Fox News Readers: Trayvon Martin A ‘Little Thug Ghetto Monkey.’

[james&olya 1,121]

point taken. however, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty by a jury of their peers?

no one claimed that. i will claim, however, that said permit holder has had a background check by the state.

And said background check may be worth slightly more than the paper on which it is printed in proving you are responsible!

I agree completely with innocent until proven guilty! And I am very aware, as most thinking people are, that this principle results in a significant number of actual criminals going free, with 'clean' records, only because the proof of their guilt was not strong enough. My point is that absence of a 'record' is not proof of not having committed crimes!

[natty bumppo 297]

And said background check may be worth slightly more than the paper on which it is printed in proving you are responsible!

I agree completely with innocent until proven guilty! And I am very aware, as most thinking people are, that this principle results in a significant number of actual criminals going free, with 'clean' records, only because the proof of their guilt was not strong enough. My point is that absence of a 'record' is not proof of not having committed crimes!

promoting the concept of thought-police

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

As opposed to, say, 1991 when crime was skyrocketing out of control?

Violent crime rates dropped in FL starting in the late 1990's. Stand your ground came into effect in 2005. Crime rates continue to drop. Stands to reason that stand your gorund has nothing to do with that drop. It was already occuring for at least 7 years prior to the law coming into effect.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

We aren't more civilized. You'd be foolish to think so. We just don't interact with other people as much as we used to.

Less people interaction = less chance of something bad happening.

TV, Internet, Video Games, Cell Phones, etc....

Human beings are still the same animals they have always been...

I think the larger point that was made is that violent crime rates started to decline long before stand your ground laws were passed. The passing of these laws has nothing to do with violent crime rates dropping. Maybe we're all animals. But then, why would you want animals to carry guns?

[slim 1,525]

And said background check may be worth slightly more than the paper on which it is printed in proving you are responsible!

I agree completely with innocent until proven guilty! And I am very aware, as most thinking people are, that this principle results in a significant number of actual criminals going free, with 'clean' records, only because the proof of their guilt was not strong enough. My point is that absence of a 'record' is not proof of not having committed crimes!

The burden of proof is on the state. The burden of defending yourself against crime is your own responsibility. As such, citizens are permitted to conceal weapons so they can better fend off attackers.

A background check shouldn't be a requirement because it's not up to the government to check our rights. It's up to us to exercise them. Government's job is not to restrict us. Where folks get confused is they believe government is supposed to guarantee our safety. It's not. We the people are supposed to guarantee our own safety.

Violent crime rates dropped in FL starting in the late 1990's. Stand your ground came into effect in 2005. Crime rates continue to drop. Stands to reason that stand your gorund has nothing to do with that drop. It was already occuring for at least 7 years prior to the law coming into effect.

Then how can you argue it's a bad thing? If crime continues to drop - and folks are better able to defend themselves - then how is that a negative?

I think the larger point that was made is that violent crime rates started to decline long before stand your ground laws were passed. The passing of these laws has nothing to do with violent crime rates dropping. Maybe we're all animals. But then, why would you want animals to carry guns?

By that same rationale we don't need gun control laws then. Because crime dropped anyway.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Then how can you argue it's a bad thing? If crime continues to drop - and folks are better able to defend themselves - then how is that a negative?

Because since 'stand your ground' took effect, homicides have gone up while violent crime overall has gone down. Homicides were on a declining path along with other violent crimes up until 'stand your ground' became law. How are more homicides a good thing?

[slim 1,525]

Because since 'stand your ground' took effect, homicides have gone up while violent crime overall has gone down. Homicides were on a declining path along with other violent crimes up until 'stand your ground' became law. How are more homicides a good thing?

It's good because folks who attempt to victimize others can no longer do so.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

It's good because folks who attempt to victimize others can no longer do so.

How do you figure? You have more wannabe cops out there looking to gun down some unsuspecting kid that they don't want walking down the street in their neighborhoods. So much for the right to due process and the right to face your accusers in open court: How does your perception of your second amendment rights trump the rest of the Constitution?

Edited March 28, 2012 by ☼

[Harsh_77 718]

How do you figure? You have more wannabe cops out there looking to gun down some unsuspecting kid that they don't want walking down the street in their neighborhoods. So much for the right to due process and the right to face your accusers in open court: How does your perception of your second amendment rights trump the rest of the Constitution?

That has nothing to do with CCL of CCW or open carry.

If someone attacked you would you not defend yourself?

Dont jump to conclusion it was some kid walking down the street with candy and ice tea, police has not disclosed the complete details and on top of it there was a witness who saw the complete incident and his account matched zimmerman's account.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

That has nothing to do with CCL of CCW or open carry.

If someone attacked you would you not defend yourself?

Dont jump to conclusion it was some kid walking down the street with candy and ice tea, police has not disclosed the complete details and on top of it there was a witness who saw the complete incident and his account matched zimmerman's account.

When does the deceased child get his day in court? Mr. Zimmerman hunted him down and shot him with a weapon he should not have been carrying as a member of a neighborhood watch. How is that self-defense?

George Zimmerman not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization

When 28-year-old George Zimmerman was discovered by Sanford, Florida police standing over the body of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they accepted Zimmerman's claim that he killed in self-defense as a neighborhood watch captain. Now, through a statement released by the National Sheriffs' Association (NSA) -- the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch -- it has been revealed that Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by the organization. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.

"In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket," Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens' Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. "Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon."

Despite this, Zimmerman admitted that he had fired a weapon on the night of the incident. In addition, the non-emergency call Zimmerman placed on February 26 before the shooting revealed he had been pursuing Martin by car before accosting the youth on foot -- all direct violations of Neighborhood Watch policies.

"The alleged action of a 'self-appointed neighborhood watchman' last month in Sanford, FL significantly contradicts the principles of the Neighborhood Watch Program," NSA Executive Director Aaron D. Kennard, Sheriff (ret.) said in the press statement. "NSA has no information indicating the community where the incident occurred has ever even registered with the NSA Neighborhood Watch program."

The USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch Program manual advises volunteers about how to notice basic things about persons deemed to be suspicious such as height, weight, style of dress, and hair color. Local law enforcement agents also work with official groups to tailor specifications concerning how to discern potential criminal activity depending on the particular communities they are in. In this way, Neighborhood Watch has assured theGrio that the potential for racial profiling is curtailed. In Zimmerman's case, he would have recognized that Trayvon Martin was a non-suspicious part of the citizenry had he received proper training. The complex where he was killed is middle class and mixed race.

http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php

[xebec 195]

When does the deceased child get his day in court? Mr. Zimmerman hunted him down and shot him with a weapon he should not have been carrying as a member of a neighborhood watch. How is that self-defense?

The "for the children" argument, unsubstantiated claims, and personal opinion all rolled into two short sentences. Very impressive.

[xebec 195]

Because since 'stand your ground' took effect, homicides have gone up while violent crime overall has gone down. Homicides were on a declining path along with other violent crimes up until 'stand your ground' became law. How are more homicides a good thing?

You have evidence of a causal link between no requirement to retreat legisaltion and increases homicide rates? You seem to imply that you do....

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That has nothing to do with CCL of CCW or open carry.

If someone attacked you would you not defend yourself?

Dont jump to conclusion it was some kid walking down the street with candy and ice tea, police has not disclosed the complete details and on top of it there was a witness who saw the complete incident and his account matched zimmerman's account.

Packing a gun, as argued by the gun lobby and its supporters, is suppose to be a way of protecting oneself, not to give license to paranoid poosies looking to engage someone in an altercation where they get they then get to justify using lethal force. Zimmerman pursued Martin - he himself admitted so. According to Martin's girlfriend, who was on the cell phone with him at the time of the altercation, Zimmerman was acting peculiar by continuously watching Martin, so Martin starting walking away from the direction of Zimmerman then ran. That's when Zimmerman chased and cornered him. According to her, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman replied by asking him what he was doing there. Sounds like someone pretending to be a cop. Zimmerman ignored the directions of the 911 dispatcher, disregarded standard neighborhood watch rules, didn't bother to even be recognized as a neighborhood watchman, and instigated the whole thing.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Mister Fancypants

[SMOKE 1,426]

We aren't more civilized. You'd be foolish to think so. We just don't interact with other people as much as we used to.

Less people interaction = less chance of something bad happening.

TV, Internet, Video Games, Cell Phones, etc....

Human beings are still the same animals they have always been...

i'm more civilized. i like to get piss drunk on wine more often than beer now. 10 years ago, i never drank wine.

[xebec 195]

Packing a gun, as argued by the gun lobby and its supporters, is suppose to be a way of protecting oneself, not to give license to paranoid poosies looking to engage someone in an altercation where they get they then get to justify using lethal force. Zimmerman pursued Martin - he himself admitted so. According to Martin's girlfriend, who was on the cell phone with him at the time of the altercation, Zimmerman was acting peculiar by continuously watching Martin, so Martin starting walking away from the direction of Zimmerman then ran. That's when Zimmerman chased and cornered him. According to her, Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him and Zimmerman replied by asking him what he was doing there. Sounds like someone pretending to be a cop. Zimmerman ignored the directions of the 911 dispatcher, disregarded standard neighborhood watch rules, didn't bother to even be recognized as a neighborhood watchman, and instigated the whole thing.

That doesn't square with the police report, so maybe the facts are still in dispute? Does it sound plausible to you that a short, overweight guy, ten years older than Martin could chase Martin down and "corner him" in the open streets of a residential neighborhood? But since this is the interpretation of MARTIN'S GIRLFRIEND, Mister Fancypants now has a body of unimpeachable fact with which to make a final judgement.....lol. A more plausible scenario is found in the police report, indicating that martin, in fact, initiated an assault on Zimmerman as he returned to his vehicle. http://miami.cbslocal.com/2012/03/26/source-offers-newspaper-new-details-of-zimmermans-self-defense-claim/

Pretending to be a cop? Get a grip.....people have every right to be vigilant in securing their own neighborhood. I can certainly ask a stranger in my neighborhood- one I deemed was suspicious certainly- what their business is. It is perfectly reasonable to follow them as well... and if someone physically assaulted me for this, then self-defence certainly could come into play. IF Zimmerman initiated a physical altercation, then his case is much weaker.....but you are only speculating and cherry-picking the accounts.

Edited March 28, 2012 by xebec