honeymoon with the WHOLE family?

[Veiled Princess 1]

I didn't think that the ME/NA inlaws would be very impressed that you were previously married and have children regardless of their race or religion? My past relationship was never a topic of conversation with Hicham or his family. I think they were happy that I had never been married though. I don't think one can win points because their kids from a previous marriage are Muslim, but maybe I am wrong? I thought that in some families who are traditional or strict that the family wouldn't want their children marrying someone who was divorced with children... but the times do change!

It is not haraam in Islam to divorce or remarry afterwards... the prophet was married to a divorcee I would think it would be frowned upon more so if one had premarital relations prior to their marriage but I could be wrong

I know that when Hicham's sister got married her and her husband had their marriage registered before they spent the night together. Even though his family isn't traditional or very religious, she still felt it wasn't right to sleep together without registering her marriage in Morocco. She just didn't feel that it was right.

And your point is??

I didn't think that the ME/NA inlaws would be very impressed that you were previously married and have children regardless of their race or religion? My past relationship was never a topic of conversation with Hicham or his family. I think they were happy that I had never been married though. I don't think one can win points because their kids from a previous marriage are Muslim, but maybe I am wrong? I thought that in some families who are traditional or strict that the family wouldn't want their children marrying someone who was divorced with children... but the times do change!

It is not haraam in Islam to divorce or remarry afterwards... the prophet was married to a divorcee I would think it would be frowned upon more so if one had premarital relations prior to their marriage but I could be wrong

I dont think anyone said it was Haram. This has nothing to do with Islam, most arabs feel this way. I know my fiances family is not thrilled that i was previously married. This is just in reference to what Moody said earlier about having a better relationship because she was previosly married to an arabic man.

Well apparently it's not true for all Arab families. Some are more concerned with whether he's marrying a good muslim/christian/jewish woman instead of whether she's been married before or not. She also said it was helpful that they considered her to be a 'real' muslim.... that gives me the impression her family is one who cares about their religion and isn't just following culture. I could, of course, be mistaken.

[jordanianprincess 0]

Well apparently it's not true for all Arab families. Some are more concerned with whether he's marrying a good muslim/christian/jewish woman instead of whether she's been married before or not. She also said it was helpful that they considered her to be a 'real' muslim.... that gives me the impression her family is one who cares about their religion and isn't just following culture. I could, of course, be mistaken.

I said most arab families, not all. Also Henia said they were more concerned with her relious beliefs not Moody. Religion is a huge part of arab culture, muslim or christian.

[Veiled Princess 1]

Well apparently it's not true for all Arab families. Some are more concerned with whether he's marrying a good muslim/christian/jewish woman instead of whether she's been married before or not. She also said it was helpful that they considered her to be a 'real' muslim.... that gives me the impression her family is one who cares about their religion and isn't just following culture. I could, of course, be mistaken.

I said most arab families, not all. Also Henia said they were more concerned with her relious beliefs not Moody. Religion is a huge part of arab culture, muslim or christian.

I saw the quote "real muslim" in Moody's post... if she wasn't the one to coin the phrase then I apologize for having poor message board etiquettes.

[Bosco 1]

What is a "real Muslim" anyway? Are any of us really fit to the make that determination?

[Veiled Princess 1]

What is a "real Muslim" anyway? Are any of us really fit to the make that determination?

I believe she was saying the family considered her a 'real muslim' because she was muslim before she met her husband and has been married to a muslim / Arab man before and have children who have been raised as muslims... etc etc etc.... I don't think she was claiming to be a 'real muslim'.

At least that's what I got out of the posts.

[jpaula 20]

Really? Hmmmm that was just a tall tale my husband told me so I would not ask him to take me many times...

Henia,

I went to the South with no problem. I never got a police report or a permit. In fact never heard I needed one. You can fly Alger to Ghardaia quite easily (daily flights) and then head south from there. Just be sure to go with someone who knows what they are doing.

I found that people always tell you things are impossible in Algeria when in fact they are fairly easy. I write it off to a certain shell-shocked reaction to years of war. I stopped asking family about these kinds of things and just went out and bought plane tickets. Got a few for the family too and they were thrilled to come along. You just have to get over this undercurrent of resignation. I do wonder how unique my experience has been and if others have encountered this.

[jordanianprincess 0]

What is a "real Muslim" anyway? Are any of us really fit to the make that determination?

I believe she was saying the family considered her a 'real muslim' because she was muslim before she met her husband and has been married to a muslim / Arab man before and have children who have been raised as muslims... etc etc etc.... I don't think she was claiming to be a 'real muslim'.

At least that's what I got out of the posts.

I don't think any of that makes your a "real Muslim"

[Veiled Princess 1]

What is a "real Muslim" anyway? Are any of us really fit to the make that determination?

I believe she was saying the family considered her a 'real muslim' because she was muslim before she met her husband and has been married to a muslim / Arab man before and have children who have been raised as muslims... etc etc etc.... I don't think she was claiming to be a 'real muslim'.

At least that's what I got out of the posts.

I don't think any of that makes your a "real Muslim"

And I didn't say it did.... I said I think that is what she was saying she observed in the way she was treated/accepted.

[jordanianprincess 0]

What is a "real Muslim" anyway? Are any of us really fit to the make that determination?

I believe she was saying the family considered her a 'real muslim' because she was muslim before she met her husband and has been married to a muslim / Arab man before and have children who have been raised as muslims... etc etc etc.... I don't think she was claiming to be a 'real muslim'.

At least that's what I got out of the posts.

I don't think any of that makes your a "real Muslim"

And I didn't say it did.... I said I think that is what she was saying she observed in the way she was treated/accepted.

I'm sorry I just don't get any of that. In my opinion they would have treated her well bcz she is a good and genuine person that traveled halfway around the world to be with him which is alot more than he can find in Algeria. Its definitly a bonus for them that she is Muslim, its a bonus that she speaks arabic. Sharing religion and culture is definitly a good thing.

[doodlebug 3]

well i guess techically i am screwed because I will have taken my shahada about 4 1/2 months before my wedding day, my kids are not arabic, my kids are not muslim and I don't speak the lingo.

I"m not worried though. I"m marrying him, not his sisters.

[Bosco 1]

What is a "real Muslim" anyway? Are any of us really fit to the make that determination?

I believe she was saying the family considered her a 'real muslim' because she was muslim before she met her husband and has been married to a muslim / Arab man before and have children who have been raised as muslims... etc etc etc.... I don't think she was claiming to be a 'real muslim'.

At least that's what I got out of the posts.

I wasn't referring to what Moody or Henia said, but speaking generally. What is a "real Muslim"? It isn't the first time I have heard the expression used (and outside of VJ as well).

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Ok forive me if I am wrong here, but there is another thread here about people sleeping together before marriage, I don't remember your response (I think you said you didnt) but so many did. In any case, I don't think any of that plays into what makes a marriage successful.

I think that not engaging in sex before marriage has an impact on the success of marriage. The stats on marriage in the west are pitiful, but pre-marital and extra-marital sex is celebrated. There tends to be a feeling of entitlement and laisse faire among those who can't wait to fall in between the sheets or who pretend to be married so they can get down. Please, successful marriages require discipline, compromise, respect and security. I don't see how you can get that without true commitment, and true commitment is not defined by pre-marital sex.

[honeyblonde 0]

szsz - your opinion is certainly one side of things.

I grew up in a strict Christian environment and saw so many marriages between kids whose hormones were pushing them to become sexually active so they rushed into marriage to satisfy those urges. I've also seen Muslim men do the same. Growing up I saw more adults cheating on each other who claimed to be devout christians than I did those who I didn't see cheating, yes even ministers.

I'm not saying that it's necessarily desirable to just go out and sleep with anybody and everybody, but I also don't see that waiting until marriage will somehow make the marriage better. I do think that internet dating allows the ability to get to know someone as a person before becoming intimate and that is certainly a good thing, but once two people know each other well I think sexuality is just a deepening of that "getting to know each other."

Personally I found that having sex with a guy was a pretty good way to find out his intentions toward me. If that was all he wanted he was on his way soon enough and I didn't end up in a serious relationship with a hormone controlled dog.

There are ways to prevent disease and pregnancy, so those excuses against promiscuity are quite outdated.

I'm sure I will be attacked by all kinds of people here for my opinion, but fine. I am who I am and I am a woman who thinks that many women who will openly say they won't have sex outside of marriage do it a whole lot more than they admit.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

There are reasons why cultures and religions have counsuled saving yourself for marriage, and not believing that there is something valuable about that has not benefited our society, nor has it supported self-discipline or respect. Our society is courser, more chaotic, and more dependent on sex and sexual expression to communicate ideas than it has ever been, and much of it has been a byproduct of the "if it feels good, do it" attitude that has developed over the last 4 decades.

Our largest export is our culture, and because of the hedonistic values we export, western women are expected to be easy to lay, less demanding, and willing to "experiment". So many oblige, keeping the stereotype alive. Not something good to be known for.

Edited October 13, 2006 by szsz

[honeyblonde 0]

True our society is too focused on sex. But just because society doesn't do something right doesn't mean that we need to run to the opposite corner and hide.

Society has also crammed religion down people's throats for centuries and look what good that has done us. Religious people fight way more than non-religious people. Throughout history some of the bloodiest massacres have been in the name of god.

Maybe there are just some of us who think for ourselves and don't go looking for a book or religion or society to tell us what to think. Maybe some of us think that if there is a higher being it expects us to use the brains we have and think for ourselves instead of just swallowing other people's opinions.

I never endorsed "doing what feels right" nor did I endorse rampant promiscuity. I just think that the saving of oneself for marriage can lead to some pretty unexpected outcomes. When the focus is on "not" doing something sometimes it can be as bad as when the focus is in the opposite direction.