Attorney refused my case HELP!

[tam2 0]

Hello all!

I went to a top immigration lawyer today to file for my sons to join me here in US. I realize that I shouldve filed sooner as the older son turns 21 in June but needed money so had to wait. I thought it would be ok as long as he filed the I 130. He says wont be filed by then so thats not an option. What he said next really blew my mind.

Gained my naturalization 1/2011 and I am told for 5 years after gaining USC status a person can lose their naturalization rights and it is happening more and more! He suspects my marriage (from 2003) is suspect as I am living apart from my wife, out of state as there are no jobs. I explained that true we dont get along as we used to, but we remain married. He claims I had a stokes interview and that INS was suspicious then (2004) which was news to me. He said that because my sons never met or spoke to my wife it is strange. Informed me INS will investigate and it could be a big problem. I think he suspects there is something going on between my ex and me, because he kept sayin it doesnt smell right. "tell me the truth", what about your ex? I felt like I was on trial! He refused the case because he believes something not right and his priority is to protect my citizenship. I guess some of my background seems a bit odd but it was not a marriage scam. My wife also refuses to sign affadavit of support and he said thats another red flag. i didnt know she HAD to sign it if I made enough money for all of us but he says she does! He suggested I divorce and wait and file for my sons. I really dont know what to do here. Its too late to file for my oldest boy now and he will age out. I dont want to lose my citizenship. I really wasnt plannng on divorce but if she wont sign affadavit what choice do I have?

Please understand this man is a TOP immigration attorney, thats all he does so I am thinking I am doomed here.

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

If this is what you hear from a top immigration attorney then we spobably won't know better. But some questions that might help

How old where the kids when you got married ?

What country are you from ?

What other red flags are there in the marriage that caused the original stokes interview?

[tam2 0]

If this is what you hear from a top immigration attorney then we spobably won't know better. But some questions that might help

How old where the kids when you got married ?

What country are you from ?

What other red flags are there in the marriage that caused the original stokes interview?

Thank you for your reply. My children were 10 and 12 when I married my wife. I dont even know if there was a stokes interview, dont even know what that is. He said because my wife and I had 2 interviews initially when going for my green card that means a stokes was done. Red flags are, why am i living out of state (due to need for work), why wont she sign affadavit of support (she doesnt want responsibility for 10 years), why didnt my kids ever speak to her ( because phone cards cost a fortune and they didnt have internet service where they lived in Georgia), and application for naturalization was denied in 2008 as I was working out of state at that time and they told me to file through state I was living in or move back and reapply. I moved back for one year (2010) and lost just about everything due to poor pay. After the citizenship I moved back out of state to earn a living. I am now so behind in payments and now being asked why am I working out of state and not with my wife?? Obviously with the money he makes he doesnt understand that people do live apart when they need a job to earn a living. He said INS is really looking at every case closely and will question the kids in depth. (they are 19 and 20 now) One thing out of line, u r done. He was suspicious but believed me but said INS will be more suspicious and not believe me. He is concerned I could lose citizenship since INS is is getting tougher and changing laws all the time.

[aaron2020 11,651]

Go get a second opinion from a different law office. Then, go get a third opinion from a third law office.

Your case seems suspicious to one attorney. We don't know if he is good or not. The best thing for you is to ask a few different attorneys and see if they say similar or different things. Your situation may not be as bad as the first attorney thinks.

[tam2 0]

Go get a second opinion from a different law office. Then, go get a third opinion from a third law office.

Your case seems suspicious to one attorney. We don't know if he is good or not. The best thing for you is to ask a few different attorneys and see if they say similar or different things. Your situation may not be as bad as the first attorney thinks.

Thank you and I agree. Now that I have cleared my head ( i think i went into shock when he said this!), I realized there was never a stokes interview..my wife only went with me once and we were NEVER seperated!

Do you know if my wife has to sign this affadavit of support? She wont, I asked her years ago when I was PR and she simply doesnt want the responsibility for 10 years.(or i would've filed then) I can understand and so I waited to become a USC figuring I could sign by myself as the income covers her,me, and the kids...i dont need her income to qualify. If she has to sign, I am dead in the water !

Thanks again

[aaron2020 11,651]

Thank you and I agree. Now that I have cleared my head ( i think i went into shock when he said this!), I realized there was never a stokes interview..my wife only went with me once and we were NEVER seperated!

Do you know if my wife has to sign this affadavit of support? She wont, I asked her years ago when I was PR and she simply doesnt want the responsibility for 10 years.(or i would've filed then) I can understand and so I waited to become a USC figuring I could sign by myself as the income covers her,me, and the kids...i dont need her income to qualify. If she has to sign, I am dead in the water !

Thanks again

If you don't need your wife as a household member on the Affidavit of Support, then you don't need her to sign anything.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I'm beginning to see this attorney's angle.

Your attorney is correct that your US citizenship can be revoked if it's determined ex post facto that your marriage was a sham. Your permanent resident status was based on that marriage, and your naturalization was based on that permanent resident status. If it's determined that you obtained permanent resident status fraudulently then every immigration benefit you've gotten since then can be taken away.

Most people are not interviewed twice for a green card. If you weren't separated then it wasn't a Stokes interview, but a second interview is still not typical. Your interview was in 2004. Four years later you apply for naturalization. You were eligible to apply only three years after becoming a permanent resident only because you acquired permanent resident status through your marriage to a US citizen, and you were still married to that US citizen. However, you applied in a state that your spouse didn't live in, so your naturalization was denied. You moved back to the state your wife lives in two years later, not that it matters at this point because you'd have been eligible to apply for naturalization without the marriage after five years. This time your naturalization is approved. Once again, you've left the state where your wife lives while still remaining married to her. Now you want to petition for your kids, but you're filing (again) from a state your wife doesn't live in, and your wife isn't willing to sign an affidavit of support. Technically, you're still married so any money you earn is community property. Likewise with any money your wife earns. I can understand why your attorney would think this might look suspicious to USCIS. The totality of the circumstances do look like a marriage that was entered into primarily for the purpose of circumventing immigration law, and you're essentially giving them more evidence than they've already got that this might be the case.

Your attorney sounds like a rare gem. He's giving you his honest opinion instead of taking your money and telling you everything will be just fine even if he strongly suspects it won't be. By all means, consult with some other attorneys, but don't be overly critical of this one. He was being honest, and honesty from an attorney is not a common virtue.

[tam2 0]

I'm beginning to see this attorney's angle.

Your attorney is correct that your US citizenship can be revoked if it's determined ex post facto that your marriage was a sham. Your permanent resident status was based on that marriage, and your naturalization was based on that permanent resident status. If it's determined that you obtained permanent resident status fraudulently then every immigration benefit you've gotten since then can be taken away.

Most people are not interviewed twice for a green card. If you weren't separated then it wasn't a Stokes interview, but a second interview is still not typical. Your interview was in 2004. Four years later you apply for naturalization. You were eligible to apply only three years after becoming a permanent resident only because you acquired permanent resident status through your marriage to a US citizen, and you were still married to that US citizen. However, you applied in a state that your spouse didn't live in, so your naturalization was denied. You moved back to the state your wife lives in two years later, not that it matters at this point because you'd have been eligible to apply for naturalization without the marriage after five years. This time your naturalization is approved. Once again, you've left the state where your wife lives while still remaining married to her. Now you want to petition for your kids, but you're filing (again) from a state your wife doesn't live in, and your wife isn't willing to sign an affidavit of support. Technically, you're still married so any money you earn is community property. Likewise with any money your wife earns. I can understand why your attorney would think this might look suspicious to USCIS. The totality of the circumstances do look like a marriage that was entered into primarily for the purpose of circumventing immigration law, and you're essentially giving them more evidence than they've already got that this might be the case.

Your attorney sounds like a rare gem. He's giving you his honest opinion instead of taking your money and telling you everything will be just fine even if he strongly suspects it won't be. By all means, consult with some other attorneys, but don't be overly critical of this one. He was being honest, and honesty from an attorney is not a common virtue.

You really summed up what he said to me..spoke with my wife last night and she said there was only one time she was at immigration with me, so I can put that to rest. I know it may sound like a possible sham but how is it accounted for that we lived together 2 years and then married and remain married for 9 years? I know plenty of people that work out of state for income, you do what you have to in this economy.

As I said, this attorney is very well respected with many awards and he made it clear that he will protect my citizenship first and foremost. He said he believes me BUT USCIS is tougher and tougher and there are red flags. He also stated that when my sons are interviewed they investigate everything over in my home country. (he stated a lot of people maintain a relationship with the ex planning to reunite!) So I clearly understand his position and respect him for it.

My problem is wanting my sons here, I didnt marry a woman I didnt love and stay with her for 11 years (and knew her for 2 yrs before that)to have my citizenship revoked cuz "it doesnt smell right" as he said.

He suggested divorce and my wife told me thats fine if thats what it takes to get my boys here but she will not accept responsiblity for them at her age. (58) I can understand that too.

My problem is my sons do not understand as they planned on coming her and I just dont know which way is the best way.

You have a very unbiased honest view and would appreciate if you could elaborate on my response.

Thank you so much!

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

You really summed up what he said to me..spoke with my wife last night and she said there was only one time she was at immigration with me, so I can put that to rest. I know it may sound like a possible sham but how is it accounted for that we lived together 2 years and then married and remain married for 9 years? I know plenty of people that work out of state for income, you do what you have to in this economy.

As I said, this attorney is very well respected with many awards and he made it clear that he will protect my citizenship first and foremost. He said he believes me BUT USCIS is tougher and tougher and there are red flags. He also stated that when my sons are interviewed they investigate everything over in my home country. (he stated a lot of people maintain a relationship with the ex planning to reunite!) So I clearly understand his position and respect him for it.

My problem is wanting my sons here, I didnt marry a woman I didnt love and stay with her for 11 years (and knew her for 2 yrs before that)to have my citizenship revoked cuz "it doesnt smell right" as he said.

He suggested divorce and my wife told me thats fine if thats what it takes to get my boys here but she will not accept responsiblity for them at her age. (58) I can understand that too.

My problem is my sons do not understand as they planned on coming her and I just dont know which way is the best way.

You have a very unbiased honest view and would appreciate if you could elaborate on my response.

Thank you so much!

You may have been with your wife for two years prior to marriage, but the truth is that you have not been with her for the 9 years of your marriage. You've spent the bulk of that time living in another state. That's not a marriage, and your attorney is right to be concerned that's how USCIS would view it. Did you keep USCIS notified of your new address while you were a permanent resident? Did you know that you were required to do so? If you didn't then it will look to USCIS like you were trying to hide the fact that you weren't living with your wife.

Your attorney is recommending that you divorce now in order to reduce the likelihood that they'll take a closer look at your marriage when you file any new petitions. His reasoning is that if you're divorced then it provides you with an excuse for why you weren't living with your wife because your marriage was on the rocks. The downside is that it's also an indicator that the marriage might have been a sham from the start.

Here's the deal...

There's a particular type of green card scam that your attorney believes USCIS might be suspicious of. It involves an alien whose primary motive is to get their spouse and family to the US, but they don't have a legal path to do so. So the alien divorces their spouse, hooks up with a US citizen and eventually marries them. After 3 years they apply for US citizenship. Once the citizenship is approved then they divorce the US citizen spouse and petitions for their original spouse and family. It is for this very reason that someone who obtains permanent resident status based on marriage to a US citizen cannot petition for a spouse for five years, even if they've already become a US citizen.

USCIS has a fair amount of discretion with each immigration benefit you apply for, but they usually don't deny a benefit without some evidence of negative factors. Trust me - they've been collecting evidence ever since you originally applied for a green card, and there are circumstances in your case that make it look like you've been following the playbook for the type of green card scam I described above. Not living with your spouse for such a long period of time is strong evidence that the marriage was for convenience and not for the purpose of setting up a life together. Filing petitions for your kids now is one more step in the direction of what they suspect is your ultimate goal, which is filing for your ex-wife. If your goal was to get your kids here and remain married to your current wife then you could have filed for them years ago. Your wife could have also filed for them because you married her before they were 18 years old. Neither of you filed for them before now, which is going to make it look like you had an agenda and a schedule to follow. If USCIS collects enough negative evidence to confirm their suspicions then they'll pull the rug out from under you - your citizenship will be revoked and you'll be placed in removal proceedings.

How long had you been married when you applied for the green card? Did you initially get a conditional green card? Did you have to apply to remove those conditions, and were you interviewed then? What sort of questions were asked about your marriage at the green card interview, the removal of conditions interview, and the naturalization interview? The sort of questions they ask can often be a strong indicator of the evidence they are compiling.

I can't make any recommendations on how you should proceed. I do think you should get opinions from multiple attorneys, as Aaron suggested. I also think you should give serious consideration to what your current attorney is advising.

[tam2 0]

You may have been with your wife for two years prior to marriage, but the truth is that you have not been with her for the 9 years of your marriage. You've spent the bulk of that time living in another state. That's not a marriage, and your attorney is right to be concerned that's how USCIS would view it. Did you keep USCIS notified of your new address while you were a permanent resident? Did you know that you were required to do so? If you didn't then it will look to USCIS like you were trying to hide the fact that you weren't living with your wife.

Your attorney is recommending that you divorce now in order to reduce the likelihood that they'll take a closer look at your marriage when you file any new petitions. His reasoning is that if you're divorced then it provides you with an excuse for why you weren't living with your wife because your marriage was on the rocks. The downside is that it's also an indicator that the marriage might have been a sham from the start.

Here's the deal...

There's a particular type of green card scam that your attorney believes USCIS might be suspicious of. It involves an alien whose primary motive is to get their spouse and family to the US, but they don't have a legal path to do so. So the alien divorces their spouse, hooks up with a US citizen and eventually marries them. After 3 years they apply for US citizenship. Once the citizenship is approved then they divorce the US citizen spouse and petitions for their original spouse and family. It is for this very reason that someone who obtains permanent resident status based on marriage to a US citizen cannot petition for a spouse for five years, even if they've already become a US citizen.

USCIS has a fair amount of discretion with each immigration benefit you apply for, but they usually don't deny a benefit without some evidence of negative factors. Trust me - they've been collecting evidence ever since you originally applied for a green card, and there are circumstances in your case that make it look like you've been following the playbook for the type of green card scam I described above. Not living with your spouse for such a long period of time is strong evidence that the marriage was for convenience and not for the purpose of setting up a life together. Filing petitions for your kids now is one more step in the direction of what they suspect is your ultimate goal, which is filing for your ex-wife. If your goal was to get your kids here and remain married to your current wife then you could have filed for them years ago. Your wife could have also filed for them because you married her before they were 18 years old. Neither of you filed for them before now, which is going to make it look like you had an agenda and a schedule to follow. If USCIS collects enough negative evidence to confirm their suspicions then they'll pull the rug out from under you - your citizenship will be revoked and you'll be placed in removal proceedings.

How long had you been married when you applied for the green card? Did you initially get a conditional green card? Did you have to apply to remove those conditions, and were you interviewed then? What sort of questions were asked about your marriage at the green card interview, the removal of conditions interview, and the naturalization interview? The sort of questions they ask can often be a strong indicator of the evidence they are compiling.

I can't make any recommendations on how you should proceed. I do think you should get opinions from multiple attorneys, as Aaron suggested. I also think you should give serious consideration to what your current attorney is advising.

Thank you for your reply, you sound like my attorney! He said exactly what you said. In response to your questions, my former wife divorced me when I came to US in 1998. I married my current wife in 2003 after living together for 2 years. Everything went smoothly with the GC no problems at all. I relocated in 5/2007 for work. I returned numerous times for visits. I moved back in 2008, couldnt find work, went back to out of state job later in 2008. (as long as I was making money my wife didnt care where I was, LOL) Then I moved back in 2010 for the period of a little over a year. I was during this time I got my citizenship. We almost went bankrupt during that year. I had to go back and she said, go, make the money! Yes they USCIS knew where I was and what I was doing. I had an attorney there for the naturalization and it went smoothly.

Is the marraige still strong? No, we are more friends now than lovers. We get along but lets put it this way, I miss her more than she misses me!

So if we divorce we will still remain very close friends, there is no problems that way.

i know you cant make recomendation how I should proceed, I just cant understand how I am going to file for my sons and trying to make sense out of it. I work out of state to earn money. Remain married and I look suspious. Divorce and work out of state, OK. Strange.

[tam2 0]

Thank you for your reply, you sound like my attorney! He said exactly what you said. In response to your questions, my former wife divorced me when I came to US in 1998. I married my current wife in 2003 after living together for 2 years. Everything went smoothly with the GC no problems at all. I relocated in 5/2007 for work. I returned numerous times for visits. I moved back in 2008, couldnt find work, went back to out of state job later in 2008. (as long as I was making money my wife didnt care where I was, LOL) Then I moved back in 2010 for the period of a little over a year. I was during this time I got my citizenship. We almost went bankrupt during that year. I had to go back and she said, go, make the money! Yes they USCIS knew where I was and what I was doing. I had an attorney there for the naturalization and it went smoothly.

Is the marraige still strong? No, we are more friends now than lovers. We get along but lets put it this way, I miss her more than she misses me!

So if we divorce we will still remain very close friends, there is no problems that way.

i know you cant make recomendation how I should proceed, I just cant understand how I am going to file for my sons and trying to make sense out of it. I work out of state to earn money. Remain married and I look suspious. Divorce and work out of state, OK. Strange. What I dont understand is I have had my naturalization for 18 months now. So if I move for divorce and get that say in a year, isnt that a red flag? Just wondering.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Thank you for your reply, you sound like my attorney! He said exactly what you said. In response to your questions, my former wife divorced me when I came to US in 1998. I married my current wife in 2003 after living together for 2 years. Everything went smoothly with the GC no problems at all. I relocated in 5/2007 for work. I returned numerous times for visits. I moved back in 2008, couldnt find work, went back to out of state job later in 2008. (as long as I was making money my wife didnt care where I was, LOL) Then I moved back in 2010 for the period of a little over a year. I was during this time I got my citizenship. We almost went bankrupt during that year. I had to go back and she said, go, make the money! Yes they USCIS knew where I was and what I was doing. I had an attorney there for the naturalization and it went smoothly.

Is the marraige still strong? No, we are more friends now than lovers. We get along but lets put it this way, I miss her more than she misses me!

So if we divorce we will still remain very close friends, there is no problems that way.

i know you cant make recomendation how I should proceed, I just cant understand how I am going to file for my sons and trying to make sense out of it. I work out of state to earn money. Remain married and I look suspious. Divorce and work out of state, OK. Strange.

There really isn't anything strange about it. It's pretty straightforward. I live in California. Brook Shields lives in New York. Anything at all suspicious about that? No, not in the least. What if we were married? Well, people would naturally wonder why we live apart. Ok, her career is in New York and mine is in California. Now people are going to wonder why we can't find some kind of compromise so we can live together. Ok, she won't make as much money in California and I won't make as much money in New York. Now people are going to conclude that the marriage was for convenience.

In your case it goes farther than that. Your wife appears to be indifferent to the fact that you don't live together, and is concerned only about the income you're getting. To an immigration officer there would be skyrockets going off. Through their eyes, you married her to get a green card, and she married you to improve her standard of living. In other words, it's a business arrangement rather than a marriage.

You've said it yourself - there's no real marriage there. Get divorced and move on. Give it a little time after the divorce before you petition for your kids. If you ever petition for your ex-wife then all of this will probably get dredged up and thrown back in your face by USCIS.

Your attorney is looking at this from a practical perspective. USCIS doesn't have enough evidence of fraud yet or else they would have denied your citizenship application. Your lawyer doesn't want you giving them any more evidence than they've already got.