Two years to Ten Year GC..

[Justine+David 218]

I'm confused--why did you get married twice? Isn't that illegal? If the first marriage was legal, how do you have grounds to get married again? David and I had a civil ceremony in June and then a religious ceremony in September 2011, but we didn't sign any papers for the second one or file anything because we were already married. I agree with Jim--why would you rock the boat??

[Boiler 45,472]

You could only get married twice if you got divorced in between.

[Little_My 464]

Not true. In NY state one can marry the same person as many times as they want to.

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

Here are requirements for a marriage license in NY, where does it say a waviver is given for a marriage inwhich there was no divorce:

http://www.cityclerk.nyc.gov/html/marriage/license.shtml#required

Required Information

Listed below is the information you will need to fill out the Marriage License Application:

The application is an affidavit where you and your prospective spouse must list your name; current address; city, state, ZIP code and country; country of birth; date of birth; name and country of birth of your parents; Social Security number; and marital history.

When you sign the affidavit, you are making a sworn statement that there are no legal impediments to the marriage.

If you were married before, you must list all prior marriages. You must include your previous spouse's full name; the date the divorce decree was granted; and the city, state, and country where the divorce was issued.

All divorces, annulments, and dissolutions must be finalized before you apply for a new Marriage License.

You may be asked to produce the final divorce decree.

If your spouse is deceased, you must provide such spouse's full name and date of death.

Edited April 1, 2012 by LIFE'SJOURNEY

[Little_My 464]

Yes, a divorce decree is required if the previous marriage was to a different person. On that same page, in the Q&A section:

Q. Can I have both a religious and civil ceremony?

A. Yes. Many couples choose to have a civil Marriage Ceremony prior to a religious Marriage Ceremony. You may marry the same person more than once.

http://www.cityclerk.nyc.gov/html/marriage/faq.shtml#status

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

Yes, a divorce decree is required if the previous marriage was to a different person. On that same page, in the Q&A section:

Q. Can I have both a religious and civil ceremony?

A. Yes. Many couples choose to have a civil Marriage Ceremony prior to a religious Marriage Ceremony. You may marry the same person more than once.

http://www.cityclerk.nyc.gov/html/marriage/faq.shtml#status

You are mixing words, a person can have many cermonies, but an individual is only legaly married to the same individual once without a divorce. A ceremony doesn't constitue a legal marriage act, registering the marraige constitue that the ceremony is now granted to be lawful and legal.

Edited April 1, 2012 by LIFE'SJOURNEY

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

This is not the issue here. I will also attest that in NY state you can marry the same person over and over again. They will issue multiple marriage licenses to the same couple which will result in multiple marriage certificates. They do this for people who want to renew vows, etc. I read this many times when I was figuring out how to get married.

This aspect of the case is a red herring.

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

This is not the issue here. I will also attest that in NY state you can marry the same person over and over again. They will issue multiple marriage licenses to the same couple which will result in multiple marriage certificates. They do this for people who want to renew vows, etc. I read this many times when I was figuring out how to get married.

This aspect of the case is a red herring.

Again, you can have mutiple cermonies, you can obtain mutiple certs, but what does NY state actual register as the legal marriage date. If you can show a couple who has mutiple marriage dates register in NYC City Hall with mutiple dates of marriage to the same individual w/o a divorce/annulment in between than you'll can say in NY you can register a marriage without a divorce.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

So you want people to have first-hand knowledge of someone who did this? If I say my auntie Lulu did this you'll believe that? NY state will register all of the marriages. The certificate that you get when you leave the courthouse is the certified copy. No pretend documents or pretend ceremonies. I read this many times in my own searches. All of us who married in NY state read this, and came to this conclusion independently (I can think of many people, Little My and Myopia included). Like I said, this is not the issue here.

The issue is that Myopia had a religious marriage, which by NY law, is legally binding, but there is no civil record of that date. She put on her forms the date of the civil marriage, because she was afraid to be denied, and now wishes that the IO would ignore her directive there and use the date of the religious marriage (which are both legal). Personally, I don't know what would be the law here, but I think the IO was reasonable to use the date the applicant indicated on the forms. The fact of the matter is that Myopia has multiple unrecorded religious marriages and that was a big mess to unravel. This keeps things clear, and she herself wrote down in this way.

[LIFE'SJOURNEY 970]

So you want people to have first-hand knowledge of someone who did this? If I say my auntie Lulu did this you'll believe that? NY state will register all of the marriages. The certificate that you get when you leave the courthouse is the certified copy. No pretend documents or pretend ceremonies. I read this many times in my own searches. All of us who married in NY state read this, and came to this conclusion independently (I can think of many people, Little My and Myopia included). Like I said, this is not the issue here.

The issue is that Myopia had a religious marriage, which by NY law, is legally binding, but there is no civil record of that date. She put on her forms the date of the civil marriage, because she was afraid to be denied, and now wishes that the IO would ignore her directive there and use the date of the religious marriage (which are both legal). Personally, I don't know what would be the law here, but I think the IO was reasonable to use the date the applicant indicated on the forms. The fact of the matter is that Myopia has multiple unrecorded religious marriages and that was a big mess to unravel. This keeps things clear, and she herself wrote down in this way.

This piece I will address, when someone applies for a marriage license they d onot receive a certified marriage cert until after a marriage act has been performed and it is duly register in NY City Hall.

If a cermony is a religious cermony, than the performing authorize religious entity must register that marriage with city hall before the couple will receive a certified copy of their marriage license.

So no one walks out out city hall with a certified marriage certification if the marriage act has not been registered with city hall. The act of being married doesn't matter, the act can be perfomed civil, religious, or a duly legal contract written on a napkin, but NY does not issues certified marriage certs unless the marriage has been registerd.

[Myopia 93]

Hi Myopia, haven't seen you around for a while.

I'm not sure what the IO's angle is here. Section 216 of the INA is reasonably clear, as is section 25.1 of the AFM. If the immigrant is granted permanent resident status after the two year anniversary of the marriage on which the status is based then they are not supposed to be subject to section 216, and are supposed to get unconditional permanent resident status.

Section 23.5 of the AFM has this to say:

Furthermore, if the

wedding

upon which the marriage-based adjustment application is based occurred less than 2 years before the date on which adjustment is granted, the adjusting alien becomes a conditional permanent resident. See Chapter 25 of this field manual for a discussion of the procedures for seeking removal of those conditions.

So, they have to pick one of the two wedding dates to use as the basis for determining if section 216 should apply. They apparently picked the second one. I'm just wondering... If you go back now and ask them to issue a ten year green card, could the IO determine that you're essentially asking that the adjustment of status be based on a different wedding, revoke your green card as having been issued in error, and tell you to file again?

I'm thinking like bigdog here. Why rock the boat.

Hey Jim, I have just been too busy and as relates to waiting for the decision from USCIS been half waiting for a denial. As those who know my journey from beginning to end, I personally felt there were many red flags and with the rigorous interview that we had...I was half minded to start packing (I even told my husband this who got really upset with me because he felt I was being too fatalistic).

As it is I agree with you, somewhat, had the interview not been so ridiculous I would have asked about the marriage dates. She asked us about both, took copies of both certificates and had the relevant law in front of her (with supporting documents) that would have given her the clarity that she needed. I am "just asking" because that is what I do but I did wonder that hyperthetical question that you asked....is asking for a review of the marriage time a way that they could ask me to file again! That's why Im asking but Im thinking this is unchartered territory and Im quite happy with what I have. Perhaps my question comes from a desire NOT to go back to Federal Plaza and endure ANOTHER round of the same. But rocking the boat is NOT what Im aiming for at this point. lol. Thanks !

I'm confused--why did you get married twice? Isn't that illegal? If the first marriage was legal, how do you have grounds to get married again? David and I had a civil ceremony in June and then a religious ceremony in September 2011, but we didn't sign any papers for the second one or file anything because we were already married. I agree with Jim--why would you rock the boat??

Hey there, No it is not illegal in NY state. As others have mentioned, you can marry the same person over and over again with a license and a certificate. Not the same in other states. The boat has been rocked. My case wasnt simple and my husbands "big reveal" didnt help but the law is my friend and I can read and understand the law quite well..so I knew that it would be ok as long as what I was saying was true(It was).

The issue is that Myopia had a religious marriage, which by NY law, is legally binding, but there is no civil record of that date. She put on her forms the date of the civil marriage, because she was afraid to be denied, and now wishes that the IO would ignore her directive there and use the date of the religious marriage (which are both legal). Personally, I don't know what would be the law here, but I think the IO was reasonable to use the date the applicant indicated on the forms. The fact of the matter is that Myopia has multiple unrecorded religious marriages and that was a big mess to unravel. This keeps things clear, and she herself wrote down in this way.

Right. You got it! Im thinking that its not worth it as I spent a lot of time proving that I wasnt married to anyone in any place legal(because of the religious marriages done out of NY) and it seems a little too much to ask that they take the date of another religious marriage(albeit legal) because it gives me a 10 year...but I was always waiting to see which they were going to give me which is why I left it in their corner, so to speak.

[Myopia 93]

This piece I will address, when someone applies for a marriage license they d onot receive a certified marriage cert until after a marriage act has been performed and it is duly register in NY City Hall.

If a cermony is a religious cermony, than the performing authorize religious entity must register that marriage with city hall before the couple will receive a certified copy of their marriage license.

So no one walks out out city hall with a certified marriage certification if the marriage act has not been registered with city hall. The act of being married doesn't matter, the act can be perfomed civil, religious, or a duly legal contract written on a napkin, but NY does not issues certified marriage certs unless the marriage has been registerd.

Hey there,

The reason that I know so much about this particular part of the law is because it was particularly pertinent to my case. I know in NY state that religious marriages are valid as long as they are performed by an officiant of that religion, be that an Imam, Priest, or Rabbi, the marriage is not considered voided for failure to get a licence. That is exactly how the law reads. (I know it pratically by heart). Others have received federal benefits based on this law.

A 911 widow was initially denied benefits because she was deemed as not being a widow because she was not married civally. The courts ruled that she was entitiled because she and her deceased husband were married in a religious christian ceremony.

This is only in NY. There was another case of a jewish man who was married to his wife in NY legally and religiously. She got a "get" but was holding up the legal divorce because of some financial issues. Her husband married again, in NY state, in a religious ceremony and THAT subsequent marriage was considered legal. No he did not get arrested for bigamy (the last that I read) but his argument was that it was "only" religious. Not in NY state it isnt. So I give you that background so you understant why I delved so deeply into this in the first place.

NY doesnt issue certified certificates unless the marriage is done in the way that you said, or registered after but it does recognize religious marriages. You can file taxes from NY based on your religious marriage. I know this for a surity as I did this and when audited sent the religious certificate which satisfied the IRS.

Anyways you know me, Im always looking for an angle and so far its worked for me...but at this juncture..Im just going to let it rock! Thanks all. <--- Im doing the happy dance regardless.

[soteropolitana 4]

This is quite the discussion...but I think it's more straight forward than we've made it. I have to agree with a previous poster who cited Section 23.5 of the AFM: (emphasis mine)

Furthermore, if the wedding upon which the marriage-based adjustment application is based occurred less than 2 years before the date on which adjustment is granted, the adjusting alien becomes a conditional permanent resident.

I think mentioning that the first marriage was religious is what's causing the confusion. In NY, the first marriage (religious) is valid and would most likely be honored by USCIS who considers a marriage valid if it is valid in the jurisdiction(state) where it was performed (with a few exceptions: common law, proxy, etc.) However, it seems like the petitioner, for whatever reason, made the personal decision to use the second marriage as proof of a valid marriage for immigration purposes. As such, USCIS granted the petition/adjustment based on the information provided and granted the conditional green card based on that information. Simple.

Normally, use of the I-90 without a fee - for corrections, is when USCIS made a mistake like miscalculation or user-input error or errors on the card itself - - not changing the marriage that was used to approve the petition and application.

Think of this in other terms: for example, my husband and I could have legally gotten married in Greece 12 years ago, and then legally got married in Brazil last year. Both marriages are valid where they were performed and would most likely be acceptable for USCIS purposes. But...it's easier to get documentation etc. for our marriage in Brazil and this is the information we used for immigration. Even if we disclose that we have a previous valid marriage we are choosing to use the Brazilian (less than 2 years documented) marriage. I can hardly imagine that after going through the interview and approval process that I would be able to change the conditional green card to an 10yr. card because I NOW want to rely on the Greek marriage as our valid marriage.

I understand that in this situation it would have been problematic to use the (undocumented?) religious marriage - even though it is valid in NY, but if you are going to provide proof of its validity, the time to do it was when petitioning USCIS. Otherwise, using one wedding date for the petition and another for the green card would create a loophole for people who claim to have valid religious ceremonies before documenting their marriage and now want to bypass the conditions.

So, the issue of whether you can marry 1 person 1,000 times in NY is moot, lol. I'm not here to discourage you from trying - by all means, its worth a shot if it will save you time, energy, and money in the future. However, my understanding of the law and the immigration process seems like getting what you want is very unlikely.

[Myopia 93]

Think of this in other terms: for example, my husband and I could have legally gotten married in Greece 12 years ago, and then legally got married in Brazil last year. Both marriages are valid where they were performed and would most likely be acceptable for USCIS purposes. But...it's easier to get documentation etc. for our marriage in Brazil and this is the information we used for immigration. Even if we disclose that we have a previous valid marriage we are choosing to use the Brazilian (less than 2 years documented) marriage. I can hardly imagine that after going through the interview and approval process that I would be able to change the conditional green card to an 10yr. card because I NOW want to rely on the Greek marriage as our valid marriage.

I understand that in this situation it would have been problematic to use the (undocumented?) religious marriage - even though it is valid in NY, but if you are going to provide proof of its validity, the time to do it was when petitioning USCIS. Otherwise, using one wedding date for the petition and another for the green card would create a loophole for people who claim to have valid religious ceremonies before documenting their marriage and now want to bypass the conditions.

So, the issue of whether you can marry 1 person 1,000 times in NY is moot, lol. I'm not here to discourage you from trying - by all means, its worth a shot if it will save you time, energy, and money in the future. However, my understanding of the law and the immigration process seems like getting what you want is very unlikely.

Yea...700 views I was like woaah but maybe this may help someone in a similar position. Not every immigration AOS case is simple so who knows! I agree with everything that you said. The only thing is I did have proof of its validity and presented it with the law. I was questioned about it by the IO.

I came in on a Visa waiver and denial of my case would have left me on the next plane home. It was better the date that was undeniable as opposed to anything else. I know that others were denied on common law marriages that were legal in their state yet considered not legal for immigration purposes. I guess thats the sticker.,...what kind of marriages are legal for USCIS purposes and which are not.

Your example would have had your case denied at some point because you would have concealed the previous marriages which is considered misrepresentation. You have to show all legal marriages even if its to the same person, again why I mentioned it in the first place. Its funny I remember asking this on the forum and Jim actually suggested that I did use the religious marriage (even without the license),He was probably right but alls well that ends well. Again I dont mind the discussion, it just shows how smart the people are on here.

[Justine+David 218]

Alright, wow, I had no idea you could marry someone over and over again. I could have sworn that I read that it was illegal, but I guess not...best of luck to you. I advise not to rock the boat and pay the $500 on the removal of conditions--not a big price to pay for having a piece of mind.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Justine+David