Congress is so divided it can't even pass a highway bill anymore

[unlockingsky 94]

I am not surprised that a big governmemt liberal does not understand the commerce clause - it is the means in which liberals have justified everything from the regulating of wheat on private land to the health care monster. Hey Mr. BIG government guy, trains existed and planes flew long before the big governmemt types got involved. You just can't fathom life or folks making it minus the heavy hand of the big government you love so much. Small government does not mean the return to horses and the like, I know, it's massive government for you or the sky will fall.

small or big government doesn't make a difference if your taxes are spent unwisely.

[mawilson 2,133]

So what? It's the same in the US - airports are typically owned and run locally. What's the big deal?

Exactly. No big deal. Yet Steven was arguing that airports and railroads would not exist without the federal government.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

small or big government doesn't make a difference if your taxes are spent unwisely.

wow, that's the biggest load of bullshit I've seen in awhile here...

You do realize spending is relative to the individual right. What one thinks is wise government spending, others will not.

Big Government = Big Trouble if you enjoy liberty and that's a proven fact.

[웃 910]

wow, that's the biggest load of bullshit I've seen in awhile here...

You do realize spending is relative to the individual right. What one thinks is wise government spending, others will not.

Big Government = Big Trouble if you enjoy liberty and that's a proven fact.

Her comment was "BS," "spending is relative to the individual," "what one thinks is wise gov't spending, others will not,"

BUT....

"Big Gov't = Big Trouble and that's a proven fact"

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Her comment was "BS," "spending is relative to the individual," "what one thinks is wise gov't spending, others will not,"

BUT....

"Big Gov't = Big Trouble and that's a proven fact"

Just ask the Jews.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Right Wingers bring up big government in just about every conversation. It's a pretty ambiguous term, but in their minds they envision big government as relating to expenditure, like Social Security and Medicare, two very successful programs that are popular among Americans. Those on the Left attest that they are not fans of big government either, but refer it to the encroachment of individual rights and civil liberties.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Right Wingers bring up big government in just about every conversation. It's a pretty ambiguous term, but in their minds they envision big government as relating to expenditure, like Social Security and Medicare, two very successful programs that are popular among Americans. Those on the Left attest that they are not fans of big government either, but refer it to the encroachment of individual rights and civil liberties.

Social Security and Medicare aren't successful. Where in the hell did you get that idea from?

A program that relies on the CURRENT work force to work, it not successful at all.

A "retirement fund" should be just that. A FUND that is already funded.

Of course we discourage people from actually saving torwards retirement/their future with BS programs like those anyway.

Just because people like "free cheese" and its popular, doesn't mean it's a "good" or successful program.

[Leatherneck 693]

Your attempt to make a false dichotomy from recognizing the role of Federal Gov't with interstate commerce as loving government is both amusing and childish. Try to stick with the merits of the argument.

As for the railroads - what land do you think most of the track is built on? And how do you think the railroad companies were able to build on that land? And with what money? Your ignorance of history is astounding.

Typical of you to deflect when your sycophant slobbering is challenged, that if not for the federal government, we as a nation somehow would've not progressed. The merits of your argument, "You can thank Big Daddy Gubmint for making it possible for you to drive coast to coast, or take a train, or fly." are sophomoric and your immature adulation for big government is comical.

Yeah, "trains existed and planes flew long before big government types got involved." Of course you would only post excerpts of history to support your 'worship of govt.' There is no "false dichotomy," the feds have a role in interstate commerce -- and supporters of ever bigger govt have used the commerce clause to grow govt.

Your praise of the founding father's common sense for strong govt via the commerce clause, then pretending you're not for big govt when called on it, is juvenile.

Your quotes demonstrate a monumental ignorance of history, a glaring attempt to play up government's role or a feeble disingenuous effort to minimize the contributions of evil capitalist regarding trains.

Jay Cooke was noted for his role in the financing of railroads in the northwestern United States.

Patterns of American Railroad Fiance, 1830-50

Governments played key roles in helping establish early rail lines. Besides providing support through the purchase and guarantee of securities, many state and local governments assisted individual railroads through land grants. Also, because railroads were often natural monopolies sanctioned by the state, their securities were viewed as akin to those of governments. In many cases, investors were not so much investing in the leadership of the railroad company but in the manufacturers, farmers, and consumers of the area in which the railroad operated.

Chief promoter of a transcontinental railroad was Asa Whitney, a New York merchant active in the China trade who was obsessed with the idea of a railroad to the Pacific. In January 1845 he petitioned Congress for a charter and grant of a sixty-mile strip through the public domain to help finance construction

Planning and construction of railroads in the United States progressed rapidly and haphazardly, without direction or supervision from the states that granted charters to construct them. Before 1840 most surveys were made for short passenger lines which proved to be financially unprofitable. Because steam-powered railroads had stiff competition from canal companies, many partially completed lines were abandoned. It was not until the Boston and Lowell Railroad diverted traffic from the Middlesex Canal that the success of the new mode of transportation was assured. The industrial and commercial depression and the panic of 1837 slowed railroad construction. Interest was revived, however, with completion of the Western Railroad of Massachusetts in 1843. This line conclusively demonstrated the feasibility of transporting agricultural products and other commodities by rail for long distances at low cost.

Theodore D. Judah, the engineer of the Sacramento Valley Railroad, became obsessed with the desire to build a transcontinental railroad. In 1860 he approached Leland Stanford, Collis P. Huntington, Mark Hopkins, and Charles Crocker, leading Sacramento merchants, and soon convinced them that building a transcontinental line would make them rich and famous. The prospect of tapping the wealth of the Nevada mining towns and forthcoming legislation for federal aid to railroads stimulated them to incorporate the Central Pacific Railroad Company of California. This line later merged with the Southern Pacific. It was through Judah's efforts and the support of Abraham Lincoln, who saw military benefits in the lines as well as the bonding of the Pacific Coast to the Union, that the Pacific Railroad finally became a reality.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Typical of you to deflect when your sycophant slobbering is challenged, that if not for the federal government, we as a nation somehow would've not progressed. The merits of your argument, "You can thank Big Daddy Gubmint for making it possible for you to drive coast to coast, or take a train, or fly." are sophomoric and your immature adulation for big government is comical.

Yeah, "trains existed and planes flew long before big government types got involved." Of course you would only post excerpts of history to support your 'worship of govt.' There is no "false dichotomy," the feds have a role in interstate commerce -- and supporters of ever bigger govt have used the commerce clause to grow govt.

Your praise of the founding father's common sense for strong govt via the commerce clause, then pretending you're not for big govt when called on it, is juvenile.

Your quotes demonstrate a monumental ignorance of history, a glaring attempt to play up government's role or a feeble disingenuous effort to minimize the contributions of evil capitalist regarding trains.

Oh brother.

[mawilson 2,133]

Typical of you to deflect when your sycophant slobbering is challenged, that if not for the federal government, we as a nation somehow would've not progressed. The merits of your argument, "You can thank Big Daddy Gubmint for making it possible for you to drive coast to coast, or take a train, or fly." are sophomoric and your immature adulation for big government is comical.

Yeah, "trains existed and planes flew long before big government types got involved." Of course you would only post excerpts of history to support your 'worship of govt.' There is no "false dichotomy," the feds have a role in interstate commerce -- and supporters of ever bigger govt have used the commerce clause to grow govt.

Your praise of the founding father's common sense for strong govt via the commerce clause, then pretending you're not for big govt when called on it, is juvenile.

Your quotes demonstrate a monumental ignorance of history, a glaring attempt to play up government's role or a feeble disingenuous effort to minimize the contributions of evil capitalist regarding trains.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

like Social Security and Medicare, two very successful programs that are popular among Americans.

Only if you are old. If you are under 55, and have to pay for the programs that won't be there paying the same generous benefits when they finally let you retire at age 85 or 90, if you live that long, they pretty much suck.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

A top-heavy majority of Americans don’t want cuts in Medicare and Social Security even if reductions go to close the federal deficit, according to a new national Pew Research poll. “Six in ten (60 percent) say it is more important to keep Social Security and Medicare benefits as they are; only about half as many (32 percent) say it is important to take steps to reduce the budget deficit,” Pew reported.

While the public criticizes current performance, the poll found broad, deep popularity for the basic programs of America’s social safety net.

Eighty-seven percent said Social Security has worked well, 88 percent praised Medicare, and 77 percent endorsed Medicaid, the program that supports health services for the poor.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2011/07/07/dont-mess-with-medicare-poll/

[Obama 2012 1,714]

A top-heavy majority of Americans don’t want cuts in Medicare and Social Security even if reductions go to close the federal deficit, according to a new national Pew Research poll. “Six in ten (60 percent) say it is more important to keep Social Security and Medicare benefits as they are; only about half as many (32 percent) say it is important to take steps to reduce the budget deficit,” Pew reported.

While the public criticizes current performance, the poll found broad, deep popularity for the basic programs of America’s social safety net.

Eighty-seven percent said Social Security has worked well, 88 percent praised Medicare, and 77 percent endorsed Medicaid, the program that supports health services for the poor.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2011/07/07/dont-mess-with-medicare-poll/

Give a stray cat milk and it will keep coming back for more.

People are no different.

Our dear friend Steven here is proof in the pudding. Born and raised to be indoctrinated into the system. All you have to do is give the Government a way in, and then they are in for life. Why? Because it's always hard to take away whats given because people are too damn lazy to learn to fend for themselves. They'd rather rob Peter to pay Paul because that's all they know.

[Leatherneck 693]

small or big government doesn't make a difference if your taxes are spent unwisely.

Except the big govt monster eats, steals and spends more of your taxes.

At least with small government, you don't have govt agents showing up to

the school of your 4 year old declaring her lunch unhealthy.

[웃 910]