Age Difference - What induces a "Red Flag"?

[MyJourney1 15]

Joseph and I have a bigger difference and we made it so it is possible.

That's great; happy for Y'all! I'm getting a lot of encouragement from VJ...Thanks!

Edited April 1, 2012 by MyJourney1

[MyJourney1 15]

It seems all we are to do is prove a Bona Fide relationship. Than all these other components of judgement gets into the mix. Chidi and I are 21 years apart. I didn't go to school with his mum only because we were on different continents. But yes we are exactly the same age. But to see Chidi and I together is to see we are so well matched and compatible. Not because I look so young or we are such a hot couple but as you know on paper no one seems what they really are. That's why I so wish they would grant spouses and fiance'/fiancee's in the interview. Just so they could get the best picture. thats why I made sure my Passport picture they saw is me at my most attractive hottness. Because bottom line we are dealing with people who make judgements based on their own opinions of what they think.

But bottom line its ALL in God's hands. he is and will always be in control.

True That! All we can do is keep praying and, like Favored said, "prepare well". Thanks "Hot Stuff"!

Edited April 1, 2012 by MyJourney1

[MyJourney1 15]

The problem the consulate has is that almost everyone that is getting taken by the romance scammers is in the over 40 bracket. They get so many calls every week from some poor soul that is sure their lifes love has been trapped in some hotel there or in the hospital. It creates a mind set that every over 40 person has been affected in the same manner, lured into love by a sweet talking youngster , with intents of coming to America to establish the begining of serial immigration for the rest of his family. To some extent it is true as we see by the number of Nigerian/American relationships that last only months after immigration. But for those of us with valid reverse age realtionships it is an uphill battle with Nigeria which probably won't change as long as the first thing that comes to mind when Nigeria is mentioned is 419 and romance scams.

So because Nigeria is a Fraud-flagged country, I'm sure sincere couples get denied a lot. I see why some get married and live their married life while going through Immigration...

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

It seems all we are to do is prove a Bona Fide relationship. Than all these other components of judgement gets into the mix. Chidi and I are 21 years apart. I didn't go to school with his mum only because we were on different continents. But yes we are exactly the same age. But to see Chidi and I together is to see we are so well matched and compatible. Not because I look so young or we are such a hot couple but as you know on paper no one seems what they really are. That's why I so wish they would grant spouses and fiance'/fiancee's in the interview. Just so they could get the best picture. thats why I made sure my Passport picture they saw is me at my most attractive hottness. Because bottom line we are dealing with people who make judgements based on their own opinions of what they think.

But bottom line its ALL in God's hands. he is and will always be in control.

There are three factors the consulate considers when weighing the bona fides of the relationship that can have an effect on whether something is a red flag:

1. The "reasonable person" standard. What would a reasonable person from the beneficiary's home country think of the circumstances of the relationship? What would a reasonable American person think? If either reasonable person would be suspicious, then the consulate will likewise be suspicious.

2. What is the prevalence of visa fraud in the beneficiary's home country?

3. Is the specific circumstance being considered a common factor in cases that are known to be fraudulent?

Using the age difference as a specific example, is it unusual in Nigeria for a man to marry a woman who is the same age as his mother? Is it unusual in America? If either of these is true then it triggers suspicion under the reasonable person standard.

Is visa fraud prevalent in Nigeria? I think the answer to this is probably yes. Is a large age difference, older woman - younger man, a common factor in fraud cases in Nigeria? This I don't know.

The thing you have to bear in mind is that the consular officer doesn't know either one of you. They have to make their decision based solely on the evidence presented and the presentation of the beneficiary at the interview. They can't look at each case in a complete vacuum, absent their experience with other cases. In fact, they're specifically trained to rely on their experience, and the experience of other consular officers, to assist them in detecting fraud. This means that, for better or worse, the scammers that preceded you through the consulate have made your life considerably more difficult.

I'm a firm believer in front loading the petition when you know you're dealing with a difficult consulate, and you know there are circumstances in your case that the consulate will consider to be red flags. You include evidence with the petition that demonstrates that, although your case shares some common characteristics with cases that have been determined to be fraudulent, there is a reasonable and provable reason why it should not be considered an indicator of potential fraud in your case. There were red flags in my case, and I took this approach in preparing my petition. For example, one of our red flags was that we were introduced by my wife's uncle. Some people refer to this as the "Uncle Boom Boom" scenario in Vietnam. I explained in my response to question 18 on the petition that I had met her uncle years before when I hired him to do the landscaping on my property, and we became friends. At the time I was still going through a divorce. Her uncle didn't offer to introduce me to his niece until he discovered I wasn't dating anyone regularly a few years after the divorce was over. I traded emails with her for about a year before deciding I wanted to meet her in person. It wasn't until then her uncle and I went to Vietnam for the formal face-to-face introduction. My wife is in her mid 40's and I in my early 50's, so in light of how the introduction actually went down it sounds a lot less like the "Uncle Boom Boom" scenario. What could have been an issue at the interview ended up not even being brought up.

My wife sailed through the interview with only four questions. I wasn't allowed into the consulate for the interview, but waited across the street for six hours. I saw a LOT of people leaving in tears, and my wife said she saw a lot more denials than approvals.

[dwheels76 5,468]

There are three factors the consulate considers when weighing the bona fides of the relationship that can have an effect on whether something is a red flag:

1. The "reasonable person" standard. What would a reasonable person from the beneficiary's home country think of the circumstances of the relationship? Oh Boy, Not enough space to cover that I am sure. What would a reasonable American person think? Same If either reasonable person would be suspicious, then the consulate will likewise be suspicious. Oh they will be suspicious if we were the same age. It's Nigeria.

2. What is the prevalence of visa fraud in the beneficiary's home country? Highest in world I hear

3. Is the specific circumstance being considered a common factor in cases that are known to be fraudulent? YES

Using the age difference as a specific example, is it unusual in Nigeria for a man to marry a woman who is the same age as his mother?YES Is it unusual in America? YES If either of these is true then it triggers suspicion under the reasonable person standard.

Is visa fraud prevalent in Nigeria? I think the answer to this is probably yes. Is a large age difference, older woman - younger man, a common factor in fraud cases in Nigeria? This I don't know. I have been told that the majority of these "romance " scams coming out of Nigeria involve women over 40 with younger men.

The thing you have to bear in mind is that the consular officer doesn't know either one of you. They have to make their decision based solely on the evidence presented and the presentation of the beneficiary at the interview. They can't look at each case in a complete vacuum, absent their experience with other cases. In fact, they're specifically trained to rely on their experience, and the experience of other consular officers, to assist them in detecting fraud. This means that, for better or worse, the scammers that preceded you through the consulate have made your life considerably more difficult.

I'm a firm believer in front loading the petition when you know you're dealing with a difficult consulate, and you know there are circumstances in your case that the consulate will consider to be red flags. You include evidence with the petition that demonstrates that, although your case shares some common characteristics with cases that have been determined to be fraudulent, there is a reasonable and provable reason why it should not be considered an indicator of potential fraud in your case. There were red flags in my case, and I took this approach in preparing my petition. For example, one of our red flags was that we were introduced by my wife's uncle. Some people refer to this as the "Uncle Boom Boom" scenario in Vietnam. I explained in my response to question 18 on the petition that I had met her uncle years before when I hired him to do the landscaping on my property, and we became friends. At the time I was still going through a divorce. Her uncle didn't offer to introduce me to his niece until he discovered I wasn't dating anyone regularly a few years after the divorce was over. I traded emails with her for about a year before deciding I wanted to meet her in person. It wasn't until then her uncle and I went to Vietnam for the formal face-to-face introduction. My wife is in her mid 40's and I in my early 50's, so in light of how the introduction actually went down it sounds a lot less like the "Uncle Boom Boom" scenario. What could have been an issue at the interview ended up not even being brought up.

My wife sailed through the interview with only four questions. I wasn't allowed into the consulate for the interview, but waited across the street for six hours. I saw a LOT of people leaving in tears, and my wife said she saw a lot more denials than approvals.

All excellent points that just makes me not feel better. But I will remain positive and believe that my front-loading wasn't in vain. I so wish they would interview my mum-in-law now she is my new best friend.

[MyJourney1 15]

There are three factors the consulate considers when weighing the bona fides of the relationship that can have an effect on whether something is a red flag:

1. The "reasonable person" standard. What would a reasonable person from the beneficiary's home country think of the circumstances of the relationship? What would a reasonable American person think? If either reasonable person would be suspicious, then the consulate will likewise be suspicious.

2. What is the prevalence of visa fraud in the beneficiary's home country?

3. Is the specific circumstance being considered a common factor in cases that are known to be fraudulent?

Using the age difference as a specific example, is it unusual in Nigeria for a man to marry a woman who is the same age as his mother? Is it unusual in America? If either of these is true then it triggers suspicion under the reasonable person standard.

Is visa fraud prevalent in Nigeria? I think the answer to this is probably yes. Is a large age difference, older woman - younger man, a common factor in fraud cases in Nigeria? This I don't know.

The thing you have to bear in mind is that the consular officer doesn't know either one of you. They have to make their decision based solely on the evidence presented and the presentation of the beneficiary at the interview. They can't look at each case in a complete vacuum, absent their experience with other cases. In fact, they're specifically trained to rely on their experience, and the experience of other consular officers, to assist them in detecting fraud. This means that, for better or worse, the scammers that preceded you through the consulate have made your life considerably more difficult.

I'm a firm believer in front loading the petition when you know you're dealing with a difficult consulate, and you know there are circumstances in your case that the consulate will consider to be red flags. You include evidence with the petition that demonstrates that, although your case shares some common characteristics with cases that have been determined to be fraudulent, there is a reasonable and provable reason why it should not be considered an indicator of potential fraud in your case. There were red flags in my case, and I took this approach in preparing my petition. For example, one of our red flags was that we were introduced by my wife's uncle. Some people refer to this as the "Uncle Boom Boom" scenario in Vietnam. I explained in my response to question 18 on the petition that I had met her uncle years before when I hired him to do the landscaping on my property, and we became friends. At the time I was still going through a divorce. Her uncle didn't offer to introduce me to his niece until he discovered I wasn't dating anyone regularly a few years after the divorce was over. I traded emails with her for about a year before deciding I wanted to meet her in person. It wasn't until then her uncle and I went to Vietnam for the formal face-to-face introduction. My wife is in her mid 40's and I in my early 50's, so in light of how the introduction actually went down it sounds a lot less like the "Uncle Boom Boom" scenario. What could have been an issue at the interview ended up not even being brought up.

My wife sailed through the interview with only four questions. I wasn't allowed into the consulate for the interview, but waited across the street for six hours. I saw a LOT of people leaving in tears, and my wife said she saw a lot more denials than approvals.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I'm really learning a lot here on VJ. I was thinking too, "maybe part of the reason they don't allow the fiance in with them, so the he/she won't be able to manipulate the answers and/or put on a "Lubby-Dubby show for the CO who's conducting the interview intending to impress him/her.". Can you tell me what the term "Uncle Boom Boom" means?

Edited April 1, 2012 by MyJourney1

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

There have been all sorts of stories from Lagos about the displays that go on to prove a valid relationship ( I think the worse I have heard is a man that brought the marital bed sheets in to prove the had sex ) I can only image the scenes that would occur if the USC was there and they CO starts denying the fiance/spouse. I know I would have had a foot up the CO's tush had I been in the room the first time. I had to settle for using the DOD to report her demanding details of what I do. I also know that desparate applicants would develop sign language ( pull your hair for yes , tap your fingers for no ) If you are outside ( do rent a chair ) have your SO tell them you are there. They probably won't call you in but you are obviously supportive of the petition . Unfortunately you probably aren't coming to the US together as most end up in AP after the bad inflight behavior of one Nigerian man.

[MyJourney1 15]

There have been all sorts of stories from Lagos about the displays that go on to prove a valid relationship ( I think the worse I have heard is a man that brought the marital bed sheets in to prove the had sex ) I can only image the scenes that would occur if the USC was there and they CO starts denying the fiance/spouse. I know I would have had a foot up the CO's tush had I been in the room the first time. I had to settle for using the DOD to report her demanding details of what I do. I also know that desparate applicants would develop sign language ( pull your hair for yes , tap your fingers for no ) If you are outside ( do rent a chair ) have your SO tell them you are there. They probably won't call you in but you are obviously supportive of the petition . Unfortunately you probably aren't coming to the US together as most end up in AP after the bad inflight behavior of one Nigerian man.

The man that brought in his marital bed sheets proved to be a "Lunatic", which is why probably why he got denied; they wanted to spare the wife further headaches in the future. That's the most ridiculous I've ever heard. He was either being a "Jerk" not able to discern his behavior would ruin his complete case or he just needs "Psychological Professional Assistance".

Edited April 1, 2012 by MyJourney1

[NigeriaorBust 4,087]

Desparate people do desparate things.

[MyJourney1 15]

Desparate people do desparate things.

That's true, but some things are just PLAIN RIDICULOUS! The Embassy knows they're having sex and bed sheets does not prove that the sex was with her. Will the Embassy take DNA samples to prove intercourse between husband and wife? I think not! The Embassy did the wife a good favor by denying their case.

Edited April 1, 2012 by MyJourney1

[MyJourney1 15]

That's true, but some things are just PLAIN RIDICULOUS! The Embassy knows they're having sex and bed sheets does not prove that the sex was with her. Will the Embassy take DNA samples to prove intercourse between husband and wife? I think not! The Embassy did the wife a good favor by denying their case.

I serious with the Best for the couple; Hope the wife can reason with him not do such a foolish thing again and he realizes the extent of what he did and they both work together to make things happen so that they can win over the government for a favorable decision and they live happily ever after.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Can you tell me what the term "Uncle Boom Boom" means?

"Boom Boom" was a slang term for sex with a prostitute during the Vietnam war. The term "Uncle Boom Boom" is an inference that the uncle is setting up the relationship with dual motives. On the beneficiary's side, he's setting it up to help a relative immigrate. On the petitioner's side, he's enticing the US citizen (usually much older than the beneficiary) with the promise of a young and attractive Asian sex toy.

[MyJourney1 15]

"Boom Boom" was a slang term for sex with a prostitute during the Vietnam war. The term "Uncle Boom Boom" is an inference that the uncle is setting up the relationship with dual motives. On the beneficiary's side, he's setting it up to help a relative immigrate. On the petitioner's side, he's enticing the US citizen (usually much older than the beneficiary) with the promise of a young and attractive Asian sex toy.

Ohhhh, I see...

I'm happy to hear they approved you and her...

Edited April 2, 2012 by MyJourney1

[together4evr 360]

I met an asian woman who told me her husband petitioned for her 5 years ago and they sent in a sex tape with their I-130.

And her interview was easy. They divorced after a son and 2 years of marriage.

I do not think USCIS accepts videos as evidence but I cannot imagine where that tape has ended up?!!!

Edited April 3, 2012 by togetherforever13

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I met an asian woman who told me her husband petitioned for her 5 years ago and they sent in a sex tape with their I-130.

And her interview was easy. They divorced after a son and 2 years of marriage.

I do not think USCIS accepts videos as evidence but I cannot imagine where that tape has ended up?!!!

USCIS doesn't accept media of any sort as preliminary evidence, though they have requested media in cases where there was a lack of other evidence and they were strongly inclined to deny. I've only heard of that happening in adjustment of status cases. Those cases usually also involved a home visit by USCIS and ICE.

Hopefully, they just assumed the tape was a family get together or some other boring event, and just destroyed it. Unless they specifically ask for it, they usually don't look at media submitted as evidence. It would sure suck for that couple of their video was now posted on an amateur porn site.