sending money to his family (long)

[Darnell 8,478]

Well, I have one more comment to the OP.

Take yer numerous posts of issues over these last 3 months,

and show them all (including our responses)

to your father.

Ask him for his input.

DO NOT have a convo with Dad, until he's read all.

Then have a long, long convo with Dad, get his input.

Then let us know what Dad says, aye?

[Sayha or bust. 71]

Why shouldn't she? It's actually SHE who is helping with HIS visa process. She's done her part for the petition, technically the rest is ALL him. I personally paid for almost the entire visa process myself but that's irrelevant to the amount my husband has spent on me since.

From what I read it doesnt sound as if he has much money. I'm not sure but what Ive seen about the people of India is like that of a 3rd world country(Maybe Iv'e watched too much Nat Geo or the History channel). Correct me if I'm wrong. I should of asked my wife "Hey honey could you help pay for your Visa". She was a dirt poor farmer. Hate to burst your bubble but its not always love alone that brings your beneficiary to you. They want a better life. You came from Australia I don't envision your country as Impoverished.You obviously were gainfully employed and had the means to pay.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Sayha or bust.

[rkk1 34]

Thanks once again to everyone who has responded, and a special thanks to Vanessa&Tony for taking the time to reply to my last post point-by-point!

We talked for a few hours yesterday (even after my last post). We couldn't compromise at all on the family visits issue, but as far as the money situation, I did get him to think about things. He did promise that he would never use my loan money to meet their expenses but only his own earnings. He said that his parents needed about $400 monthly for their basic expenses and he wanted to send them at least that much. I told him we'd be lucky to send them half of that, as we have major financial transitions over the next 6-7 years (with me in school, then him finding a job, then us relocating to where I get into residency, then him finding a job again, then him going to law school and me having a baby). I told him we could try to send them about $200-250 a month (but we'd first have to see how much we can spare) and hope that his brother will cover the other half. He told me he had to make sure his family had enough to live on as he'd be a terrible son if he lived here and his parents didn't have enough to eat. He said he didn't want to buy them a Mercedes or help them get rich, but simply to have a little over basic expenses so they can live comfortably. I told him I understood that and that we'd do our best to help them. I showed him a loan repayment calculator online and I think this help him understand things a little better.

When we first started talking yesterday, I was furious and full of accusations. It didn't go well initially, as he was fully in defensive mode and not willing to listen to my side- but simply defending himself. I told him that I wasn't happy with him telling me white lies, as there were a few recent times in which he had changed his story about something. He wanted to know exactly what I thought he was lying about. There were a couple of things in my mind, but I brought up one specific issue. I mentioned that example, to which he got silent and sent me a website from his university proving what he told me was true. I was mortified and felt really bad for accusing him, when I was clearly in the wrong - as what he told me was true. That was just one thing, but after that I didn't dare bring up any other suspected issues of dishonesty - as I was feeling horrible for falsely accusing him on that one issue. The other few things were minor issues (not anything that big), but after what happened with me falsely accusing (ouch!), I think I'll let the other things drop.

Rather than me getting across my concerns about the way things have been with us, he totally got the upperhand and crushed me in the debate. I wasn't trying for it to be a 'debate' - I wanted us to try to understand each other's perspectives, but instead things turned into a debate with him having a substantiative counterargument for every point I made. On one hand I was impressed - as I never knew my husband had such great debate skills and would make a good lawyer. He was really good! On the other hand, I was saddened that I wasn't able to convey my concerns to him at all. I was the one feeling apologetic instead.

So to those who think I should have been the one to put my foot down,... it didn't happen, as I ended up being the one feeling remorseful for the accusations, as he helped me to see his point on things. I felt like I was the one being unfair to him. Although it was nice for me to understand him better, I don't think he got to see my perspective better at all.

We talked again today and had a nice time chatting. He didn't ask for any apologies, but was back to joking and teasing me again, and telling me he loved me. Things are pretty much back to normal now... though I suspect he might hold on to residual grudges for all the accusations I hurled at him yesterday, which are still unresolved as usual.

I am deeply grateful for all of the responses in this thread, and I'll try to do a better job of bringing up these issues to him.... hopefully in a more balanced and less accusatory way next time.

Edited April 1, 2012 by rkk1

[Jo&Si 9]

Well, I have one more comment to the OP.

Take yer numerous posts of issues over these last 3 months,

and show them all (including our responses)

to your father.

Ask him for his input.

DO NOT have a convo with Dad, until he's read all.

Then have a long, long convo with Dad, get his input.

Then let us know what Dad says, aye?

Very good advice!!!

[rlogan 2,036]

In no way am I giving the OP's husband a pass on acting the way he is...but...I think there needs to be an outline drawn of when and how the transition into a healthy relationship both parties will enjoy will happen.

If it isn't a healthy relationship, you don't get married.

[Jo&Si 9]

Thanks once again to everyone who has responded, and a special thanks to Vanessa&Tony for taking the time to reply to my last post point-by-point!

We talked for a few hours yesterday (even after my last post). We couldn't compromise at all on the family visits issue, but as far as the money situation, I did get him to think about things. He did promise that he would never use my loan money to meet their expenses but only his own earnings. He said that his parents needed about $400 monthly for their basic expenses and he wanted to send them at least that much. I told him we'd be lucky to send them half of that, as we have major financial transitions over the next 6-7 years (with me in school, then him finding a job, then us relocating to where I get into residency, then him finding a job again, then him going to law school and me having a baby). I told him we could try to send them about $200-250 a month (but we'd first have to see how much we can spare) and hope that his brother will cover the other half. He told me he had to make sure his family had enough to live on as he'd be a terrible son if he lived here and his parents didn't have enough to eat. He said he didn't want to buy them a Mercedes or help them get rich, but simply to have a little over basic expenses so they can live comfortably. I told him I understood that and that we'd do our best to help them. I showed him a loan repayment calculator online and I think this help him understand things a little better.

When we first started talking yesterday, I was furious and full of accusations. It didn't go well initially, as he was fully in defensive mode and not willing to listen to my side- but simply defending himself. I told him that I wasn't happy with him telling me white lies, as there were a few recent times in which he had changed his story about something. He wanted to know exactly what I thought he was lying about. There were a couple of things in my mind, but I brought up one specific issue. I mentioned that example, to which he got silent and sent me a website from his university proving what he told me was true. I was mortified and felt really bad for accusing him, when I was clearly in the wrong - as what he told me was true. That was just one thing, but after that I didn't dare bring up any other suspected issues of dishonesty - as I was feeling horrible for falsely accusing him on that one issue. The other few things were minor issues (not anything that big), but after what happened with me falsely accusing (ouch!), I think I'll let the other things drop.

Rather than me getting across my concerns about the way things have been with us, he totally got the upperhand and crushed me in the debate. I wasn't trying for it to be a 'debate' - I wanted us to try to understand each other's perspectives, but instead things turned into a debate with him having a substantiative counterargument for every point I made. On one hand I was impressed - as I never knew my husband had such great debate skills and would make a good lawyer. He was really good! On the other hand, I was saddened that I wasn't able to convey my concerns to him at all. I was the one feeling apologetic instead.

So to those who think I should have been the one to put my foot down,... it didn't happen, as I ended up being the one feeling remorseful for the accusations, as he helped me to see his point on things. I felt like I was the one being unfair to him. Although it was nice for me to understand him better, I don't think he got to see my perspective better at all.

We talked again today and had a nice time chatting. He didn't ask for any apologies, but was back to joking and teasing me again, and telling me he loved me. Things are pretty much back to normal now... though I suspect he might hold on to residual grudges for all the accusations I hurled at him yesterday, which are still unresolved as usual.

I am deeply grateful for all of the responses in this thread, and I'll try to do a better job of bringing up these issues to him.... hopefully in a more balanced and less accusatory way next time.

I am glad you got to talk...but the way it turns, look like he is a good manipulative man... I hope I am wrong...I think Darnell gave you a very a good advice. Good luck!

[rkk1 34]

Thanks Darnell, for the interesting perspective. I'm curious though - why do you suggest I talk to my dad? (I'm just wondering.)

I told my sister a bit about the issue the other day (before my husband and I talked about all this.) I typically try to avoid saying too much to family about our issues, as I don't want to bias their opinion of him... just as I don't want his family to turn against me because I have different cultural perspectives than they do. Thus I usually don't say much, though now and again a bit comes out. However, I have talked to a counselor/therapist about issues with my husband, as she is a neutral 3rd party. She herself is an American married to an Indian man who she has a good relationship with (though he is from a different part of India, and they met in the US). But still she has some understanding of relationship dynamics of being with someone who grew up in a different country.

[Divs 35]

The plain fact of the matter is that this behavior IS normal for some - not all, but enough that I personally know at least 2 guys who have pulled this kind of ####### on their Indian-born wives. For a lot of American women, they get far enough into the relationship where these things get discussed or they notice the bizarre actions of the guy and either run for it or they put their foot down.

Some men respond. Some don't.

There is nothing in her story that I haven't heard before - [even the car thing, even the friends spouting off about dowry, even the apron string issues [ESPECIALLY THIS]] - to varying degrees, across a pretty sizable amount of the socio-economic spectrum in India.

I know there are people with borderline personality disorders, narcissism, etc etc out there - but I have seen and heard so much of this soooooooooo many time with Indian men in their 20s [especially mid to late 20s, some even early 30s]. So much so, that if all of these Indian men truly have these disorders, WHO should be doing a study!!! It's got to be environmental - hence cultural. Being a boy growing up in India IS all about ME, ME, ME.

Can't agree with you on that. Like I said, I've lived in India all my life, and I've come across all types of men and women. While probably in the villages out here, for a boy it might be all about ME, ME, ME, it definitely is not in the cities. And this isn't just about men. I've seen the very same issues with plenty of women too. And mind you, this is not just about Indian men/women. This sort of behavioral pattern can be seen the world over.

Does that mean she needs to lie down and take it? No. Does it mean that all Indian guys are like that? No.

But, there really and truly is a culture component to this. Someone mentioned immediate family is only your spouse and your kids. That is not true in any South Asian community/country. It's just not. Parents and siblings [especially to the eldest son] will ALWAYS be immediate family also. This is ingrained in the culture. You can argue all you want about how it shouldn't be the case, that the Bible talks about cleaving, that in this country he needs to buck up and take it like a man...but for his entire life it has been reinforced again and again that this is what family is, it's in his colony, in his village, in his extended family, reinforced on Indian tv shows, Indian cinema that living this way is perfectly normal. That's not to say that there are families that don't do this - there are, and many at that, but joint living and continuing an immediate family relationship with parents and siblings as an adult is normal there.

I think one of the sticky points in this - and I don't really know, just a guess - is that he figured it would all be fine in the end because she is of Indian heritage herself. What could be more perfect than a smart, successful American woman who "gets" Indian culture? That somehow he could say the magic words that would end up letting him have his cake and eat it too - because she "knows how it is/should be".

If she wants to continue with her marriage with out being miserable and second guessing his every move he needs to show he can keep his word. He needs be upfront and specific about how he is handling his family and not argue semantics [like with the visit topic where he argued that he didn't "agree" to her two week offer - he just chose to say nothing and that that isn't really an agreement according to his logic].

Oh, and that clingy, multiple marriage proposal asking stuff - seen it too. Some areas [geographical/social/religious] have such repressed sexual/relationship freedoms that the men are a MESS. I had to tell an NRI friend that the texts he was getting back from one chick should actually be taken literally. She was accusing him of stalking - he couldn't get why. Could NOT understand that the smothering actions, constant contact, etc was annoying to the woman he was pursuing. He was a smart guy who spent his entire life studying, testing, studying more and when in the US just didn't understand how to have a normal/everyday relationship. The thought that a girl would even let him take her to the movies was so monumental, he didn't know what to do with himself and resorted to weird clingy-ness. He was 28 at the time. Constant texting/facebook messages/ims are something my 13 year old nephew does with his "girlfriend", this guy was about the same "relationship" age.

Anyway - of the 2 guys who were like this, 1 ruined his marriage. The other grew a set, grew up and came to reasonable compromises about a lot [except his momma - Indian men and their mommas ].

Taking a step back a re-evaluating what is what may be a very smart thing to do...

[Marlon&Fallon 13]

Thanks Darnell, for the interesting perspective. I'm curious though - why do you suggest I talk to my dad? (I'm just wondering.)

I told my sister a bit about the issue the other day (before my husband and I talked about all this.) I typically try to avoid saying too much to family about our issues, as I don't want to bias their opinion of him... just as I don't want his family to turn against me because I have different cultural perspectives than they do. Thus I usually don't say much, though now and again a bit comes out. However, I have talked to a counselor/therapist about issues with my husband, as she is a neutral 3rd party. She herself is an American married to an Indian man who she has a good relationship with (though he is from a different part of India, and they met in the US). But still she has some understanding of relationship dynamics of being with someone who grew up in a different country.

If you don't mind, could you please share what the counselor had to say about the issue with you and your husband? I would really like to hear it.

[rlogan 2,036]

I showed him a loan repayment calculator online and I think this help him understand things a little better.

A virtual CPA that needs to be shown a loan repayment calculator? Something wrong with this picture. It's like showing a mechanic what a pair of plyers is.

Rather than me getting across my concerns about the way things have been with us, he totally got the upperhand and crushed me in the debate. I wasn't trying for it to be a 'debate' - I wanted us to try to understand each other's perspectives, but instead things turned into a debate with him having a substantiative counterargument for every point I made. On one hand I was impressed - as I never knew my husband had such great debate skills and would make a good lawyer. He was really good! On the other hand, I was saddened that I wasn't able to convey my concerns to him at all. I was the one feeling apologetic instead.

Textbook manipulative triumph(again).

Being impressed with your manipulator's skill in denying your feelings is sort of like admiring how Jeffry Dahmer cut up his corpses. He probably got pretty good at it, and in isolation yeah it can be considered a skill I suppose. But when you open your eyes to what he is actually doing then it is more of an evil genius to be abhorred and not admired.

To get proficient at invalidating someone's feelings, all you need is zero empathy for them. That's what you are admiring in your husband, and why you came away sad. A person with empathy will tell you themselves how you feel and they'll do it correctly whether they have a different opinion from you or not.

What is classic about this situation is you put so much weight on what he says instead of what he does. If he just keeps repeating "I love you", he can get away with murder.

Edited April 1, 2012 by rlogan

[Divs 35]

A virtual CPA that needs to be shown a loan repayment calculator? Something wrong with this picture. It's like showing a mechanic what a pair of plyers is.

Textbook manipulative triumph(again).

Being impressed with your manipulator's skill in denying your feelings is sort of like admiring how Jeffry Dahmer cut up his corpses. He probably got pretty good at it, and in isolation yeah it can be considered a skill I suppose. But when you open your eyes to what he is actually doing then it is more of an evil genius to be abhorred and not admired.

To get proficient at invalidating someone's feelings, all you need is zero empathy for them. That's what you are admiring in your husband, and why you came away sad. A person with empathy will tell you themselves how you feel and they'll do it correctly whether they have a different opinion from you or not.

What is classic about this situation is you put so much weight on what he says instead of what he does. If he just keeps repeating "I love you", he can get away with murder.

I'm with you on this.

[Xanax 349]

I'm really glad you have seen a counselor. Have you considered couples counselling? You could do an over the phone session!

Is it possible that he could come to the US for 1-6 months and you could try living together and see a counsellor then?

Trying to live together might put things into perspective for your husband and or it might prove that your differences are too great to overcome or that you can work through things.

The problem is, once he is here through the CR-1, you could be somewhat "trapped" on the hook financially or stuck in an unhealthy relationship.

[Klaxi 9]

Textbook manipulative triumph(again).

My thoughts exactly! Classic manipulator. If you make a statement, it will be turned around.

Emotional manipulators are excellent guilt mongers.

They take no responsibility for themselves or their behavior - it is always about what everyone else has "done to them". One of the easiest ways to spot an emotional manipulator is that they often attempt to establish intimacy through the early sharing of deeply personal information that is generally of the "hook-you-in-and-make-you-sorry-for-me" variety. Initially you may perceive this type of person as very sensitive, emotionally open and maybe a little vulnerable.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Klaxi

[Divs 35]

I can see T R O U B L E spelled in big and bold letters here, sister. He's just gonna take you on a guilt trip, and five years down the line, you're gonna be left wondering what the hell hit you, if not earlier! my thoughts to you? Run while you can!

Edited April 1, 2012 by Divs

[Divs 35]

I can see T R O U B L E spelled in big and bold letters here, sister. He's just gonna take you on a guilt trip, and five years down the line, you're gonna be left wondering what the hell hit you, if not earlier! my thoughts to you? Run while you can!

That should read my advice