HUGE: Wind Farms Cause Global Warming.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Oops.

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http://phys.org/news/2012-04-farms-temperature-region.html

While converting the kinetic energy of wind into electricity, wind turbines modify exchanges between the ground and atmosphere, and affect the transfer of energy, momentum, mass and moisture within the air, the authors of the study said.

They analysed satellite data from 2003 to 2011 over a region in west-central Texas where four of the world’s largest wind farms are home to more than 2,350 turbines.

Most were built between 2005 and 2008, allowing the researchers to assess the difference between a scenario with the smallest impact on the local climate and a scenario with the greatest.

Their findings are published today in the journal Nature Climate Change.

“Our results show a significant warming trend of up to 0.72 degree per decade, particularly at night-time, over wind farms relative to nearby non-wind-farm regions,” wrote lead author Liming Zhou, a Research Associate Professor from the Department of Atmospheric and Environmental Sciences at University at Albany. “We attribute this warming primarily to wind farms as its spatial pattern and magnitude couples very well with the geographic distribution of wind turbines.”

The temperature at night-time in summer increased by 0.46 degree over the same period.

Although the increase in temperatures could be attributed in some part to heat generated by the turbine footprint – the turbine blades, towers, access roads and so on – the footprint took up only a small percentage of the land area of wind farms, the researchers said.

Instead, it was likely that variations in wind speed, as well as fluctuations stirred up by turbines in the low part of the atmosphere, were largely responsible for the change. “The stronger wind speeds in [winter] than [summer] and at night-time than daytime … probably drive wind turbines to generate more electricity and turbulence and consequently result in the strongest warming effect at night-time in [winter].”

Professor Steven Sherwood, co-director of the Climate Change Research Centre at the University of New South Wales, said the findings “show that night-time temperatures went up by about 0.5 degree in the summer where the wind farm is. Daytime temperatures do not appear to be affected.

“This makes sense, since at night the ground becomes much cooler than the air just a few hundred meters above the surface, and the wind farms generate gentle turbulence near the ground that causes these to mix together, thus the ground doesn’t get quite as cool. This same strategy is commonly used by fruit growers, who fly helicopters over the orchards rather than windmills, to combat early morning frosts.”

[unlockingsky 94]

might as well rename the topic to 'human cause global warming' .lol

[natty bumppo 297]

might as well rename the topic to 'human cause global warming' .lol

wonder if the extra heat it caused by all those decaying dead birds at the base of the wind turbines?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Its no different than say an urban heat island. The effects are localized and occur at night, need I say more?

[Dan and Judy 614]

This sounds like hot air to me

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Its no different than say an urban heat island. The effects are localized and occur at night, need I say more?

Too factual. More hyperbole and false conjecture please, you are ruining a great thread!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Too factual. More hyperbole and false conjecture please, you are ruining a great thread!

That needed to be said. Here's what a proper response to this thread looks like:

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The denialists need to stick to one meme:

1. Global Warming is a hoax perpetuated by libruls to turn us all into communist zombies.

2. Global Warming Theory is a conspiracy by climate scientists who can't wait to get their greedy hands on my research money to buy more beakers.

3. Humans can't possibly change the climate - only God or Superman can.

4. Wind Farms cause Global Warming.

5. My dog causes Global Warming, but it's not real anyway.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Its no different than say an urban heat island. The effects are localized and occur at night, need I say more?

Yes, please say more

So what you are saying is that urban heat islands, and their SOURCE, have no affect on climate other than localized at night? Correct? So all the "stuff" that creates the urban heat island...cars, heat escape from structures, electricity consumption, emissions from factories, human population density, power plants, etc...none of that matters. Right? None of that causes global warming?

If that is not the case then please give a detailed explanation of how the SOURCE of heat in "heat islands" has no effect on global warming except locally at night. I'll check back for your answer.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Yes, please say more

So what you are saying is that urban heat islands, and their SOURCE, have no affect on climate other than localized at night? Correct? So all the "stuff" that creates the urban heat island...cars, heat escape from structures, electricity consumption, emissions from factories, human population density, power plants, etc...none of that matters. Right? None of that causes global warming?

If that is not the case then please give a detailed explanation of how the SOURCE of heat in "heat islands" has no effect on global warming except locally at night. I'll check back for your answer.

The principle behind an urban heat island has more to do with physical materials and their ability to absorb heat and hold on to it overnight. Its a localized effect, though it may contribute to global warming at some point as we pave more and more of the earth's surface I suppose.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The principle behind an urban heat island has more to do with physical materials and their ability to absorb heat and hold on to it overnight. Its a localized effect, though it may contribute to global warming at some point as we pave more and more of the earth's surface I suppose.

Nice attempt at a dodge.

Where does the heat come from that heats the materials and how is it not a contributor to global warming? Please be specific.

I am specifically looking for you to tell me how heat we generate in cities is NOT a contributor to global warming.

Also please reconcile your "localized effect" to what we are told by Global Warming Alarmists (AKA "Chicken Little's") that local conditions ARE related to global warming. Such as the frost this morning in upstate New York that destroyed the apple crop is related to global warming. How can THAT local affect be attributed to global warming and the heat islands NOT be attributed to it? Details please with specific evidence.

Please explain why LOCAL heat affects caused by the heat generated in cities is NOT a contributor to global warming.

The principle behind an urban heat island has more to do with physical materials and their ability to absorb heat and hold on to it overnight. Its a localized effect, though it may contribute to global warming at some point as we pave more and more of the earth's surface I suppose.

OR are you saying the wind farm COULD contribute to global warming?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Nice attempt at a dodge.

Where does the heat come from that heats the materials and how is it not a contributor to global warming? Please be specific.

I am specifically looking for you to tell me how heat we generate in cities is NOT a contributor to global warming.

Also please reconcile your "localized effect" to what we are told by Global Warming Alarmists (AKA "Chicken Little's") that local conditions ARE related to global warming. Such as the frost this morning in upstate New York that destroyed the apple crop is related to global warming. How can THAT local affect be attributed to global warming and the heat islands NOT be attributed to it? Details please with specific evidence.

Please explain why LOCAL heat affects caused by the heat generated in cities is NOT a contributor to global warming.

OR are you saying the wind farm COULD contribute to global warming?

The heat comes from the sun. It heats up pavement, roof structures etc. They hold on to this heat during the night, while rural areas cool off. Local conditions do not reflect global warming. Lots of unusual weather could be an indicator, but lets face it our records of local patterns are at best a century or two old.

Regarding local heat islands and their affect on GW. This study says its unlikely.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1999/1998GL900322.shtml

I have no doubt if we paved the earth's surface in its entirety we would see a temp increase. Also if we covered the entire earth's surface with turbines we'd also see the same result.

I was not dodging in anyway. I was only answering your question to the best of my ability.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Sousuke

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The heat comes from the sun. It heats up pavement, roof structures etc. They hold on to this heat during the night, while rural areas cool off. Local conditions do not reflect global warming. Lots of unusual weather could be an indicator, but lets face it our records of local patterns are at best a century or two old.

Regarding local heat islands and their affect on GW. This study says its unlikely.

http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1999/1998GL900322.shtml

I have no doubt if we paved the earth's surface in its entirety we would see a temp increase. Also if we covered the entire earth's surface with turbines we'd also see the same result.

I was not dodging in anyway. I was only answering your question to the best of my ability.

So cities do not affect global warming? American cities have no affect?

Sousuke, your first attempt at an answer was a flippant one-liner as if to blow off anyone that disagreed as an idiot. Yet when pressed to say more you stumble and cannot provide an answer and say it is the "best of my ability" Really? Should you even be answering at all? Should you be maing a judgement?

There actually IS an answer to the article. It is very simple and basic. One of the most basic of principals.

[Iyawo Ijebu 157]

Too factual. More hyperbole and false conjecture please, you are ruining a great thread!

I recognize and salute your wits Sir

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

So cities do not affect global warming? American cities have no affect?

Sousuke, your first attempt at an answer was a flippant one-liner as if to blow off anyone that disagreed as an idiot. Yet when pressed to say more you stumble and cannot provide an answer and say it is the "best of my ability" Really? Should you even be answering at all? Should you be maing a judgement?

There actually IS an answer to the article. It is very simple and basic. One of the most basic of principals.

Please stop with the personal attacks.

I never said cities do not cause global warming. I said the urban heat island effect does not. My first post mentioned such an effect. You asked me about that effect. I explained. I've been nice, you have not sir.

I HAVE answered your question about the urban heat island effect and look what I get...accusations. You do this in similar threads and then as I continue to explain you just disappear...to attack me another day I suppose.

Edited April 30, 2012 by Sousuke