fan it would work in reverse and heat things up.

[luckytxn 2,264]

If man is causing this ####### then get rid of man. Simple enough.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I love the left wing nuts jobs in here trying to save face...

Their little precious global temp readers just so happen to fall directly into the path of wind farms, heat islands, etc...

No wonder the earf is warming.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Of course it does. Everyone knows if you sit in front of a fan thats moving the air it cools you off. So naturaly if the air is moving the fan it would work in reverse and heat things up.

Opps! changed my mind. The consevation of wind principle . Though localy wind can speed up and slow down with inversly related tempurature changes, The total amount of wind

wind remains constant when you multiply the mass of the wind by the speed. So on a global level whenever a fan blows air inducing a drop in tempurature, A windmill somewhere

else will spin thereby raising the temp. So in the end it is a wash, I think it was the CWP that Gary was alluding to.

[james&olya 1,121]

Elementary physics answers this issue. In this case the study apparently shows that the specific location of a wind farm is slightly warmer than other spots. This can be understood by anyone who works on cars. One of the warmest places on a car is the brake pads after heavy braking! The wind farm is doing the same. Any object that slows (applies the brakes) to wind is going to have some of the kinetic energy of that wind converted into heat as the wind is slowed. This will not cause global warming! Why? Because to the extent that the wind has been slowed it has less energy to lose to other objects it encounters. The energy that has been captured and converted into electricity has also been taken out of the kinetic energy of the wind. No net global warming or cooling is possible by this. The electricity, when used, will release back into the environment no more and no less energy than was taken out in the first place. Simple physics!

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

The article can be debunked in terms of the wind turbines affecting global warming most easily. It is not "bogus" that they generate heat, it IS bogus that they contribute to global warming and NOT because it is "localized". The claim of the article is that the wind turbines contribute to global warming. I made NO argument about the title OR the article. I am frequently accused of doing things I do not do, I accept that as a defense mechanism of people that lack knowledge.

My argument was with the flippant remark that "it is localized, need I say more" which the unicorn believers quickly +1'd even though it is nowhere near correct as being the reason it does not affect global warming. If one is going to respond as though people who disagree are stupid, one should at least be correct.

No 1. The article and the original study is not saying that the turbines cause global warming...

No. 2. They DO have a localized effect per the study...

So I'm really not sure what you are doing in this thread other than asking me questions about the urban heat island effect and then attacking me for it. You haven't even bothered refuting the definition I gave you. To say that you have an argument about "it is localized, need I say more" is laughable. You haven't even bothered to argue, you'd rather attack me instead.

Grow up.