Shoe on the OTHER foot!!???

[LeftCoastLady 441]

My wife and I have talked about moving to Sweden once her two children are adults and out of college n'at.

Ah, she's already getting you acclimated to the yinz-speak!

I have friends who live in the PGH. It's a great town with an interesting history and a heavy sense of DIY. There's also a great crafty/artist scene.

You're right in that moving to a new place is an opportunity to reinvent oneself if you choose to do so. Maybe if it's seen not so much as a challenge, but as an opportunity helps?

What has been exported of American culture internationally is often heavily exaggerated. That isn't to say that some of the stereotypes are completely false, but for all the extremes, most of the country is in the middle just trying to carve out a life for themselves/their loved ones.

[Ellesse 11]

Some great posts in this thread, and I can relate to a lot of what's been said already. One thing that stuck out was what Vanessa wrote:

I too got the "Aren't you SO happy you get to live in the US?"... um no? i don't really think about it. I'm not "living in the US", I'm "living with my husband". I am living away from my family and instead closer to his family who are (the vast majority are) bad people. My personal income is non-existent at the moment but even when I was working it was about half what I was earning back home. Yes the cost of living is lower here but I read a post just the other day were the lady was talking about how much financially better they are now (after many many years) and it got me thinking actually we're WORSE off. I'm sure it'll get better but there you go.

I don't hate living here (anymore ) but it doesn't mean I LOVE living here, I'm pretty ambivalent about it actually. It doesn't mean I should "go home" (like is so often said in reply to these kinds of posts). In fact I've had people get pretty insulting if I don't say I love it here. They get this curl of distaste on their lip... like I'm this selfish self-absorbed immigrant who doesn't realise how lucky I am.

I'm getting to the point where I dislike being asked that question if I was happy to move here as I know that people are expecting me to say 'yes, I am SO happy here and the US is the best place on earth'. And when I hesitate, or say 'well, it's different from the UK', I get a confused look - it really infuriates me at times as I don't want to insult people here, but I also can't pretend the US is the best country on earth as it isn't: it has faults like any other country, and, believe it or not, some things about the UK I prefer. That's not to say it's worse - I'm not saying that at all, but it's my experience that people just can't conceive that you wouldn't love being here. And, of course, I made the choice, but I wouldn't have moved here except to be with my husband, particularly small-town America. And, sometimes I wish my accent wasn't so much of a talking point. I'm used to being with people from other countries so wouldn't comment on how much I 'love' an accent, but people will do that here, and sometimes interrupt a conversation to tell me how much they love it, which I think is pretty rude! I realise it's people trying to be friendly, but it gets old quickly.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I can totally relate to your original post, OP - I am happy to be where my husband is, but I do sometimes feel unhappy, which surprised me. I'm still not working (although I will be in the next month or so), and I don't think that's helped. Add to that that I moved in to where my husband already lives and the fact that he still does all the social activities that he did before, and ..yeah..it can be tough.

Here's hoping things get easier!

L

[Mr. Borkström 63]

Ah, she's already getting you acclimated to the yinz-speak!

I have friends who live in the PGH. It's a great town with an interesting history and a heavy sense of DIY. There's also a great crafty/artist scene.

DIY? "Do It Yourself"? And yeah, sorry for the yinzer talk. I think one of my wife's greatest fears is I'll end up speaking like one of the locals. She really applies herself to not sound like a yinzer when we're talking on Skype. lol When I was there (July 2010), sometimes it was really hard to understand what people were saying. When my wife's son and mom were talking for example, I had to really listen and think for a while before i figured out what they were saying.

You're right in that moving to a new place is an opportunity to reinvent oneself if you choose to do so. Maybe if it's see n not so much as a challenge, but as an opportunity helps?

I see it as both. Some things i worry about, other things I look forward to.

What has been exported of American culture internationally is often heavily exaggerated. That isn't to say that some of the stereotypes are completely false, but for all the extremes, most of the country is in the middle just trying to carve out a life for themselves/their loved ones.

Yeah, that makes sense. Just like the vast majority of the people on this planet of ours I'm sure.

In my limited experience it's the little difference you notice. My wife probably got a good laugh when I was trying to open the bedroom window in her house but couldn't cause I couldn't figure out how the window latch worked.

Another thing I noticed was how quickly you get immersed in the language of the other culture. Or well, at least for me, how fast I got immersed in English. I am good at English, I always have been. But it was weird to realize how quickly English "took over". I was writing a lot of e-mails and such to friends and family, and quite often I caught myself wondering "how do you say this in Swedish? How do you say that in Swedish?"

To get back to the topic of the thread... I'm not sure how much the shoe will be on the other foot. I'm sure it will be different for different aspects of life. Some things will be better, some things will be worse.

[BirdyGirl85 23]

My husband definitely did not move to the U.S. because U.S. offers a better life. He moved here for me. We just thought in the end it would be a lot easier for him to adjust living in the U.S. then me living in Finland, for a few reasons. Even though I know what's like to live in Finland, I have spent a total of nine months there. I think it's true that women have a harder time adjusting to life in a new country then men. My husband doesn't really miss a whole lot from Finland, he misses friends and family, but he said he doesn't really miss the country itself. But I do realize what he gave up, it's hard to move away from friends and family...

[Marilyn. 340]

I really don't miss living in Canada and really don't have a desire to move back there. I would like to move closer though like to Washington or Oregon so I could be closer to my family, whom I miss a lot.

[Shirley Ann 6]

I just want to say that I much appreciated reading this thread. I can identify with much that was said and Kathryn's post was exceptional. There are adjustments with any move of course but leaving all that is familiar and comfortable has more side affects than probably most of us realized. Realistically we couldn't expect to not experience some, or even a lot of emotional turmoil, especially during the first few months while still dealing with our AOS etc. on top of everything else.

The first year of any marriage has its adjustments and challenges.. we who left home and Country behind just have more than the average newly weds. Remembering why we made the choice and holding close the memory of what brought us together in the first place, our love and dedication to each other, will help us all make it through the rough times. This is just the beginning of the rest of our lives and it will only get better for all of us.. That is my hope and my wish for everyone here.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Shirley Ann

[alizon 77]

I'm (hoping to) move from Sweden's 6th biggest town (135,000 people) to America's 13th biggest city (Pittsburgh, PA). The weird thing is our Swedish public transportation system is much, MUCH better than Pittsburgh's. This worries me. I'm 36 and I don't have a drivers license. All my life I've never needed one, I've gotten by just fine without a car. In America people think you're either mad or destitute or both if you don't have a car - you need one to get by (at least this is how it seems to be, maybe this is just prejudice on my part).

*raises hand* American adult who has never owned a car here! It is hard for me to relate to not having a license though. Even living in a city where I depend 100% on public transit, I would feel trapped if I didn't have my license and the ability to rent a car.

[CarolAnn&Eddy 12]

Reading this thread has been very interesting to say the least.. Lots of view points and I think it is wonderful! I am an American, living in Oregon and my fiance lives in BC, Canada. We are mailing off our K-1 visa petition this week, so we are just starting this process. However, we have discussed a lot about where we wanted to live before we made the decision. I own my own home, have a better income than him, have a couple small children so we made the decision to live here. I starting thinking about the finances of the visa and things after reading the discussions here, I realized that I am taking care of most of the fees and such for his visa. Not once did I think about it before reading it here. I just knew that I was the one in our partnership that could afford it and we were both doing what we could to reach our end goal of being together.

I have been to Canada several times spending weeks at a time with him and I get some of the same things some of you guys are talking about, while I am there. Comments in the grocery store about my "accent" (however, I don't think I have one, but the Canadians do! lol), why not move up there because it is sooo much better than the US, and so on.

As an American, I was kind of feeling stereotyped that "we" were all assuming our country was the best out there and people should be grateful to live here. I definitely don't feel that way and I know that most the people I know don't either. I would have to say that is not an "nationwide opinion" but more of the individual opinions of certain people.

I know my fiance will be giving up so much to come here and live, but I am as well. It is what you do to be together with the person that you love so much and want to spend the rest of your life with. We are lucky however, that his home town and mine are only about 11hrs driving apart. Who knows, we may end up living in Canada after my kids are grown. There are things I love about both countries and things that I could do without.

I do agree though that this is a good place to talk about the frustrations and such instead of letting them affect a relationship you have worked so hard for.

Good luck!

[Kathryn41 3,205]

One judgmental post that contributes nothing to the discussion and comes across as 'trolling' or 'baiting' has been removed. If you cannot contribute something constructive to the discussion, then do not contribute anything at all.

[cookiewaffle 1]

Great topic to discuss on.

I am also one of the beneficiary who paid for all the fees for K1, as my fiance is not financially stable.

We are about to file for K1 visa next month, in the midst of preparing some paperwork.

Honestly, i have been weighing the advantages and disadvantages of going over to USA to be with him.

No matter which angle i think, the only advantage is to be with him because i love him deeply.

Besides that, everything is to my disadvantages.

I do not understand why some people feel that foreigners are making use of US citizen to gain GC.

My fiance's brother girl commented that i am using him to get to US. I have totally no idea why will she say that, since i only spent 3hrs with her when i went to visit my fiance last summer.

It kinda pissed me off when my fiance told me about it, also felt sad because i was viewed in such a way.

Why should i get this kind of treatment?

I have a great and comfortable life in Singapore, do not have to lay hands on housework & cooking.

Have a great job and comfortable salary, living in the midst of one of the most expensive country in Asia- Singapore.

Strong and great transport system, comparable to Japan. Best is to get anywhere in Singapore from an end to other end in just one hour, since it is a small city. Thus it shows that i am giving up everything i have here to move to a country side place which i couldn't access around easily and no job as well.

What I can get in Singapore, i cannot get in USA. I cannot think of anything i can get in USA, that i cannot get here, only HIM.

The path of K1 visa is a big decision and step for me, seriously.

I have no idea what is the road ahead and the hurdles i have to go through, which i had established here.

I don't think i can shop till i drop when i am in USA or travel around to other countries as i used to, because of the initial unemployment when i get there. Also unsure if i can ever get a job there. Unlike in Singapore, if i am jobless, i still can get one easily in a month.

Now, all i can depend is my life long savings to tide through the times over there.

Edited April 16, 2012 by cookiewaffle

[afoyoswa 178]

So, if I'm getting this right: a beneficiary from a country with a standard of living close to or better than the U.S. = potentially resentful/deprived/preoccupied with missing everything, and a beneficiary from a country with a lower standard of living = grateful/happy/vastly improved and better life?

I realize there were a lot of "often"s and other qualifiers in there, but wow, this was really sobering. My personal viewpoint is that all beneficiaries, regardless of what their life was like pre-U.S., fall somewhere between these two ends of the spectrum, but I hadn't realized how much the implied inequality of this whole visa process (including but not limited to the term "beneficiary") had subtly shifted my thinking more toward the "grateful/happy" end with regard to my fiance. So, this was immensely worthwhile to read. Let's see-- the U.S. can give him: job/education opportunities, lots of entertainment options, convenience, reliable infrastructure, and me, and his country can give him: a vibrant culture rich in tradition where he has a sense of belonging and purpose and where little things like power outages, transportation difficulties, or political corruption are not enough to seriously detract from the joy of family and community life. If it weren't for me, his country would be ahead by a landslide, and our long-range plan is actually to settle there. There's no real way to quantify any of this, because you can't put a price tag on any of the really important things in life, but having a sense of loss coming to the U.S. is certainly not limited to Canadians and others experiencing economic losses.

[TBoneTX 45,543]

One oft-overlooked financial aspect -- which, mercifully, seems to have tailed off as a percentage of regular VJ threads -- is that the couple MUST have the fees to pay for AOS. The travels back & forth between countries, the petition fees, and the visa & medical fees are substantial enough, and once the visa is granted and the beneficiary has arrived, too many couples seem to think that "it's over" and they'll live happily ever after. No, man -- there are the AOS, ROC, & citizenship fees. The couple -- or either member of it -- must be prepared to pay for these things when they're due or are optimally to be paid for, si man.

Besides all that, marriage is expensive, sigh man -- children, even more so. And, barring a political miracle in the U.S. on all governmental levels, taxes ain't gonna go down, no man.

[*Snowdrop* 604]

There's no real way to quantify any of this, because you can't put a price tag on any of the really important things in life, but having a sense of loss coming to the U.S. is certainly not limited to Canadians and others experiencing economic losses.

I think most of the sense of loss being experienced by the "beneficiaries" in this post is much more than economic - I mentioned missing my job - but it's not the money that I miss (well, that too) but it's more that I spent over 15 years working hard towards a particular career goal and I had a job that gave me a little glow inside when I walked through the office doors each morning. I loved my colleagues and I felt a real commitment to the company I was working for. It was a huge part of my identity in the way that sometimes people leaving the military have to adjust to the difference in civilian life. This was just an extra thing for me on top of all the other emigrating pressures.

However, I agree, the loss of your 'home' is not exclusive to those from richer countries - I'm sure most of us are going through the same feelings of loss. Although I imagine for those who need to send money back to their families in their homeland it might give a comforting sense of purpose. For my situation, I cling to the thought that we did the right thing for my step-daughters and their happiness to have their father present and active in their lives through their high school experience.

Besides all that, marriage is expensive, sigh man -- children, even more so. And, barring a political miracle in the U.S. on all governmental levels, taxes ain't gonna go down, no man.

This is so true. Plus the traveling doesn't really stop. I've been back to the UK 4 times in the last year. And since we've had a baby, which is my parents' only grandchild (I'm an only child too,) we want to visit even more. Trying to get at least one more trip in before she turns two-years-old, as the thought of the cost of the flight doubling is very worrying. If I fly back for a visit in May the flight will be $900, in July it will be over $2000. Agghhhhhh

[CentaursLady 4]

I think most of the sense of loss being experienced by the "beneficiaries" in this post is much more than economic - I mentioned missing my job - but it's not the money that I miss (well, that too) but it's more that I spent over 15 years working hard towards a particular career goal and I had a job that gave me a little glow inside when I walked through the office doors each morning. I loved my colleagues and I felt a real commitment to the company I was working for. It was a huge part of my identity in the way that sometimes people leaving the military have to adjust to the difference in civilian life. This was just an extra thing for me on top of all the other emigrating pressures.

Very true!! The staff I managed at my position I had were so much like family. You spend 8-10 hours a day with these people, more than your spouse at times. You know about their families, thier ups and downs, and was a very close support network. So when your blood family, work family, friends you had, all of a sudden dissapear out of your life in a matter of days (not that I'm on the phone ALOT! LOL), then are thousands of miles away to an area that some days you dont know which way points North, can be very daunting.

I think its a shock to the system when suddenly you wake up (before you have steady work, if thats the case) and you have no normalacy and schedule to live by.

You have to completely change your life.. like being reborn in a way. Specially when your middle age and you are more set in a way of being. I have live in many cities in Canada, so moving us not unknown to me. But I think the difference is that any decision that was made was mine and mine only. If I made an error, then I had only myself to blame. When you become connected to this person in your life you choose to be with, its now everything becomes a discussion on what to do, how to do it, when to do it and why we are doing it. And yes decisions become longer to execute

I think an important factor to think about is ways to make use of the time you suddenly have that is new to you. I have fallen back to a hobby of decorating and crochet, which I havent done in years. I just bought a bunch of scrapbooking goodies (God, now I sound more American) so I can create books for gifts to my kids when they were babies. A keepsake for them to have now that they are adults. This project I'm sure will drive me crazy, but will be fullfilling.

And that may be one of the keys to help in transition. Finding a few different things to make time go by more pleasant when the SO is at work.

[alizon 77]

So, if I'm getting this right: a beneficiary from a country with a standard of living close to or better than the U.S. = potentially resentful/deprived/preoccupied with missing everything, and a beneficiary from a country with a lower standard of living = grateful/happy/vastly improved and better life?

...

There's no real way to quantify any of this, because you can't put a price tag on any of the really important things in life, but having a sense of loss coming to the U.S. is certainly not limited to Canadians and others experiencing economic losses.

I think this is a rather selective reading of all of these posts. Seems to me like most people are talking about cultural/familial/personal identity losses rather than simply economic. And I think the whole thesis from the very first post is that neither beneficiaries from more developed nor less developed countries (relative to the US) should have to feel like they have received the "gift" of coming to America from their spouses. There is a legitimate sense of loss for beneficiaries from both types of countries, and it's not just economic loss for those coming from more developed countries.

Edited April 16, 2012 by alizon