Map shows the worst air in America

[xebec 195]

Where has the OP been contrary to the article, specifically power plants? I do not see it. I don't really understand why you are attacking him personally.

Read the OPs post title. Innacurate at best. These are not areas that coincide the "worst air in America," but rather areas that have higher levels of contamination from a particular source.

Another poster then went on to (innacurately of ironically) state that LA must have clean air, which the OP erroneously claimed was the result of some sort of "liberal wisdom." I gave him the benefeit of the doubt by saying he was smarter than that.

I then went on to point out that his factoid.......about certain areas of the country having more pollutants from energy production, werwe only part of the story. California has the dirtiest cities in the country, pollution wise, despite having refused to build these plants inside the state. The OP reacted in a typical way, dismissing clear facts as irrelevant conspiracy theory. That isn't personal?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

C'mon Fancypants.....you are smarter than this....

Your giving him far too much credit.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Read the OPs post title. Innacurate at best. These are not areas that coincide the "worst air in America," but rather areas that have higher levels of contamination from a particular source.

Another poster then went on to (innacurately of ironically) state that LA must have clean air, which the OP erroneously claimed was the result of some sort of "liberal wisdom." I gave him the benefeit of the doubt by saying he was smarter than that.

I then went on to point out that his factoid.......about certain areas of the country having more pollutants from energy production, werwe only part of the story. California has the dirtiest cities in the country, pollution wise, despite having refused to build these plants inside the state. The OP reacted in a typical way, dismissing clear facts as irrelevant conspiracy theory. That isn't personal?

LA's air is cleaner today than it was 40 years ago, thanks to stricter regulations and standards. However, air pollution is still a problem coming mostly from vehicle exhaust. But that's beside the point of OP and that is that traditional coal plants have and continue to contribute significantly to air pollution. The coal lobby doesn't want you to know that and they've got their buddies in Washington trying to block any nationwide regulations similar to California's, and go as far as to say that coal plant pollutants are harmless or insignificant.

We should look to California as proof that reducing coal plant emissions, we can significantly reduce air pollution. End of story.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Mister Fancypants

[luckytxn 2,264]

What we can look to California is that best to buy your energy from out of state.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The best part is that Los Angles purchases 40% of their electricity from the two dirtiest coal gen. plants in the nation (out of state of course).

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The best part is that Los Angles purchases 40% of their electricity from the two dirtiest coal gen. plants in the nation (out of state of course).

Pulling statistics out of your ####### now?

Electricity (2009)

In-State Generation

Natural Gas 56.7%

Nuclear 15.3%

Large Hydro 12.2%

Coal 1.8%

Renewable 13.9%

http://energyalmanac...gy_sources.html

Look at poor 'ol coal. And you wonder why the coal lobby presses on to paint California negatively when it comes to energy. Because they have sh!t for market share. Boohoo...cry me a fvckin river.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Mister Fancypants

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

http://www.labeyondcoal.org/facts.html

Los Angeles gets more power from dirty and dangerous coal than any other source - roughly 40% of our electricity. Getting power from coal is damaging to public health, the environment and Los Angeles Department of Water and Power (LADWP) customer’s pocketbooks. We import our coal from Arizona and Utah, where we buy power from two of the largest and dirtiest plants in the country. Combined, these plants emit nearly 36 million tons of climate-disrupting pollution every year - as much as roughly 6 million cars. These plants are also significant sources of mercury, ozone, and other hazardous air pollutants. In fact, the Navajo Generating Station in Arizona has ranked as high as third in the nation in ozone pollution in recent years.

As long as Los Angeles maintains its relationship with these two plants, not only will we continue to damage the climate and outsource a major public health threat, but we limit our city’s opportunity to grab hold of the burgeoning clean energy economy. In recent years, $9 billion dollars in green venture capital has poured into the state following the approval of California’s Global Warming Solutions Act (AB32). It is imperative that our City’s leaders adopt policies that direct this influx of investment towards Los Angeles. Clean energy policies like the proposed solar feed-in-tariff or efficiency programs like home weatherization are excellent examples of the local policies that can benefit the Los Angeles economy while supporting our environmental goals. However, so long as 39% of Los Angeles’ power comes from out-of-state coal plants, a structural barrier to a clean energy economy will block progress in LA.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Coal is 1.8% of the total energy used for electricity in the entire state, so saying that LA uses 40% of their energy from out of state coal is misleading.

69% of electricity is generated in state.

California is one of the leading states on clean energy. That's 98.2% of their electricity coming from cleaner sources.

Boohoo for the coal lobby. They lost. Time to take their ball and go home.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Coal is 1.8% of the total energy used for electricity in the entire state, so saying that LA uses 40% of their energy from out of state coal is misleading.

69% of electricity is generated in state.

California is one of the leading states on clean energy. That's 98.2% of their electricity coming from cleaner sources.

Boohoo for the coal lobby. They lost. Time to take their ball and go home.

If only you could master the English language. I never ever once said that California gets 40% of their electricity from dirty coal plants, I said LA did. And yes LA is in California last time I checked. In fact I do believe it's the largest city in that state. Dirty Californians using dirty filthy coal generated electricity.

Oh and btw...California is going to take a hit when Idaho, Washington and Oregon shuts them down on electricity from the Columbia River. Yeppers it's in the works. They want to get rid of some of the dams on that river to save the salmon runs so in order to produce enough juice for themselves they have to cut California off. NP seeing how California has no right to that juice anyways. It's nowhere near that river.

HA HA

Edited March 29, 2012 by Why_Me

[one...two...tree 2,762]

If only you could master the English language. I never ever once said that California gets 40% of their electricity from dirty coal plants, I said LA did. And yes LA is in California last time I checked. In fact I do believe it's the largest city in that state. Dirty Californians using dirty filthy coal generated electricity.

Oh and btw...California is going to take a hit when Washington and Oregon shuts them down on electricity from the Columbia River. Yeppers it's in the works. They want to get rid of some of the dams on that river to save the salmon runs so in order to produce enough juice for themselves they have to cut California off. NP seeing how California has no right to that juice anyways. It's nowhere near that river.

HA HA

You're being obtuse by missing the bigger picture and that is that California has almost completely phased out coal while still producing a majority of their own clean energy. Can they do more? Sure.

And speaking of Washington and Oregon, you wanna guess where they get their energy from?

[luckytxn 2,264]

Ya'll are talking about two different things. The kid says California and the Alaskan is talking Los Angeles.

(Reuters) - Los Angeles will eliminate the use of electricity made from coal by 2020, replacing it with power from cleaner renewable energy sources, Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa said.

Consumers of the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, the largest city-owned utility in the United States with 1.45 million electricity customers, will see higher power bills in the fight against climate change, he added in his inaugural speech for his second four-year term as mayor on Wednesday.

California does not have any coal-fired power plants, a leading contributor to greenhouse gas pollution, but the LADWP now gets 40 percent of its electricity from coal plants outside the state.

"LADWP will deliver 40 percent renewable power, with the remainder coming from natural gas, nuclear, and large hydroelectric," said Villaraigosa.

Coal and natural gas-fired power now account for 76 percent of the electricity delivered by the LADWP. By 2020, the LADWP expects to cut its carbon emissions by up to 60 percent from 1990 levels, according to the mayor's office.

Villaraigosa said the LADWP will meet its goal of getting 20 percent of its power from renewables by 2010.

"We applaud Mayor Villaraigosa's bold decision to move Los Angeles beyond coal," said Bruce Nilles, director of the Sierra Club's efforts to end coal-fired power plants. "The decision to replace coal with cleaner energy alternatives is key to boosting job creation and economic growth."

The LADWP also wants to cut overall electricity use by 1 percent a year for the next 10 years, Freeman said, through energy efficiency.

On Thursday, Deputy Mayor David Freeman said the LADWP will continue to use power from the coal-fired 2,250-megawatt Navajo Generating Station in Arizona until 2019 when its current contract expires. It takes 21.2 percent of the plant's output.

Freeman, the one-time head of the federal Tennessee Valley Authority, said negotiations have not yet begun on how and when the LADWP will leave its contract as lead owner of the 1,800-megawatt coal-fired Intermountain plant in Utah.

It takes 44.6 percent of the output of Intermountain in a contract that extends to 2026.

Together, Navajo -- 477 MW -- and Intermountain -- 803 MW -- can deliver as much as 1,280 MW of power to Los Angeles.

RATES TO RISE

Villaraigosa and Freeman said the elimination of coal-fired power will also mean higher electricity rates. LADWP customers pay an average of about 12 cents per kilowatt-hour.

Freeman said eliminating power from coal will one day increase rates but they will remain competitive with the 15.5 cents per kwh of the average Southern California Edison customer. SCE, a unit of Edison International, has nearly 4.9 million power customers and covers Los Angeles County outside of the city of Los Angeles.

The Navajo plant can deliver power at 3 cents per kwh, and the Intermountain power is between 4 to 5 cents per kwh.

Freeman said that coal power costs will rise as rules limiting carbon dioxide, including a cap-and-trade system, are implemented.

But "costs to society" such as higher medical bills for lung-related diseases, including asthma, will drop.

"The rates are going to go up," said Freeman. "There is no way you can bring in renewable energy and not have some rate impact when you replace coal. But the value to society even aside from global warming is going to be positive."

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

You're being obtuse by missing the bigger picture and that is that California has almost completely phased out coal while still producing a majority of their own clean energy. Can they do more? Sure.

And speaking of Washington and Oregon, you wanna guess where they get their energy from?

Mainly hydroelectric and coal gen. Lots of rivers and coal gen plants. They don't get it from California and California is about to be cut off from the juice they buy from the Bonneville Power Company aka Columbia River.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

I think California should make a law as to where every citizen there has to walk around with a solar panel on their head, and two panels for all illegals. That might help them with their energy problems.

And nuclear? OMG California is using nuclear power! Do you know how hard it is to dispose of the nuclear waste? Bad bad bad...for shame!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Sounds like the coal lobby needs a shoulder to cry on.

[MyLittlePony 340]

Lets all go in the dark now rip down the nuclear and power plants.