looking for MENA success stories

[Nasturtium 500]

Why the inshalla? Have you coverted? That seems to be a trend as well, some women just have no backone.

Lame attempt at drama. There are more awesome topics which can start something better. Also, the problem with your attempt is that even if she had, you wouldn't know when she did until you had asked a few more questions. Some people convert before they meet their husbands, which ruins your theory. Some convert after with careful consideration. Some are just sponges with no backbone who lose themselves in their SO's identity. If they are like this, then they tend to do that with who ever they are with and it's not about religion. The one word analysis is kind of failing here. Think about it for a while, read the forum, and I'm sure you'll find something better. You also need to wait for a day when more feisty people are online all at the same time. That's when it gets pretty fun. You did get some responses though, so I'll give this effort a D.

[Cathi 5,744]

It's an Internet board, not everyone is going to like every little thing you do or say. Take what's helpful to heart, ignore the rest. Regardless of where you and Betsy may disagree on random Arabic phrases and your use of them, she did make some points that are good for you to think about and consider.

I wasn't speaking of Betsy. I was talking about that Peter Pan person who had his comments removed. It doesn't bother me that Betsy isn't thrilled that I said it, It bothers me that PP felt the need to personally attack me. Oh well like you said this is an open forum and people will say what they want.

[Cathi 5,744]

I have never discussed anything in depth with my husband. You guys are way too much smarty pants.

LOL!!!

[Cathi 5,744]

The way I see it, this couple has obstacles stacked on obstacles. First of all, a woman being married to a guy 20 years younger may work for now but the odds are it won't last. How old are you 40? 45? You may still be somewhat put together at this point and can still act young enough to keep your man interested. Fast forward 10 years and ask yourself will this still hold true? If you are 55 then, he will be 35 and those differences are HUGE. I don't think that goes for just a foreign relationship it's with ANY relationship. Also, it's common knowledge that you won't go to Egypt, or Jordan or Saudi Arabia and encounter many men married to women likely very close in age to their mom. That let's you know that it's not culturally the NORM. Believe me, I am as much a skeptic of men married to women 20 years their junior. And really, what could you have in common?? Either you are extremely immature or he is extremely old for his age. And then there's the kids (the ones you already have) and the fact that more than likely you won't be able to have kids together. Have you thought of that? Oh well, enough of that I am sure you have thought this all out. As for the Inshallah thing, it really does grate my nerves as well. It's just a little odd. To me, it would be like my Egyptian husband deciding to use American slang to fit in. For some reason many women feel obligated to ingratiate themselves into their spouses culture. Just being myself has worked for me so far! Best of luck with your immigration adventure!

I don't feel obligated to say anything. We have discussed the children part and I am more than willing to have more kids, in fact I look forward to it. And thanks for the well wishes, it has been an adventure to say the least!!

[Cathi 5,744]

Yes to these and to add-- I think you cannot deny there will be cultural differences, and culture/socialization can play a huge role (possibly bigger role) than religion-- but also consider personality. Someone who is shy in their culture will likely continue being shy here. Someone who is naturally an extrovert will eventually become extroverted here. This is what I meant in another thread about being able to actually get along with someone. Some people have it in their personality to never compromise, or to be sneaky, etc. It's just something to watch for and take note of-- if you actually have someone whose personality you like, the base personality. That takes a lot of years to tease out though from culture and even then you may never really get it to separate.

And yes to the extended vacations. Some people think that spending a few weeks or months somewhere=living there. That's an extended vacation. Even if you were working and renting a place-- then it is a work vacation. For example, I tell people I worked in Jordan for 2 summer field seasons-- but I never lived there. I had a job, I showed up there every day, I did my thing-- but it certainly was not putting down roots. I was not a resident. I did not have a resident visa even. I had a temporary work visa. That's not living. There was still vacation glow present.

Good luck! Looking at other relationships really only gets you so far, unfortunately. There aren't a whole lot of successes on this particular board for that kind of gap.

everything you said is very true!!!!!

Sister,.no one is trying to put you on the defense. I think what we're trying to do is make you keenly aware that craziness abounds in MENA, fraud abounds, and to take everything with a grain of salt...actually, two grains. Be smart, be vigilant and be prepared. Nobody wants you to get crapped on...I can honestly say that we all have your best interest at heart.

For those of us that have been around these boards for years, we've seen everything. Hell, one if my favorite stories was the time that the CO brought the wife in to the embassy to tell her that the reason for the denial was that her husband already had two wives and children! Who had been presented to her as nieces and nephews. Yes, true story....my personal fave!

You two might be drama free, but just know that yours is a totally uphill battle and the COs will look at your age situation with a very leery eye.

Thanks Staashi!!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Sister,.no one is trying to put you on the defense. I think what we're trying to do is make you keenly aware that craziness abounds in MENA, fraud abounds, and to take everything with a grain of salt...actually, two grains. Be smart, be vigilant and be prepared. Nobody wants you to get crapped on...I can honestly say that we all have your best interest at heart.

For those of us that have been around these boards for years, we've seen everything. Hell, one if my favorite stories was the time that the CO brought the wife in to the embassy to tell her that the reason for the denial was that her husband already had two wives and children! Who had been presented to her as nieces and nephews. Yes, true story....my personal fave!

You two might be drama free, but just know that yours is a totally uphill battle and the COs will look at your age situation with a very leery eye.

Two wives? Lol. I did not remember that Staashi. I think its also the individual personality of the person petitioned. I often wonder if the reason these guys rage is not any of the reasons that anyone has presented. Maybe the fact they are in a marriage that they do not perceive as a real one to begin with and the rage swells up inside of these particular guys and they are just so depressed with the choice they made to go after papers rather than marry a girl from the neighborhood who is similar in age and background. I have a completely different perspective because I know some of the guys post American divorce and when they get their wives from back home. I knew one guy who was married to an american and he swore up and down to me that she was drunk and even the new wife from Morocco chimed in..she was drunk, she did this and did that. Well maybe when it hit her that her marriage was in shambles and that her beloved husband didnt love her, she went crazy and started drinking. Its hard on the wives of these guys, let me tell you. I guess if they did not love the person they married, then it would be easy to rationalise being used and tossed but for the unfortunate americans who are deeply in love with the person they petitoned and worked so hard to get here , the loss is devastating. I for one have been unable to round up a huge ball of rage to stay mad. I just have become very quiet and sad and I do remember the things that were not wrong quite frequently. I loved the man I petitioned and still do. Unfortunately I think for me, I wasnt able and still cannot get very very very mad. I feel loss every time I think of things but I will tell you that my neighbors and my friends and just about anyone who has seen my husband yelling, shouting, raging even at co workers, talking loudly almost to the point of barking and the fights he and his friends get in have a completely horrible impression of people from that part of the world and honestly, in my heart, they should not. I have a hard time explaining that people from that part of the world talk loudly and also explaining that racism is based sometimes on how people treat you. If someone from that part of the world, treated someone you cared about like ####### and generally had a menacing personality, people start to think all people are like that. Some of these guys, in my humble opinion, thought that the whole marry for papers thing would not be a hard thing to do but it gets especially hard for these guys when they meet people from back home and these guys are either divorced, married to women from back home or came here on the lottery and they are with a woman old enough to be their mom (which one on one might not be so bad or in private) but they don't feel proud of their wives, hence the rage welling up and the depression ensuing. Just a thought. It just seems like there are alot of these stories of rage and frankly I do not see much of this rage in most of the guys not tied to a woman for their existance.IMHO..Maybe the guys are pissed off. Its not excusing it. Its looking for the reasons why alot of these guys act like they do ( onliine affairs with women closer to their age, similar backgrounds etc) I am not saying its right. I am saying its explainable. I will tell you what, facebook is blowing alot of the covers of the men who are just playing the game. You cannot show up to a ROC or to an embassy interview when you are not being honest about your marriage, fiance or relationship etc

This is not to excuse the crappy behavior. Its not to slight the women because its not their fault. Its more to dig a little deeper into why the big change. I know that I had done NOTHING wrong to my husband 4 years ago when he arrived but he arrived upset. Its as if it seemed like a good idea at the time and then they find themselves in a big mess they cannot get out of

One thing that has NOT been talked about at any length is the fact that domestic violence is NOT treated with the same shock or horror or even police action that it is here. Domestic violence is an everyday part of life in many mena countries and seen as common place and is often policed by the parents and families themselves. Its only here that we call 911 for a slap. I saw a man slap his girlfriend in the face just walking down the street in north africa and it was not seen as shocking or all that weird. Maybe the guys themselves are not from a good family or grew up with the cultural norm of male dominated and male controlled society. I know plenty of mena guys who never hit a soul but most of my friends that are mena that would never hit anyone do in fact know guys that do.. they look down at it big time but they will acknowledge privately that most have either a sister or know someone else close who is and has been abused physically.. most have family that intervene. But when you have an american spouse, maybe living far from anyone that will advocate for her, she might feel isolated and not able to speak up for herself. Couple that with the general disdain for the spouse to begin with and maybe pressure from his community not to report, its hard to understand the dynamics of all of this. I would love to hear from one of these guys that hit their wives or mistreated his wife what his take on his own behavior was. If he felt bad or knew he was wrong ..etc

Edited April 24, 2012 by Beauty for Ashes

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

Two wives? Lol. I did not remember that Staashi. I think its also the individual personality of the person petitioned. I often wonder if the reason these guys rage is not any of the reasons that anyone has presented. Maybe the fact they are in a marriage that they do not perceive as a real one to begin with and the rage swells up inside of these particular guys and they are just so depressed with the choice they made to go after papers rather than marry a girl from the neighborhood who is similar in age and background. I have a completely different perspective because I know some of the guys post American divorce and when they get their wives from back home. I knew one guy who was married to an american and he swore up and down to me that she was drunk and even the new wife from Morocco chimed in..she was drunk, she did this and did that. Well maybe when it hit her that her marriage was in shambles and that her beloved husband didnt love her, she went crazy and started drinking. Its hard on the wives of these guys, let me tell you. I guess if they did not love the person they married, then it would be easy to rationalise being used and tossed but for the unfortunate americans who are deeply in love with the person they petitoned and worked so hard to get here , the loss is devastating. I for one have been unable to round up a huge ball of rage to stay mad. I just have become very quiet and sad and I do remember the things that were not wrong quite frequently. I loved the man I petitioned and still do. Unfortunately I think for me, I wasnt able and still cannot get very very very mad. I feel loss every time I think of things but I will tell you that my neighbors and my friends and just about anyone who has seen my husband yelling, shouting, raging even at co workers, talking loudly almost to the point of barking and the fights he and his friends get in have a completely horrible impression of people from that part of the world and honestly, in my heart, they should not. I have a hard time explaining that people from that part of the world talk loudly and also explaining that racism is based sometimes on how people treat you. If someone from that part of the world, treated someone you cared about like ####### and generally had a menacing personality, people start to think all people are like that. Some of these guys, in my humble opinion, thought that the whole marry for papers thing would not be a hard thing to do but it gets especially hard for these guys when they meet people from back home and these guys are either divorced, married to women from back home or came here on the lottery and they are with a woman old enough to be their mom (which one on one might not be so bad or in private) but they don't feel proud of their wives, hence the rage welling up and the depression ensuing. Just a thought. It just seems like there are alot of these stories of rage and frankly I do not see much of this rage in most of the guys not tied to a woman for their existance.IMHO..Maybe the guys are pissed off. Its not excusing it. Its looking for the reasons why alot of these guys act like they do ( onliine affairs with women closer to their age, similar backgrounds etc) I am not saying its right. I am saying its explainable. I will tell you what, facebook is blowing alot of the covers of the men who are just playing the game. You cannot show up to a ROC or to an embassy interview when you are not being honest about your marriage, fiance or relationship etc

This is not to excuse the crappy behavior. Its not to slight the women because its not their fault. Its more to dig a little deeper into why the big change. I know that I had done NOTHING wrong to my husband 4 years ago when he arrived but he arrived upset. Its as if it seemed like a good idea at the time and then they find themselves in a big mess they cannot get out of

One thing that has NOT been talked about at any length is the fact that domestic violence is NOT treated with the same shock or horror or even police action that it is here. Domestic violence is an everyday part of life in many mena countries and seen as common place and is often policed by the parents and families themselves. Its only here that we call 911 for a slap. I saw a man slap his girlfriend in the face just walking down the street in north africa and it was not seen as shocking or all that weird. Maybe the guys themselves are not from a good family or grew up with the cultural norm of male dominated and male controlled society. I know plenty of mena guys who never hit a soul but most of my friends that are mena that would never hit anyone do in fact know guys that do.. they look down at it big time but they will acknowledge privately that most have either a sister or know someone else close who is and has been abused physically.. most have family that intervene. But when you have an american spouse, maybe living far from anyone that will advocate for her, she might feel isolated and not able to speak up for herself. Couple that with the general disdain for the spouse to begin with and maybe pressure from his community not to report, its hard to understand the dynamics of all of this. I would love to hear from one of these guys that hit their wives or mistreated his wife what his take on his own behavior was. If he felt bad or knew he was wrong ..etc

One more funny thing I wanted to recount. I knew a 50 year old from north africa who had pretty much abused his wife from back home. He brought her here and became enraged when some " americans" got to her LOL and she pressed charges and left him. So its not just people married to Americans that are in for a culture shock. Women for all of our issues are in positions of power in the US and in Europe and this really makes a power inbalance in the minds of alot of these guys. Couple that with the whole vacation relationship versus the whole dealing with reality and a big age or cultural difference starts to take root. I also wanted to add that some of the families of these women involved in these cross cultural relationships are not too happy with the way that some mena people treat their wives. Its ok for the wife to wait hand and foot on the man but even small things like not being allowed to talk to people that come to the house that are of the opposite sex. Or wives of especially religious people who are not allowed to even sit in the same room. We here in the USA talk to anyone we want to but thats not the case sometimes overseas. Men can go out and do what they want, even go dancing. In the US, women are allowed even via our families to go out at night with no one being upset about it. Its confusing, especially for people who havent travelled. All their lives some of these guys have been coached or told how marriage should be and then they arrive here and they are economically crippled and they want to run their us house like they would in morocco lets say and thats just not simply how we roll here in the US. I think the missing part of the equation is someone from over there talking about what they grew up seeing, or being around or someone who lived over there that witnessed the difference in cultural norms. Sometimes there is no difference. Sometimes the difference is wide chasm that no one can cross over.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

I agree ^ I was 19 when I married my 25 yr old MENA spouse. I'm not from an Arab background but a similar country. I'm now 25 we are still very happy together, yet I had found myself still wanting to explore life and just recently started to think about serious life plans for our future. This could possibly be the same thing with a younger MENA man like in his early 20's. You have to really consider the age difference if he was THAT young. Other than those factors, I don't think age is anything more than a number. It's not a generalization that younger girls are "immature" they are just not at that maturity level of experience older women have. An older woman wouldn't pester her husband for ridiculous things most younger girls bother their husbands with. So for all the older wives that's something I'm pretty sure the husbands are grateful for lol.

There's also a lot of things that Western girls do that MENA girls don't even think about doing such as drinking, going out dancing, wearing certain types of clothing, and etc.. My husband came from a very strict background but when he came to the states he started to open up a lot more to Westernized customs. Just saying, this is something I kind of see which attracts MENA men to Westernized women of any age.

I wouldnt say that all mena girls do not do these things. They do. They go out in different cities where their brothers, neighbors and families cannot see them. Its unfair to catagorise all western girls as doing things mena girls dont do. There are alot of things under the water that you don't see unless you live there. Even in hotels, you see college age girls from other parts of the country in North Africa wearing alot less clothes than even a crazy disco girl in the US would wear. They have illicit affairs there just like here, there is cheating there just like here. Everything is just done alot lower under the radar.. and YES there are age difference relationships such as divorced women with much younger men and a whole subculture there in the vacation spots, especially the west where there are all things going on. Your husband's country has nonsense as to all the mena countries from east to west. The west does not have a monopoly on bad behavior. We just dont have to hide as much while we are being bad. I don't think that they are attracted to western women because of the openness. I think its just who they meet and who will talk to them and engage in a relationship with them. I will say that family is very important and while men will do god knows what out with their friends and where no one can see them, around family its a completely different story

Edited April 24, 2012 by Beauty for Ashes

[msheesha 548]

I don't feel obligated to say anything. We have discussed the children part and I am more than willing to have more kids, in fact I look forward to it. And thanks for the well wishes, it has been an adventure to say the least!!

Sorry if I missed your exact ages somewhere, but you've mentioned that you're 20 years older than him. Hopefully he's at least 20, which puts you at least 40. You may already know his feelings, as well as the norm in Jordanian culture about fertility assistance, and/or adoption. But, just in case, those would be good topics to cover with him to ensure there are no problems/disappointments in the future.

[Cathi 5,744]

Sorry if I missed your exact ages somewhere, but you've mentioned that you're 20 years older than him. Hopefully he's at least 20, which puts you at least 40. You may already know his feelings, as well as the norm in Jordanian culture about fertility assistance, and/or adoption. But, just in case, those would be good topics to cover with him to ensure there are no problems/disappointments in the future.

we have talked about it a lot., long before we were married and we still do. I wanted to make sure he was totally OK with it if I don't or can't have more children. A lot of that was for my benefit, so I don;t get into a marriage that was doomed to fail if for some reason I can't have more children

[Jenn! 918]

What I find even sadder than reading about the tragic endings of some MENA relationships is going back and reading the posts of those same posters pre-immigration. Everyone is always so confident that they are different.

[Mithra 1,185]

I'm sure you already know this but people have been known to change their minds regarding being ok with not having children. He may be ok with it now but not ok with it in 5 years. People say a lot of things when relationships and marriages are new. Don't be too surprised if things change one day.

Just curious...why exactly is it helpful for you to hear others success stories? Do you believe that all relationships involving Arab men married to older Americans are the same/similar? Also, you seem very confident in your own marriage so I'm not quite sure why you care if others' marriages are successful if you already seem to think yours is. Not trying to be rude or anything just trying to understand the whys.

we have talked about it a lot., long before we were married and we still do. I wanted to make sure he was totally OK with it if I don't or can't have more children. A lot of that was for my benefit, so I don;t get into a marriage that was doomed to fail if for some reason I can't have more children

Edited April 24, 2012 by Mithra

[Cathi 5,744]

I'm sure you already know this but people have been known to change their minds regarding being ok with not having children. He may be ok with it now but not ok with it in 5 years. People say a lot of things when relationships and marriages are new. Don't be too surprised if things change one day.

Just curious...why exactly is it helpful for you to hear others success stories? Do you believe that all relationships involving Arab men married to older Americans are the same/similar? Also, you seem very confident in your own marriage so I'm not quite sure why you care if others' marriages are successful if you already seem to think yours is. Not trying to be rude or anything just trying to understand the whys.

I am just curious. Nope..no relationship between people is ever the same for any age, culture, religion ect...not underlying motive...just curious..i like to hear people's experiences. I am never surprised at anything that happens in life.

[Cathi 5,744]

I am just curious. Nope..no relationship between people is ever the same for any age, culture, religion ect...not underlying motive...just curious..i like to hear people's experiences. I am never surprised at anything that happens in life.

i meant no underlying...my typing is so bad

[Staashi 371]

I am just curious. Nope..no relationship between people is ever the same for any age, culture, religion ect...not underlying motive...just curious..i like to hear people's experiences. I am never surprised at anything that happens in life.

Wow! No surprises...never?!? Either you're pretty lucky or pretty boring. We'll go with lucky. And yet, I'm pretty flabbergasted at least once a week with the sh!t that goes down in my life or that of my friends - and we're normal!

But don't worry, just wait till your man gets here...I'm sure he'll be able to surprise you with a few antics. They always do.