If only these students had been allowed to protect themselves

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If civil rights apply to people in private establishments of public accommodation, then why don't constitutional rights also apply?

Because that rips away the foundation of Libertarianism. Private property is the ultimate right and no government or even interpretation of the Constitution can penetrate that absolute right.

[^_^ 5,021]

Because that rips away the foundation of Libertarianism. Private property is the ultimate right and no government or even interpretation of the Constitution can penetrate that absolute right.

I dare you to find the word libertarian in the constitution.

[SMOKE 1,426]

Because the larger argument here is whether or not private establishments can prohibit weapons or not. They can, but I'd like to hear your answer if you think that they cannot deny you your 2nd Amendment right.

If you know that your employer or the places you frequent prohibit weapons, and you're that concerned for your personal safety at those places, it would make sense that you would be thinking of alternative ways of protection.

i don't carry @ work @ resturants @ shopping malls @ anywhere that has a no weapons sign...enough about me. the question you're trying to dodge was:

Edited to ask- What are the "far more effective" solutions?

asked in response to this post:

Carrying a gun, or any lethal weapon on your person is not the most effective way to protect yourself and others in most situations. There are far more effective ways to prevent such tragedies from happening.

so you got an answer or are just going to keep changing the subject & saying stupid sh!t like your resturant scenario?

[^_^ 5,021]

You can defecate and hope your attacker is repulsed by the odor.

Just make sure you always eat lots of beans to maximize malodor.

[SMOKE 1,426]

You can defecate and hope your attacker is repulsed by the odor.

Just make sure you always eat lots of beans to maximize malodor.

that'd be more effective than whinning on a message board.

eta: oh no. he's posting. i'm in trouble now.

he's taking forever...i bet i'm getting linked too.

Edited April 4, 2012 by SMOKE

[one...two...tree 2,762]

i don't carry @ work @ resturants @ shopping malls @ anywhere that has a no weapons sign...enough about me. the question you're trying to dodge was:

And so if are concerned about your personal safety, what other methods protection do you use when you can't carry a weapon?

......

I could go on and explain more effective ways to prevent tragedies like the one in the OP - measures, like securing the campus by containment, etc., but I doubt that's going to convince you any. It doesn't take much to envision the kind of logistical nightmare if everyone were allowed to carry a gun everywhere - whether we would all be safer. There are certain times and situations where a gun is the best personal protection, but in most situations, it is either not viable option (like the above you mentioned) or would most likely create more problems than it would supposedly solve. And ironically the places you mentioned above are the places where you are most likely going to be a victim of random violence.

[xebec 195]

Because the larger argument here is whether or not private establishments can prohibit weapons or not. They can, but I'd like to hear your answer if you think that they cannot deny you your 2nd Amendment right.

If you know that your employer or the places you frequent prohibit weapons, and you're that concerned for your personal safety at those places, it would make sense that you would be thinking of alternative ways of protection.

That doesn't bother my "libertarian' sensibilities- nobody can deny your unalienable rights based on their control of their private property. What they can do is ask you to leave, and if you fail to comply, charge you with criminal trespass.

[SMOKE 1,426]

And so if are concerned about your personal safety, what other methods protection do you use when you can't carry a weapon?

......

I could go on and explain more effective ways to prevent tragedies like the one in the OP - measures, like securing the campus by containment, etc., but I doubt that's going to convince you any. It doesn't take much to envision the kind of logistical nightmare if everyone were allowed to carry a gun everywhere - whether we would all be safer. There are certain times and situations where a gun is the best personal protection, but in most situations, it is either not viable option (like the above you mentioned) or would most likely create more problems than it would supposedly solve. And ironically the places you mentioned above are the places where you are most likely going to be a victim of random violence.

i'm fairly well equipped to deal w/ a physical confrontation. i have a ccl. but, i just got it for the novelty when they passed the law here. actually i don't carry anywhere. i don't feel a need to. i try to avoid places i know problems are likely to arise.

secured campus...thats a start...keep going.

[xebec 195]

And so if are concerned about your personal safety, what other methods protection do you use when you can't carry a weapon?

......

I could go on and explain more effective ways to prevent tragedies like the one in the OP - measures, like securing the campus by containment, etc., but I doubt that's going to convince you any. It doesn't take much to envision the kind of logistical nightmare if everyone were allowed to carry a gun everywhere - whether we would all be safer. There are certain times and situations where a gun is the best personal protection, but in most situations, it is either not viable option (like the above you mentioned) or would most likely create more problems than it would supposedly solve. And ironically the places you mentioned above are the places where you are most likely going to be a victim of random violence.

Would you "contain" the campus before or after the shooting started? I don't get it......I guess I'm simple.

Listen, the logistical nightmare of "allowing" everyone to carry a gun...there are many states where that is virtually true already- shall issue concealed carry states. No logistical nightmare has materialized. Whose shoulders does this logistical nighmare fall upon? Nobody even knows when I'm carrying a weapon. The "logistics" of this are completely my own affair. And carrying my pistol never creates more problems than it solves....it usually does neither.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Would you "contain" the campus before or after the shooting started? I don't get it......I guess I'm simple.

Listen, the logistical nightmare of "allowing" everyone to carry a gun...there are many states where that is virtually true already- shall issue concealed carry states. No logistical nightmare has materialized. Whose shoulders does this logistical nighmare fall upon? Nobody even knows when I'm carrying a weapon. The "logistics" of this are completely my own affair. And carrying my pistol never creates more problems than it solves....it usually does neither.

*not to change the subject, but by the looks of your avatar it's obvious you totally scored a hottie. Good job.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That doesn't bother my "libertarian' sensibilities- nobody can deny your unalienable rights based on their control of their private property. What they can do is ask you to leave, and if you fail to comply, charge you with criminal trespass.

However you want to phrase it, private property rights trump 2nd Amendment right, and most establishments find it to their benefit to prohibit weapons, which means you don't have the option to protect yourself with a gun in most everyday situations.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

However you want to phrase it, private property rights trump 2nd Amendment right, and most establishments find it to their benefit to prohibit weapons, which means you don't have the option to protect yourself with a gun in most everyday situations.

So based on that post of yours do you think it's a good idea to make stricter gun laws in this country?

[SMOKE 1,426]

So based on that post of yours do you think it's a good idea to make stricter gun laws in this country?

that way what the shooter did can be double-quadruple super illegal...that'll put a stop to it.

[xebec 195]

However you want to phrase it, private property rights trump 2nd Amendment right, and most establishments find it to their benefit to prohibit weapons, which means you don't have the option to protect yourself with a gun in most everyday situations.

My point wasn't to play with words, but to point out that people do have an option, and don't surrender their unalienable rights at any time- remember, our Western Enlightement heritage values the concept that there are certain rights with which we are born, and no man or law can take away. One can choose to carry onto private property in many states, regaurdless of the sign. The owner can ask them to leave. Other states would require that you leave your gun behind- you can choose not to enter the property....no problem. I can't think of any private property that I must have access to, except my own.

[xebec 195]

*not to change the subject, but by the looks of your avatar it's obvious you totally scored a hottie. Good job.

I did indeed. Intelligent, cultured, graceful, and absolutely gorgeous..... but you already know that God Blesses Belarus in this way.