sending money to his family (long)

[Jo&Si 9]

One thing to keep in mind when putting your foot down is that he may intend to agree, but increase his demands later when your situation improves. It would be a good idea to address how things will be long-term too.

I totally agree about this...it's what manipulative men would do...change their tunes to please you and shut your mouth for a while and will come back to their same demands later on ...

[TBoneTX 45,663]

Y'know what? You're (still) fretting about and trying to tweak or micromanage what it would really take a bulldozer to do. I'd tell him to cram his greedy, selfish attitudes up his own ####### (immediately and with great force), repeat the process with each of his family members' asses, and find some other suckerette to soak.

[Laure&Colin 558]

I don't give a damn what culture you practice, your immediate family (kids & spouse) takes priority over your extended family (parents, siblings). Settle the needs of your home before you go and help others. As for the parents staying for 6 months...hell no. They can stay for 3 months tops (can't be too selfish).

This is just not true. In many cultures, children, especially the eldest son, are responsible for taking care of their parents FOREVER, whether they start their own family or not. In many cultures, the parents are the number one priority, on an equal level to one's children, way above the spouse. In many cultures, one's loyalty goes to their parents before their spouse.

Just because it's very different from the mainstream Western culture doesn't make it evil or wrong. Personal accomplishment and individualism are very recent concepts that have only taken over the most developped Western countries, while life in other parts of the world is still organized around traditions that make the group more important than the individual.

I think all of the OP's issues with her husband are eventually caused by one initial mistake: thinking that because OP has Indian origins, they shared common values. Well, it's not the case, as the OP's family obviously adapted to the US lifestyle and she has never felt how binding traditions can be, while the husband was raised in a very traditional family.

Can it work? In my opinion, and based on personal experience of multi-cultural relationship with someone from a "family based" culture, no. Too many things cannot be reconciled, at least not without the situation being devastating for one of the spouses.

Just as an example: accomodating the inlaws. For a person raised in a Western country, having your inlaws in your small appartment for 6 months is just insane. I'd throw my MOL out the window after 4 weeks. For someone raised in a traditional culture, not offering their parents to come stay with them as long as they want is mortifying, more than that, it's not accomplishing one's duty, it's transgressing the rules.

Good luck, and be aware now that life together is going to be a long road of struggle paved with misunderstanding, anger and bitterness. Not that I want to depress anyone, but been there, done that.

[rlogan 2,036]

Y'know what? You're (still) fretting about and trying to tweak or micromanage what it would really take a bulldozer to do.

Hahahahah! So true.

The people that are defending "traditional" Indian culture - you have this wrong in a big way. The husband is expected to work to provide for his family. The father is a lazy, unemployed mooching bum instead. He is a bum by the traditional cultural standard. There is a huge difference between expecting children to help the parents after retirement age vs the leach that uses it as an excuse not to work while able-bodied.

If people were actually paying attention to cultural standards instead of using it as a convenient excuse to be a parasite, then the father would be viewed as bringing dishonor to his family by being a leach instead of working like the other Indian men of his age. A woman thinking about marrying in to such a family would view the family with suspicion and scorn for having a patriarch that is such a loser.

and the apple don't fall very far from the tree.

[Jo&Si 9]

Hahahahah! So true.

The people that are defending "traditional" Indian culture - you have this wrong in a big way. The husband is expected to work to provide for his family. The father is a lazy, unemployed mooching bum instead. He is a bum by the traditional cultural standard. There is a huge difference between expecting children to help the parents after retirement age vs the leach that uses it as an excuse not to work while able-bodied.

If people were actually paying attention to cultural standards instead of using it as a convenient excuse to be a parasite, then the father would be viewed as bringing dishonor to his family by being a leach instead of working like the other Indian men of his age. A woman thinking about marrying in to such a family would view the family with suspicion and scorn for having a patriarch that is such a loser.

and the apple don't fall very far from the tree.

Agree

[cdneh 3,112]

Y'know what? You're (still) fretting about and trying to tweak or micromanage what it would really take a bulldozer to do. I'd tell him to cram his greedy, selfish attitudes up his own ####### (immediately and with great force), repeat the process with each of his family members' asses, and find some other suckerette to soak.

Oh this. With brass knobs on.

If he's so concerned about doing his duty by his parents, and being Number One Son, and he so concerned about giving them money, and so anxious to see that they take a nice 6 month expense free holiday every year, and on and on...you can help with this. Leave him right where he is.

I'm sorry OP, but he's got dollar signs in his eyes, and you are the family sized meal ticket.

[Darnell 8,478]

Y'know what? You're (still) fretting about and trying to tweak or micromanage what it would really take a bulldozer to do. I'd tell him to cram his greedy, selfish attitudes up his own ####### (immediately and with great force), repeat the process with each of his family members' asses, and find some other suckerette to soak.

I would participate in driving the bulldozer, anytime. It's fun, this emasculation of 'entitled' men.

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

First off, I'm sorry you're going through this. Marital troubles are never fun.

As an American of non-Indian origin engaged to an Indian man I will try to offer an outsider's perspective.

I agree with previous members who have said the source of your marital difficulties have a large cultural basis. I am quite aware of the fact that many Indian males are expected to support their parents indefinitely and also that their immediate family is often placed at a higher priority than their wives. However, his statements to you appear to be largely exaggerated for a more dramatic effect and for him to gain more sympathy from you. If it were that "urgent" he would not continue to change his mind about amounts of money, things he's said, etc... If he is so concerned about finances and sending money back home, how is he going to afford to pay for his parents to come for 6 months of every year? Sure he wants to give them the opportunity at a more comfortable life, but at what price? He should decide whether he wants to send money back home on a monthly basis or pay the expensive round trip plane fare for both his parents to come to the U.S. and this is not including visa fees, travel insurance, etc... Sending money AND paying for his parents to come every year? That's just not doable on your salary or even a combined salary.

I see this being a lack of perspective on his part. He has never been to the U.S. or any other western country for that matter so in his mind he already has a preconceived notion of what life in the U.S. is going to be like.

I guarantee my fiance would have a different point of view if he had not traveled so much. (He has lived and worked in the UK, U.S. and Thailand for at least a year at a time). He even told me that coming to the U.S. was a huge eye-opener for him as he had a completely different idea in mind of how the U.S. would be. He was shocked when he saw run-down areas stricken with poverty and people struggling to get by.

Your husband strikes me as the type of person who is too stubborn to consider this until he's experienced it himself. I feel that you attempting to explain to him that not everyone in the U.S. is "rich" would be a waste of time as he has already decided for himself what life in the U.S. is like.

You two should not be having such bitter arguments this early in your marriage. You haven't even experienced a full year of marriage yet. What's going to happen when you actually live together? Little problems may not seem like a big deal now but they can quickly manifest into much larger problems. You already have a foundation of disagreement underneath your marriage. A simple bad habit of his that you don't like may very well be the tipping point for you. I see you drawing a line and him continuing to cross it. How many times are you going to re-draw the line? Before you know he will have the ball in his court 90% of the time with you having little to no say in everyday decision making. That may work for some time, but soon you will come to deeply resent him and at that point your marriage will reach a critical point.

You mention having kids but have you seriously considered what having kids with this man may entail? What will you both do about your careers? Will he expect you to quit your job to take care of the children? This is the medical career that you and your parents have worked so hard for it to be possible. Does your husband expect you to give all of that up, at least for a few years, so you can take on the role of a typical Indian housewife? Would he be comfortable with hiring a nanny, sending them to daycare, or having your family pick up the slack when possible? I don't see him as the type of man that would be willing to quit his job in lieu of taking on childcare responsibilities. He's much too conservative in his nature to do that. I don't mean to bring up a topic of potential conflict with your husband but this is a huge deal. I'm sure I don't have to elaborate that children complicate a weak marriage.

How is his family life? Have you observed his interactions with his mother? Does he sit back and let her take care of the housework, bringing him meals, etc.? His home life is going to be a good start to see how your future life together is going to be. What are his expectations for a wife? Does he expect you to take care of all the household duties, prepare a hot meal, and hold down a job? Or is he willing to share the responsibilities evenly? Will he wash the clothes, do the dishes, clean the bathroom, or cook dinner when he sees you exhausted and burned out? This is what you would want and expect out of him but what are his thoughts? Will he care what "the neighbors think" if they see him running the vacuum or preparing a meal?

He also needs to stop comparing your lives and to stop keeping a "tally" of all the things he's done for you versus all the things you've done for him (such as getting his passport apostilled). Marriage is not a competition to see who's done more, how many times the bathroom has been cleaned by him, or how many things you've had growing up that he didn't. Yes he is giving up a lot by moving to the U.S. but don't let him use that as ammunition against you in disagreements. Remember, he accepted that fact that sacrifices would have to be made when he decided to marry an American woman. Right now he wants it all: money, money to send to his family, and for his family to be with him as much as possible. He will realize on his own that his expectations are too high and that he was being unreasonable. Once again, he is too stubborn to understand this coming from you. He has to find out for himself.

In my opinion, it's time to be frank with him. It's harsh but he needs to realize the seriousness of his actions. Tell him honestly and truthfully that you do not like his behavior and his unwillingness to come to a neutral zone. Because of this, you are considering divorce because you cannot deal with his stubborn attitude and resistance to compromise. Do not let him manipulate you any further. If you mention divorce, he's going to get scared and start filling your head with things he thinks you want to hear. As soon as the muddy waters calm, he will again revert to his old behavior. Tell him you will not reconsider your decisions until he has made an honest effort to come to a mutual agreement on tough issues. He has to prove to you that he is willingly to modify his behavior for the sake of your marriage. Avoiding the problems by not giving you a clear answer will not suffice. He will be angry and possibly hurt but don't let that discourage you. Remember he has hurt you as well in the past. Why should you have to take more hurt to spare him his feelings? That's not fair. You deserve respect as much as he does.

I will like to end with I in no way condemn him or think that he is a bad person by any means. He is NOT a terrible man out to hurt you. You two simply have different ideas in mind for the future. It really takes two to make a marriage work, two people to disagree but also two people to give a little bit of way so that they can come to a mutual agreement. He obviously is very very attached to his parents largely because that is the way he was brought up. Have you talked to him about petitioning for his family after he becomes a citizen so they can move here permanently? That may help with some of the anguish he feels about leaving his family behind and leaving them in a potential financial bind. I would say because he is so attached to his family, you really are going to have to give a little bit of way if you want your marriage to work. I'm not saying allow them to stay in your small one bedroom apartment for 6 months but maybe you could come up with another solution. Here's one: Are you in a city where there is a significant Indian population? (5,000 + Indians) If so, many Indian families offer a sublease on month to month basis for a reasonable price. I'm sure gossiping may occur followed by thoughts of "what the neighbors think". Try to phrase in a way so they can see that they will be extremely bored in your one bedroom apartment while both you and your husband are at work. Therefore they would be more content with an Indian family to talk with and enjoy chai together rather than thinking negatively about you.

I understand the huge cultural component of this and I accept that as the way he feels. At the same time I know that I could never deal with my fiance being the same way. Our marriage could never work if he was this unwilling to compromise. You seem to be on a similar page. I truly respect you for making an honest effort to nurture your marriage. In today's modern American society where marriage is no longer sacred and its far too easy to get a divorce, I truly commend your spirit on attempting to make this work.

I truly wish you the best of luck on the path you decide.

[Visitor 90]

From what I'm reading of these posts and what you've said about your husband, he married you to better his own and his family's life. Can't blame him for that but it sure sounds like he's used you as a door of opportunity. You play a secondary role to his family now that you are married it's easier for him to press his family value issues now than before you were married. . Sorry if this sounds harsh but I call a spade a spade where I see it. From what I read, your backgrounds, beliefs and values are far too different for this to work. Personally I feel you've been more than fair about laying all your cards on the table as far as expectations are concerned and the fact that he skirted all these issues before you were married and has been charismatic enough to charm you into marriage before these issues were settled shows me that he wanted to make certain you were well and truly hooked before upsetting the applecart. I think you have been more than reasonable in stating that you are even willing to pay for his family to visit but for him to place demands that they stay for 6 months is not only unreasonable but should show you his true colours as to where his devotion lies when it comes to pecking order in the family. I don't know what your cultural background is but if I was to "import" a husband (and please excuse my bluntness here or lack of tact but I don't know how else to put it) I would expect said husband to be more gracious about my sacrifices in this matter too. You have a life and loans to pay and you are trying to be responsible and discuss financial matters with him and compromise but he's making demands on you and your money before you've even earned it. You have ambitions and it would seem the only way they fit into "his" plans for "his" family are to use you for a cash cow. (again I appologise for my bluntness here but just calling it as I see it and it's as you've painted it).

I see red flags here and you need to seriously sort out these issues BEFORE you get in any deeper financially into this. He's already got you emotionally hooked and will use that to get what he wants now and that is security for his family by way of you.

I can also see him trying his best to charm you into sweeping these issues under the rug until he's in the states with you then things will magically resolve themselves but they won't. The longer these issues aren't resolved the deeper hold he will have on you so it's to his advantage to drag this out and make YOU sound like you are being unreasonable.

If it was me and I had your wonderful ambitions, vision and staunch commonsense I would ruuuuuuuunnnnnn Forrrrresssssst ruuuuuuunnnnn!!!...but hey that's just me!

I think milimelo pegged this one and I'm totally in agreeance.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

[Visitor 90]

After reading cdneh's post I totally concur. Very well put!

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

Rkk,

Any more news? I hope you were able to reach some level of mutual agreement with your husband.

[Visitor 90]

AKSingh makes some very good points but the bottom line is that he's placing unreasonable demands on RKK by way of asking for a car and saying he wants his family (let's not forget dear brother) visit for 6 months every year.

Let's face it.....he's spending her money AND taking money from her parents when offered and asking for more for luxury items just because he thinks she/they can afford it.

Rkk already has fears and they should be red flags screaming out warnings for bigger things to come by way of his expectations.

It's commendable to try to make your marriage work but at what price? Are you willing to give up your ambition of becoming a doctor to be a stay at home mum if you have kids or are you willing to allow your parents to continue offering/giving him money and him taking it as your parents way of giving you support? Are they also co sponsors for you and your husband? If so they too are being roped into this and it won't end with just him.

He intends to bring not only himself to this marriage but his entire family. He wants to come to this country but isn't willing to integrate to American society but wants to bring all his traditions and cultures here to the states and expects you to live by HIS rules... that being as someone else already pointed out, that YOU come second to his family. That may be how things work in his country but I'm sure it's not what you pictured for this union with him. For this to work he will have to meet you half way and compromise where his family are concerened and so far he's not and isn't going to budge on that according to him. Not only is he not willing to make any sort of compromise but he's already placing demands by asking for a car which in itself should tell you that he's using you for a cash cow. Not only you but your parents too.

You and your parents have worked hard and planned well for your education so you can have a great future. He cannot see beyond getting his family here for a better life but wants YOU to be the ticket and family sized one as someone else so eloquently put it.

If he comes here and gets his green card you will not only be hooked but so will your family because you will need their help to pull this off. He will drag you down financially and continue to place guilt on you through your emotions to get what he wants (give an inch and he'll ask for and take a mile already proven by asking for the car) and he will make no hesitation in taking your family down too. He may say he loves you but that is just his way of getting what he wants because he knows he can charm you and that has already worked for him.

I know this hurts but the man has his own agenda and you aren't number one in his life. If you were he wouldn't place such demands on you.

At the risk of getting my post removed (and I don't mean to offend but I am not as diplomatic as AKSingh) I'm going to call a spade a spade and call this man a con artist of the most dangerous kind. This has red flags all over it. I actually couldn't sleep well last night worrying about you and for you and your family. This whole thing is making me sick so I can only imagine how and your family must be feeling right now.

Quick story top explain why this hits home with me so hard -

I met a man online once. He was my moon and stars or so I thought. He didn't have 2 dimes to his name so I went to him and he knew I had to work hard and sell things including jewelry and my car to make it possible for me to go to him. As I was telling him what I was selling he was asking "What else do "WE" have that you can sell? That should have been red flag #1. As I was preparing to leave the country I asked him what little thing I could bring him as a gift from my country. He knew money was very tight and it was a struggle for me just to get there. He asked me to buy him a $500 chronological (sp?) watch. Red flag #2. My jaw dropped and naturally I didn't buy it for him but I bought something else which he ended up hocking at a pawn shop 3 weeks after my arrival. I was devastated. Red flag #3 Further to that because I'd hit a low spot financially and he had no money my family sent money to help me out and against my better judgement I allowed him to drive me to where I had to pick up the funds. I wanted to take the bus but he insisted on driving me. His car broke down and I had to use some of my funds to fix it to get us back to his place. Red flag #4 - he knew the car would break down and told me he expected it would happen but wanted ME to pay for it. Again my parents helped me to get home but I got out by the skin of my teeth. I cried for a while but was so relieved I got out when I did.

I know that is an extreme story but a true experience and it has left me very sensitive and alert to "red flags".

Do be careful and I pray for you that you and your family aren't hurt and that the outcome to all this is good.

Take care and God bless.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Outback Annie

[rkk1 34]

Thanks so much everyone! This thread has been immensely helpful to me. I admit, I have been having an awful week with thoughts of divorce running through my mind. It was not really the divorce that was bothering me the most, but thoughts of whether he'd try to retaliate against me by trying to override our pre-nup... that was bothering me the most (I don't have much money, but my name is on my parents's retirement accounts, as they have around $1.5 million in their retirement accounts. They wanted to transfer the accounts fully to their name and take my name off the accounts before my marriage, but ran out of time as we got married very soon after the engagement. So they simply requested us to get the pre-nup done instead, which we did. I was simply hoping that my husband wouldn't try to challenge the pre-nup if we came to divorcing, as that would be a needless crisis to my family).

This morning my husband and I had a long talk.... with lots of emotions running high. It started off with many emails back and forth last night which got pretty heated, and finally he got so hurt that he called me on Skype yelling as he felt deeply insulted by what I had written. And then we really hashed it all out (though after an hour of heated discussion we got back to a peaceful and polite place.) It has been fully clarified and understood between us that there will be no money from my side to buy his family a car at this time. I've also put it out there that I'm not going to be planning on sending any money to his folks until we are fully independent from my parents money. I also told him that I don't want to send money to his family unless his dad gets a job.

He understood where I was coming from, and says that I have a right to feel as I do. But he says it may be possible that he may choose not to come to the US afterall, as he doesn't know if this is something he can agree with or not. He knows that I'll be okay with this, as I have to put my foot down, and if that means the end of the marriage for us having incompatible lifestyles then there is nothing I can do. As much as it would break my heart for our marriage to end, I think I would rather us both come to this conclusion rather than spend a lifetime of trying to manipulate each other.

I was going to my counselor's office today (as I have currently been going once weekly at this point). I asked him if he would come online, so he could participate in the discussion to see if there was any possible chance for mediation. He agreed to be stay online to talk to her, which I really appreciated. Unfortunately my counselor had to cancel last minute as she had an emergency, but at least I was grateful to my husband for being open to counseling. I do not know what will happen to the marriage, whether divorce will be on the cards or not, but as long as I feel like I'm not being taken advantage of... then I suppose I will be open to whatever we decide is best for us as a couple.

[rkk1 34]

By the way, to respond to AKSingh's previous comments.... my husband fully supports my goals of me becoming a doctor. He's really great about that. So I would think there would be no reason for him to not want me to work. He has always encouraged me to be the best doctor I can. If we can afford as a family for me to work part-time someday (especially if we have kids), I would certainly like to do that.

As far as cooking and cleaning and housework, he actually used to make me grand promises before marriage that he would do all the housework. I don't really expect him to do all that (I'd be thrilled if he would do half). He also cooks reasonably well... while his parents are phenomenal in the kitchen (probably average by Indian standards, but amazing by my standards), my husband can still make some decent food.

In response to Outback Annie's comments, I am really sorry for what you went through with that previous guy. I'm glad you were able to get out of that relationship. I absolutely agree that there are major Red flags in our relationship. I can see them. I have no way of being assured whether my husband will stick to his promises or not. I can only hope for the best, and be prepared to walk away if he doesn't keep his end of the bargain. The idea of him putting me in a financial bind is deeply scary to me. I can only hope that the indignation he had today when I mentioned the shame in him asking me for money carries through with him. He said that he was only asking for money for the car (as opposed to visa) was because he thought I was the one initially offering him money in the first place... and that he has too much pride to demand money from me otherwise. He was also talking about how much he loves my parents (as my parents are really great with him, and chat with him about an hour every week). I'm just hoping that if he really has all this pride and really cares for my family and me as he says he does, then he won't resort to any sort of retaliation if the marriage ends up breaking down. I hope he can simply do it with good-will. Right now we have not decided to break up the marriage yet, though we realize our marriage is on the rocks and we recognize the possibility for a breakup if we cannot work out our differences.

[rkk1 34]

Oh and a few more things I forgot to respond to..

No, my parents will not be sponsoring my husband. I make about $40k a year currently, so if we decide to proceed further I'll sponsor him on my own. I also agree that we should slow down this visa process for the time being and see whether we can make things work first or not. My national exams are in early July... and I don't expect the I-130 to be approved until mid-August. So there is hopefully enough time for us to work out our issues or not. But if we are still unsure by then, then I am okay with holding out the visa process until we know what is best for us.

As far as Darnell's comment about me showing this thread to my father, there could be both advantages and disadvantages to doing so. The advantage is, as mentioned, that yes, my dad has been in this country long enough to see through my husband's behavior. My dad would not be pleased if he thought my husband wanted any money from me (which my husband is claiming he doesn't but simply thought I was offering). My dad has a lot of pride in himself for taking care of his family... and I'm sure he hopes that my husband would have this kind of pride as well, so that my dad can feel confident that I'll be well taken care of when he is no longer around. (Now of course I don't NEED a man to take care of me, as I'm fully capable of taking care of myself... but this is just a dad's wish for his daughter to have such a husband who will be there for her.) So yes, it would help my parents understand what I was going through and probably they'd be able to give me more emotional support.

On the other hand, I've intentionally not told them yet, because my parents are also very gullable and it's easy to induce guilt with them. At the time of the engagement, they were giving my husband's family a lot of money, which I objected to. But my relatives were inducing guilt saying that the girl's side has to give the guy's side money, as it's custom. (Some of my husband's extended family exerted minor pressure about gifts, but it was my own relatives who were much worse than even my husband's side.) After I got super upset with my family over the money they gave to my (then) fiance at the time of the engagement, my parents promised they wouldn't do that at the wedding. During the wedding time, they were again being guilt-induced by my relatives for not giving big gifts. My parents were feeling embarrassed thinking that my husband's family would think less of them for not giving enough. After much objection from me again, my parents finally gave very small gifts to my husband's family members (shawls and dress suits, etc, but no cars or luxury items). I was still not entirely happy with this, but got tired of fighting. Now if my parents come to know that my husband and I are arguing over money matters, they might likely go behind my back to offer him money (which they've already done before as my husband has told me. My parents talk to my husband on their own for an hour each week, and my husband told me that my dad told him to tell him if his family ever needs anything. I find this degrading, but I don't know what to do). Although my parents would not give money to my husband's family happily, I bet they would gladly do it if they thought it would save our marriage. I do not agree that my parents should be in any way obliged to send their hard-earned money to my husband or his family (which is needed for their own retirement). And thus I see no need to tell my parents about our struggles it terms of discussing financial matters. If we get closer to the idea of divorcing, then certainly I've had to discuss this with my parents. They themselves were already asking today if everything was fine with my husband, as he didn't pick up their call a few days ago. So they will know soon enough if things go downhill between us. But I won't make a big issue over finances as I don't want my parents to feel guilt-induced into giving my husband money in attempts to save our marriage.

Edited April 11, 2012 by rkk1