sending money to his family (long)

[rkk1 34]

Also, before all this happened, I was really struggling with feelings of doubt for my husband. I had even mentioned divorce to him. He told me that if I really wanted a divorce that he would grant me that without any contesting from his side and would sign any paper I requested. (He also did this before our wedding, as he signed the pre-nup without even reading it, as he said he trusted me fully.) I admit that I was pretty touched by this. I was worried that he might try to complicate a divorce if we ended up going that route, but he has told me that there would not be any problems from his side if that's what I decided I wanted. He has told me that he does really want to try to make this marriage work if we can.

Some days ago I sent him some information about manipulation, as I told him that he exhibits some of the qualities listed. At first he was really hurt that I called him manipulative. But now he says he's willing to introspect into himself about how to make our marriage work. He'll be at my counseling session this week (via webcam for him) as he says he wants to save the marriage.

Edited April 15, 2012 by rkk1

[VanessaTony 3,567]

My husband also took a step further and had a long talk with his brother about financial stuff. He told his brother that he wasn't sure if we'd be able to send them money home every month. Although it doesn't seem my father-in-law is planning on working, my brother-in-law said that he would make ends meet. He was talking to my husband about ways he could increase his income to take care of their family expenses. So it looks like they may not expect us to send money home each month after all.

I'm sorry but I don't believe it. I don't believe that he would have these huge arguments with you without first investigating his options. It's just too convenient that he's "found a way" after he said he was thinking of not coming at all and you didn't beg and plead for him to change his mind. I would be wary but I hope it's true.

Have you ever heard of a post-nuptial agreement? I would speak to a lawyer about getting your husband to sign something that irrefutably gives up ANY rights to ANY of your parents money (specifically that retirement account you mentioned) and also sets out some financial guidelines for your relationship (such as admitting that he has ties to SOME of your student loan debt). It would be interesting to see whether he's okay with signing such a thing.

[rkk1 34]

So that you everybody who has been so kind to respond here. This issue of sending money has finally been resolved now. As I said earlier, I will proceed very cautiously. I still would like my marriage to work, but until I have even further confidence I will not proceed with the NVC stage. The last few days have left me feeling much better about my husband's sincerity; however, I will still proceed slowly and with eyes wide open in this (as I agree there are red flags that need to be watched out for). Thanks again!

[rkk1 34]

I'm sorry but I don't believe it. I don't believe that he would have these huge arguments with you without first investigating his options. It's just too convenient that he's "found a way" after he said he was thinking of not coming at all and you didn't beg and plead for him to change his mind. I would be wary but I hope it's true.

Have you ever heard of a post-nuptial agreement? I would speak to a lawyer about getting your husband to sign something that irrefutably gives up ANY rights to ANY of your parents money (specifically that retirement account you mentioned) and also sets out some financial guidelines for your relationship (such as admitting that he has ties to SOME of your student loan debt). It would be interesting to see whether he's okay with signing such a thing.

Thanks Vanessa... I'd be open to looking into these options and seeing if my husband was open to signing such a document. It's something I could pursue to increase confidence about keeping my parents' assets safe.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Also, before all this happened, I was really struggling with feelings of doubt for my husband. I had even mentioned divorce to him. He told me that if I really wanted a divorce that he would grant me that without any contesting from his side and would sign any paper I requested. (He also did this before our wedding, as he signed the pre-nup without even reading it, as he said he trusted me fully.) I admit that I was pretty touched by this. I was worried that he might try to complicate a divorce if we ended up going that route, but he has told me that there would not be any problems from his side if that's what I decided I wanted. He has told me that he does really want to try to make this marriage work if we can.

Some days ago I sent him some information about manipulation, as I told him that he exhibits some of the qualities listed. At first he was really hurt that I called him manipulative. But now he says he's willing to introspect into himself about how to make our marriage work. He'll be at my counseling session this week (via webcam for him) as he says he wants to save the marriage.

I really really really hope he's being honest and that this isn't just another manipulation. He could be trying to call your bluff. He could be saying all the things to help you doubt him less. The proof is only in the happening unfortunately. I hope the counseling session goes well... but unfortunately now that you've mentioned divorce it's hard to believe (for me to believe that is) that he isn't just playing along to get his way instead of actually feeling different. I'm sorry but (for me) there are just too many prior red flags. He's just (in my opinion) changing his tune again to get what he wants, and this is the CR-1 visa so that he has a GC and can then leave you and do what he wants.

I of course hope I'm wrong though.

[rkk1 34]

Vanessa, I really am glad for your counter-perspective. Even though I'm trying to hope for the best, your ideas are still needed. They help me to understand what may possibly go wrong if I proceed in this marriage. I know a lot of people have gotten burned over immigration, and wished that they had only heeded the red flags sooner. I totally get this, and hence I see the need to proceed extremely carefully at this point. I very much hope for our marriage to be a happy one, but at the same time I realize that if I turn a blind eye to the red flags, then I might be on this site writing another sad sob story of being left by him after he comes here (which has unfortunately happened to others). So no proceeding further until my confidence grows. The I-130 won't get approved anyway until August... so right now there is really nothing for us to do other than have time to decide whether we should continue with this relationship or part due to our differences. I feel a lot more convinced that my husband's love for me is genuine, but he still has to show me from his side whether he has sufficient maturity to make this relationship work... as he has often lacked that at times. I'm hoping he can work on his issues and do that.

Thanks again!

[rlogan 2,036]

he signed the pre-nup without even reading it, as he said he trusted me fully.) I admit that I was pretty touched by this. I was worried that he might try to complicate a divorce if we ended up going that route, but he has told me that there would not be any problems from his side if that's what I decided I wanted.

This is a lesson in how hard we can work to frame events the way we want to see them instead of how they are.

He signed the pre-nup because he has no choice, and the slightest moment's thought on what it says is a waste of time. So therefore under the supreme laziness doctrine read not a word of it. Then lie about why he isn't reading it. See how easy it is to proclaim utter devotion? Well no, you can't see that. Heh. I've been there!

So this is an easy one to call. He's going to fake his way through the counseling and he'll fool both the counselor and you. You will immigrate him and your residency is going to occur under the stress of dealing with this manipulative predator. You've told him all the things he needs to concede before you agree to bring him here, and he will agree to just enough of it to convince you to get him here. Not one iota more. He'll extract every last gram of energy from you as an emotional vampire will do.

The rule is you don't marry them quick and then try to fix a marriage that shouldn't have happened. That's how he got married to you in the first place: hurry, hurry, hurry. Even though you had doubts, he manipulated you into doing it. So now he's poised perfectly. Masterful in a way, because he was so outrageous in his behavior that being less outrageous appears to be a big improvement. You'll go for any sop he throws you. But this is not for naught. This is the one that is going to show you to watch what people do instead of listening to what they say. To make sure about them before even getting engaged. Even though your residency is going to be miserable and you will suffer a long trauma and depression at the hands of this man, you will survive and learn.

The parents too - you let them run your life too, just so long as they give you a reason. I hope I don't come off as disrespectful for saying it frankly because there isn't any disrespect intended.

[rlogan 2,036]

So no proceeding further until my confidence grows. The I-130 won't get approved anyway until August...

Another lesson in framing things different from how they are. You are on a runaway train screaming down the tracks while saying you are not proceeding any further. You got on this train against your better judgement, and when the approval comes through you are going to say look at how I have invested all this time, money, and energy into this thing and despite having reservations about it to try to make it work. Since you already got married and already submitted all that paperwork. And look how he is improving. This one is a lock. He's in!

[rkk1 34]

You may be 100% correct, rlogan. This may all be a fraud. And if you end up being right, I'll certainly come back on this site and commend you all on spotting a fraud... and you can give me the "I told you so!". However, you aren't the one who faces the risk of losing a marriage with someone you love... I do. And that's why I am the one who has to weigh the risks and benefits carefully without making any hasty decisions here. If he ends up being a visa fraud, the American public won't be harmed in any way by him being here, as he is very hardworking (he was top of his law school class, and now the top student in his master's degree). So even if you guys find his intentions towards me questionable, I know he would only be an asset to the American public.

It is not that I'm turning a blind eye to anything that you and others are writing. I'm not at all... I'm reading and thinking through things carefully. It's just that from my side, my options are limited. As I see it, they are:

1. Go through the visa process with him and take the risk of being used for immigration purposes and be left after he gets what he wants.

2. Decide to listen to everyone in this thread and break off the relationship with my husband. And then for the next several years while I look for another husband, continue to second guess myself on whether I made the right choice or not to break up with someone who I loved and who I believed loved me too... only to realize that anybody I end up in a relationship with has plenty of imperfections.

3. Continue to do nothing but just wait and see how things unfold... and continue to watch out for red flags that may arise, before finally choosing option 1 or 2.

Before this thread, I was on path 1. Now I'm on path 3 (with the possibility of diverting to path 1 depending how things go). So this thread was not all for naught, as it helped open my eyes. However, I'm not ready to just throw away my marriage yet, as the pain of spending my life second guessing my decision to break up with a man I love (and whose family I also love) would probably be worse (to me) than the depression I'd feel if he broke up with me after getting here. I don't want to live with the regrets on having thrown away my marriage too fast and be looking back in remorse for not having given him the opportunity to at least try to live together with me and see how things go. Although I acknowledge that I do see red flags and some manipulative qualities in my marriage, I do know that there is a lot of good in my husband, and I have to be more sure that there is no hope for things to improve before I am ready to divorce. I know you feel like you are seeing the writing on the wall with my husband's intentions, but since I have so much more invested here than anyone else, the wall will probably have to start crumbling before I'll willing to get out entirely. I AM willing to leave this marriage though if it becomes more apparent that there is no hope for us.

The main thing I'm struggling with is that there seems to be too much black-and-white thinking here. It seems to be either 'break up with him and end your marriage... or have him come here and destroy your life". Fear mongering and sarcasm aren't going to help me. I wish there was some kind of middle ground like "if you choose to proceed, here are some ideas that can help you safeguard your family's assets and minimize your risk until you are 100% sure that he's here for love and has no other agenda". Those kinds of ideas (like potentially the idea that Vanessa proposed about post-nuptual agreements) would be INCREDIBLY useful to me.

Edited April 15, 2012 by rkk1

[Darnell 8,478]

Vanessa, I really am glad for your counter-perspective. Even though I'm trying to hope for the best, your ideas are still needed. They help me to understand what may possibly go wrong if I proceed in this marriage. I know a lot of people have gotten burned over immigration, and wished that they had only heeded the red flags sooner. I totally get this, and hence I see the need to proceed extremely carefully at this point. I very much hope for our marriage to be a happy one, but at the same time I realize that if I turn a blind eye to the red flags, then I might be on this site writing another sad sob story of being left by him after he comes here (which has unfortunately happened to others). So no proceeding further until my confidence grows. The I-130 won't get approved anyway until August... so right now there is really nothing for us to do other than have time to decide whether we should continue with this relationship or part due to our differences. I feel a lot more convinced that my husband's love for me is genuine, but he still has to show me from his side whether he has sufficient maturity to make this relationship work... as he has often lacked that at times. I'm hoping he can work on his issues and do that.

Thanks again!

Well, it's not just Vanessa.

There are others.

I'm one of those. Now that you've 'made some progress', I invite you to go back over your prior topics and this topic, review my posts to you, in all.

You should be able to glean a commonality...

[rkk1 34]

Yes of course, Darnell. While I may have mentioned the name of specific posters (like Vanessa), I'm no less grateful to you and others who have taken your valuable time to stop and give me your perspectives. Everyone who has stopped in and posted has given me the gift of their time and attention. Even if you think I'm making a huge mistake with bringing my husband here, your feedback is still greatly appreciated. THANK YOU!

Edited April 15, 2012 by rkk1

[Darnell 8,478]

I do suggest you DO review yer stuff, going forward, every few weeks.

You should get some new 'ah-ha!' moments, as yer talking with your counselor, reviewing all that was written to you here.

Hang in there !!

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I do suggest you DO review yer stuff, going forward, every few weeks.

You should get some new 'ah-ha!' moments, as yer talking with your counselor, reviewing all that was written to you here.

Hang in there !!

Agreed. I also like the idea that Rkk had herself where she would have some of the discussions by email. This has often worked for me. There are also recording programs where you can record what's on your screen (so she could record the skype conversations), or she could set up a video camera (discretely) to record the conversations so she can play back over them later so she can see how the conversation went without the emotion of being IN the conversation at the time. We often remember things differently depending on our emotion at the time of them occurring.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Yes of course, Darnell. While I may have mentioned the name of specific posters (like Vanessa), I'm no less grateful to you and others who have taken your valuable time to stop and give me your perspectives. Everyone who has stopped in and posted has given me the gift of their time and attention. Even if you think I'm making a huge mistake with bringing my husband here, your feedback is still greatly appreciated. THANK YOU!

Please see what I wrote to Darnell above.

Even if you do take the chance and bring him here it isn't necessarily a "big mistake". It's risky yes (but as i mentioned earlier there are ways to lessen that risk... at least some of it), and it might end up that he was using you all along, but as you said, a bigger mistake could be not trying without knowing "for sure".

Unfortunately with manipulators (which I truly believe he is, at least in part) we don't know (I've been there) until they play all their cards. We just go on second guessing ourselves and wondering "what if" and thinking we're crazy and even being TOLD we're crazy, we didn't hear right, or remember right, or we're simply making it up so we start to really wonder whether we can trust our own opinion/memory.

I hope the counseling session goes good. Please let us know (if you feel like it)

[Mike B. 231]

You may be 100% correct, rlogan. This may all be a fraud. And if you end up being right, I'll certainly come back on this site and commend you all on spotting a fraud... and you can give me the "I told you so!". However, you aren't the one who faces the risk of losing a marriage with someone you love... I do. And that's why I am the one who has to weigh the risks and benefits carefully without making any hasty decisions here. If he ends up being a visa fraud, the American public won't be harmed in any way by him being here, as he is very hardworking (he was top of his law school class, and now the top student in his master's degree). So even if you guys find his intentions towards me questionable, I know he would only be an asset to the American public.

It is not that I'm turning a blind eye to anything that you and others are writing. I'm not at all... I'm reading and thinking through things carefully. It's just that from my side, my options are limited. As I see it, they are:

1. Go through the visa process with him and take the risk of being used for immigration purposes and be left after he gets what he wants.

2. Decide to listen to everyone in this thread and break off the relationship with my husband. And then for the next several years while I look for another husband, continue to second guess myself on whether I made the right choice or not to break up with someone who I loved and who I believed loved me too... only to realize that anybody I end up in a relationship with has plenty of imperfections.

3. Continue to do nothing but just wait and see how things unfold... and continue to watch out for red flags that may arise, before finally choosing option 1 or 2.

Before this thread, I was on path 1. Now I'm on path 3 (with the possibility of diverting to path 1 depending how things go). So this thread was not all for naught, as it helped open my eyes. However, I'm not ready to just throw away my marriage yet, as the pain of spending my life second guessing my decision to break up with a man I love (and whose family I also love) would probably be worse (to me) than the depression I'd feel if he broke up with me after getting here. I don't want to live with the regrets on having thrown away my marriage too fast and be looking back in remorse for not having given him the opportunity to at least try to live together with me and see how things go. Although I acknowledge that I do see red flags and some manipulative qualities in my marriage, I do know that there is a lot of good in my husband, and I have to be more sure that there is no hope for things to improve before I am ready to divorce. I know you feel like you are seeing the writing on the wall with my husband's intentions, but since I have so much more invested here than anyone else, the wall will probably have to start crumbling before I'll willing to get out entirely. I AM willing to leave this marriage though if it becomes more apparent that there is no hope for us.

The main thing I'm struggling with is that there seems to be too much black-and-white thinking here. It seems to be either 'break up with him and end your marriage... or have him come here and destroy your life". Fear mongering and sarcasm aren't going to help me. I wish there was some kind of middle ground like "if you choose to proceed, here are some ideas that can help you safeguard your family's assets and minimize your risk until you are 100% sure that he's here for love and has no other agenda". Those kinds of ideas (like potentially the idea that Vanessa proposed about post-nuptual agreements) would be INCREDIBLY useful to me.

No offense, but you do understand that even being in a marriage with "some manipulative qualities" is absolutely awful, right? I mean, normal people don't try to "manipulate" theirs spouses at all. You seem to be setting the bar pretty damn low: "He's trying to manipulate me and separate me from my money, but only somewhat." It doesn't really work that way. Being manipulated into something is binary: either you're being manipulated or you're not.

I understand that you want to stay with the person you love, and honestly I don't know what I'd do if I were in your shoes. I'd like to think that I'd dump him immediately, but maybe I wouldn't. Love is a powerful thing. Still, you owe it to yourself to set the bar a lot higher than you are.